Welcome Welcome National Draft Pick #13 - Jordan Gallucci

[beartoo]

This was also suggested by Paul Roos on "On the Couch" last night. He felt that Gooch plus our pick 8 and 13 could get us pick one from Carlton. Question is, is it too high a price to pay for pick one.

Far too high a price.

 

[Morning_Fog]

Who knows? Do you think he'll be worth less?

He's spent two years on our list struggling to get picked, and now he's just started playing decent footy. Obviously his trade value is set to rise.

No, I think our pick at pick 10/12 and Gullucci for pick 4/5 is about right.

I rate the kid but think he is expendable to allow us to target the right player.

Now, it would be ridiculous to think we would trade him if we had a pick around 7 or 8 to simpy upgrade 2 or 3 picks.

EDIT: I just went and checked the AFL draft value points. Pick 5 is worth 1878 points and pick 12 is worth 1268 points meaning using my assessment, Jordan Gullicci would be valued about 610 points sitting somewhere around pick 31. If we only receive pick 31, I would be massively annoyed. Therefore, I change my assessment and wouldn’t trade him unless the trade become far more even and fair.

 

[crowsup]

That's not correct.

We are very good at developing players, and Doedee is a perfect example of it

Of course we're good at developing players! that is why I get annoyed when posters here complain that we don't play our draftees soon and often enough!. Maybe they don't realize that, if we did play them more or sooner, they may not develop well enough. You only have to look at clubs like St. Kilda, Carlton, Melbourne and others, that have managed to ruin some very good talent by doing just that.

 

[Jeffcrowe]

This was also suggested by Paul Roos on "On the Couch" last night. He felt that Gooch plus our pick 8 and 13 could get us pick one from Carlton. Question is, is it too high a price to pay for pick one.

That is exactly the type of deal that Carlton would want as a minimum so anyone that wants Lukoscious needs to realise that

Likely won't happen and probably shouldn't

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Far too high a price.

Probably true which means we won't get Lukoscious so everyone needs to temper expectations

 

[Jeffcrowe]

Let’s be honest, Douglas has had a good career. You would take his career if offered with a pick 17 or whatever it was.

Having said that, he never lived up to his true potential with brain snaps, poor decision making, going to ground too easily, missed tackles etc stopping him from becoming a star. He won a B and F when we were truly terrible, probably the worst side we have had in 21 years.

He's also been a very consistent performer and many other years st the pointier end of our B and F

Also some say he only plays well when we do or doesn't perform well when we lose

The B and F that year completely debunks that theory and makes a mockery of the people that suggest those things

For some reason we like to build up our U24s then shoot them down later on . Everyone needs to temper their analysis of our young players

 

[hey shorty]

That is exactly the type of deal that Carlton would want as a minimum so anyone that wants Lukoscious needs to realise that

Likely won't happen and probably shouldn't

They want more senior players, Gooch wouldn't be on the agenda

 

[Pea Nut]

This was also suggested by Paul Roos on "On the Couch" last night. He felt that Gooch plus our pick 8 and 13 could get us pick one from Carlton. Question is, is it too high a price to pay for pick one.

I think the main point to take away from what Roos was saying was that Carlton need to be honest with themselves, identify their needs and go about filling those needs without worrying about anyone else, like what Roos did when he landed at Melbourne. The Crows component of that trade was just a loose example as there is a highly touted player from SA tipped to go pick 1 and we have a couple of first round picks.

 

[Hammond]

It would all depend on the return and what ROI we could obtain. If we could use the equity gained in that asset to buy an even greater asset with the potential for a far greater return and we still didn’t do it, that would really make us idiots.

Ignoring risk and only focusing on potential returns would make us even bigger idiots

 

[Elite Crow]

He's also been a very consistent performer and many other years st the pointier end of our B and F

Also some say he only plays well when we do or doesn't perform well when we lose

The B and F that year completely debunks that theory and makes a mockery of the people that suggest those things

For some reason we like to build up our U24s then shoot them down later on . Everyone needs to temper their analysis of our young players

Wait you are using his B&F performance from 2010 to counter a claim he is downhill skiing in 2018?

Has anyone suggested that has been systematic of his career? I don’t think anyone has.

