List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

[Blue_Fusion]

Done, $1000 it is

What's the most you're willing to go?

 

[katmanblue]

Hahaha I already do donate

Okay it's a deal then, $300?

Someone move this to the bookmarked thread.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mr_Plow]

Someone move this to the bookmarked thread.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Should be moved to the high-rollers thread.

 

[Sector 7G]

After Doc went down, how many games did you think we would win?

How many games did we win last year after Cripps went down? 1

 

[Toddski]

Want him

Screams AFL. His possessions count. Boy could we do with him in the coming years. Huge upside as well. Perhaps drafting him and Rankine would assist in keeping them both, as they are S.A boys.

Would much prefer a combination of, for example,

Walsh/Rankine/Smith + Rozee

Than simply a Lukocious or Walsh with pick 1 and a lesser player in our second round.

 

[Soapy V]

Done, $1000 it is

I'm in for $1000.

 

[harrisendblue]

He's right about TDK, there were midfielders left that were worth taking and I don't know what to make of TDK other than he seems a bit 'vanilla'. If standout KPFs are there really early in the draft, you usually draft them. The value is better for midfielders and third tall types later in the draft rather than genuine big men. I don't understand our tactics in the draft last year apart from the idea that SOS and co thought that we were going to rise up the latter dramatically, that may explain half of it.

They recruited for needs with 30, to find a cas replacement, and in a time frame that allowed for appropriate development. TDK would not have been avaialble at 70 so no with the strategy of getting him. Midfielders are a dime a dozen - - multiple options every draft year and they take less time to reach afl standard.

On viewing TDK this well what a pleasant surprise. Way advanced on what CAS at the same age plus and in no way vanilla. Could be a very astute pickup.

 

[Soapy V]

TDK's a lot of things, but he's not plain.

Agree. Very strange comment

 

[Soapy V]

They recruited for needs with 30, to find a cas replacement, and in a time frame that allowed for appropriate development. TDK would not have been avaialble at 70 so no with the strategy of getting him. Midfielders are a dime a dozen - - multiple options every draft year and they take less time to reach afl standard.

On viewing TDK this well what a pleasant surprise. Way advanced on what CAS at the same age plus and in no way vanilla. Could be a very astute pickup.

Not sure about that. Comments I have heard is SOS rated him very very highly. Much higher than 30. Considered going for a mid but couldn't pass him up. Only other player we would have selected ahead of him was Tim Kelly.

 

[Arr0w]

Not sure about that. Comments I have heard is SOS rated him very very highly. Much higher than 30. Considered going for a mid but couldn't pass him up. Only other player we would have selected ahead of him was Tim Kelly.

Also interested in Spargo, given the slide

 

[Sector 7G]

My thoughts

Stephenson - Conner Rozee probably the most underrated kid in the draft.

Higgins - Zak Butters while not as natural a goal kicker both low centre of gravity players and ball winners.

Hayward - Curtis Taylor

Oliver Florent - Closest probably Bailey Smith who is more inside and quicker then Florent.

Stephenson was racking up big numbers at the end of last season.

Rozee reminds me of Gary Rohan, does some great stuff but ultimately doesn't do it enough and is a disapointment.

 

[Arr0w]

Stephenson was racking up big numbers at the end of last season.

Rozee reminds me of Gary Rohan, does some great stuff but ultimately doesn't do it enough and is a disapointment.

More Hayward maybe?

 

[LemmingMaster]

Rozee over Rankine every day of the week for me.

Hope you don't recruit for Carlton.

 

[Sector 7G]

More Hayward maybe?

Hayward was a bolter that came to the fore with great late season performances.

Rozee was highly rated in his junior year. Hasn't really come on or improved his output this year. Didn't even make the AA team

 

[Soapy V]

Hope you don't recruit for Carlton.

Not an easy decision. I find players like Rankine hard to assess. Talent/X factor is without doubt but can it transfer to the more structured defensive AFL these days? The 4 quarter consistent players can be more valuable

 

[Jeremias]

Why is it a big stretch? You're right that the Lions, Saints and Suns could finish below us, but it's unlikely to happen.