I’ve raised it as being a concern this year, a year when he has been one of the few senior players to be injury free, well until recently. He has played well in our wins but in our losses he’s generally been poor.

So perhaps before you try and have a crack at posters perhaps understand what the hell they are saying.

 

[Golumless]

FWIW, I think the player with the 9th most games for us is a bit more than just "par". Even for a first rounder.

222 players have worn the Crows guernsey 15 have done it 200 times.

Around 6% of all players make it to 200 games, and about a third of all first rounders.

Suggesting Gooch will easily be better than Dougie or "only as good as" both under and over-rates Dougie's career IMO

I would like to remind you such luminaries on that list include Nathan Van Berlo, Brent Rielly and soon to be David Mackay. Playing 200 games is no real sign of quality bar a player has had a bit of luck and was able to hold down a role player position for long enough to make it at a minimum (and in the case that is very soon to be, not even that).

Douglas is pretty much the textbook case of someone who would be considered a par first rounder. This is his career achievements: 1 BnF (2010), 1 AA squad of 40 place (2013). That's it. Outside of one bright spot it is an absolute barren wasteland, and one befitting of a role player. I'd like to remind you that a role player with ideally some longevity is par for a first rounder.

He deserves every bit of praise for carving out a long career, and giving it all for Adelaide. However, has he set a particularly high bar for his replacement? Not really.

The end goal for Gallucci development is to be a player that has a much more decorated career then Dougy has had, or someone who has ended up chronically underrated for the majority of his career due to the side he has been in has been extremely powerful. It's neither underrating, or overrating Douglas's career, it's just accepting that he has been a good servant for us and not a thing more than that over the journey.

 

[Elite Crow]

I would like to remind you such luminaries on that list include Nathan Van Berlo, Brent Rielly and soon to be David Mackay. Playing 200 games is no real sign of quality bar a player has had a bit of luck and was able to hold down a role player position for long enough to make it at a minimum (and in the case that is very soon to be, not even that).

Douglas is pretty much the textbook case of someone who would be considered a par first rounder. This is his career achievements: 1 BnF (2010), 1 AA squad of 40 place (2013). That's it. Outside of one bright spot it is an absolute barren wasteland, and one befitting of a role player. I'd like to remind you that a role player with ideally some longevity is par for a first rounder.

He deserves every bit of praise for carving out a long career, and giving it all for Adelaide. However, has he set a particularly high bar for his replacement? Not really.

The end goal for Gallucci development is to be a player that has a much more decorated career then Dougy has had, or someone who has ended up chronically underrated for the majority of his career due to the side he has been in has been extremely powerful. It's neither underrating, or overrating Douglas's career, it's just accepting that he has been a good servant for us and not a thing more than that over the journey.

Well put. If you want a true gauge of Douglas’s career, it’s the praise he received this year for having some good games. Considering he’s a senior player, those games should be the norm and not worthy of adulation. Those same posters who lauded his performances have turned a blind eye to his sub standard games.

 

[Sanders]

Douglas is only a par first rounder if you ignore the real probabilities of actual first round draft picks

It’s still a lottery and he’s been a very good pick.

 

[Redleg Crow]

I would like to remind you such luminaries on that list include Nathan Van Berlo, Brent Rielly and soon to be David Mackay. Playing 200 games is no real sign of quality bar a player has had a bit of luck and was able to hold down a role player position for long enough to make it at a minimum (and in the case that is very soon to be, not even that).

And yet only about 5-6% of all AFL players are able to do it. Guess they must be just very lucky.

 

[Elite Crow]

Douglas has been a good player, not great and not s**t. He’s been better than VB, Reilly and Mackay so it’s unfair to lump him with them.

But at this stage of his career and with his inconsistent output, he’s not doing enough to keep a developing player out, especially Galluci who has showed some promise this year.

Then it comes down to type of player, Murphy performed a real role for us last week, his pressure was immense. We need to find out if he can develop that.

Next, Knight, no way should Douglas keep him out.

So I just don’t know who he should be replacing now, then if we add some elite talent via the draft we need to develop where does he fit in?

 

[Betts are off]

Douglas has been a good player, not great and not s**t. He’s been better than VB, Reilly and Mackay so it’s unfair to lump him with them.

But at this stage of his career and with his inconsistent output, he’s not doing enough to keep a developing player out, especially Galluci who has showed some promise this year.

Then it comes down to type of player, Murphy performed a real role for us last week, his pressure was immense. We need to find out if he can develop that.

Next, Knight, no way should Douglas keep him out.

So I just don’t know who he should be replacing now, then if we add some elite talent via the draft we need to develop where does he fit in?

Exactly! Dougy is the quintessential utility player (and a very good one at that). Meaning he is good at everything without having elite traits in any. Makes him a very handy guy to plug and play into lots of positions, but its also opens the door for guys with permanent roles as Mids or pressure forwards to be able to supplant him at this stage in his career.

Gallucci, Knight and Murphy have specific roles in the team right now and are a vital part of our gameplan. Replacing them with Dougy would be counter productive to winning games of footy. So I think this may be a case of a guy just being a victim of his own versatility!

 

[Elite Crow]

Exactly! Dougy is the quintessential utility player (and a very good one at that). Meaning he is good at everything without having elite traits in any. Makes him a very handy guy to plug and play into lots of positions, but its also opens the door for guys with permanent roles as Mids or pressure forwards to be able to supplant him at this stage in his career.

Gallucci, Knight and Murphy have specific roles in the team right now and are a vital part of our gameplan. Replacing them with Dougy would be counter productive to winning games of footy. So I think this may be a case of a guy just being a victim of his own versatility!

Or not excelling in one position. He’s not an elite mid, he is not in our top bunch of mids, he’s not an elite forward and he’s not really a good defender.

 

[Betts are off]

Or not excelling in one position. He’s not an elite mid, he is not in our top bunch of mids, he’s not an elite forward and he’s not really a good defender.

I cant argue with any of that. I'd say he's adequate at all those roles, whilst excelling at none, which is interesting for a 200 game veteran!

Milera is a good comparison IMO. Last year he had well reported struggles when he was used in a similar utility role between forward and outside MID, and was subsequently in and out of the side. But this year he has found his position at the HBF and shown some real potential to reach that next echelon! And now most would agree that Milera needs stay in the backline at all costs! So he's locked that position after almost being written off the year before!

Dougy never once made me say, he needs to spend all of his time at any position, and it will hurt his chances at selection as the next bracket of players come through.

 

[beartoo]

I cant argue with any of that. I'd say he's adequate at all those roles, whilst excelling at none, which is interesting for a 200 game veteran!

Milera is a good comparison IMO. Last year he had well reported struggles when he was used in a similar utility role between forward and outside MID, and was subsequently in and out of the side. But this year he has found his position at the HBF and shown some real potential to reach that next echelon! And now most would agree that Milera needs stay in the backline at all costs! So he's locked that position after almost being written off the year before!

Dougy never once made me say, he needs to spend all of his time at any position, and it will hurt his chances at selection as the next bracket of players come through.

Milera has to stay and Smith has to come back. Kelly at risk?

 

[Betts are off]

Milera has to stay and Smith has to come back. Kelly at risk?

Absolutely. Kelly's on borrowed time regardless IMO. Cheney allows us to play the way we want too out of defense, i.e quickly.

Kelly's indecision and lack of confidence to hit the release kick is ball movement quicksand. Even a rusty, unfit Smith would be 10x more effective at this then Kelly

 

[jackster83]

Douglas is only a par first rounder if you ignore the real probabilities of actual first round draft picks

It’s still a lottery and he’s been a very good pick.

Especially when you consider that our other first round pick that year ended up being delisted without playing a game.

 

[Elite Crow]

Especially when you consider that our other first round pick that year ended up being delisted without playing a game.

Gees we were s**t at drafting back then

 

[hey shorty]

Gees we were s**t at drafting back then

Darren was a good player, just a bit of a knob and injury prone

 

[Elite Crow]

Darren was a good player, just a bit of a knob and injury prone

Yeah but how many of of our draftees made it compared to now? I still remeber thinking Chad Gibson was going to be gun

 

[hey shorty]

Yeah but how many of of our draftees made it compared to now? I still remeber thinking Chad Gibson was going to be gun

In his instance I think he would have made it, but your right.... we had some shockers