Why is it unlikely? Because it didn't happen this year?

North slide below us? Come on, you don't really believe that. it's not outside the realm of possibility but there's nothing to suggest it's likely they'll slide below us next year.

I certainly believe it's possible. I didn't say its likely to happen.

Most predicted North to finish near or on the bottom of the ladder this year. They deserve credit for getting themselves in a position where they're still fighting for a finals berth at this stage of the year, but there are still huge question marks over them going forward.

It's worth noting too that they've had an unbelievable run this year with injuries - to this point they've had 12 players feature in every game.

Only the Suns are realistically going to finish lower than us. But then, my trade scenario gives them pick #1 + #2 next year anyway.

I think there's a good argument to be made for all of those clubs to possibly slide below us and I'd be happy to expand on the reasons for each.

Realistic and then trade scenario in the same breath...

Dogs a very slight chance to finish below us.

Yes, which is why I mentioned them as a possibility.

For us to climb, we need to bring in someone like Shiel and hope to God that we don't get hit with injuries like we did this year.

For us to climb all we may need is a better run with injury.

Another preseason into the kids and a productive trade and free agency period can certainly have a significant positive effect too. Wait and see what happens on that front.

I know us finishing last again next year isn't what people want to hear but we have to face reality. Our older players are mostly no good:

The reality is it's a possibility, which I've already said.

Thomas, Rowe, Jones, O'Shea, Mullet, Casboult, Lamb, Wright, Lobbe has got to be among the worst crop of 'senior' players.

Sure, but to base our fortunes next year on the group we've got this year, is a flawed argument.

Wait and see what the group looks like once the list has been finalized.

Kreuzer is injury prone but he's a gun when up and running.
Ed is a goer, but nothing special. Still like him in our side.
Murphy, hard to gauge, he was crippled with injury this year. Hopefully bounces back next year.
Simmo, the clock is ticking for him. 35 years old, how long can he keep going?

Doc isn't going to just come back in and hit top form from round 1. Would be a miracle if he did.

Can't really argue with any of that, although I do believe you're underselling Ed who has been terrific this year.

We are a team relying on draft picks from end of 2015+, Docherty and Cripps. So again I ask, why is it a big stretch?

Because the competition is extremely even, and you've spent a fair chunk of time explaining why we won't improve, whilst completely ignoring factors at other clubs which may see them either stagnate or regress.

 

[Arr0w]

Hayward was a bolter that came to the fore with great late season performances.

Rozee was highly rated in his junior year. Hasn't really come on or improved his output this year. Didn't even make the AA team

Was commenting on the style of player, not how the have been traveling in their respective drafts.

At the next level, I believe Rozee will play more midfield minutes/up the ground, than someone like Hayward

I am also expecting Rozee to test well

 

[ferrisb]

Arr0w, Blue_Fusion, you two finished round 29 of your mega pissing contest?

Also if Carlton finishes bottom again next year, I think The Starlight Foundation would donate money to Carlton as the bigger charity case ...

 

[El Topo]

He's right about TDK, there were midfielders left that were worth taking and I don't know what to make of TDK other than he seems a bit 'vanilla'. If standout KPFs are there really early in the draft, you usually draft them. The value is better for midfielders and third tall types later in the draft rather than genuine big men. I don't understand our tactics in the draft last year apart from the idea that SOS and co thought that we were going to rise up the latter dramatically, that may explain half of it.

TDK wasn't drafted for 2018, he was drafted for 2021/22 when Kreuz finally disintegrates.

 

[Arr0w]

Arr0w, Blue_Fusion, you two finished round 29 of your mega pissing contest?

Also if Carlton finishes bottom again next year, I think The Starlight Foundation would donate money to Carlton as the bigger charity case ...

Looking back, you are right, certainly looks like a pissing contest, which wasn't my intention. I could have conveyed the same message(hopefully), with a $1 wager

 

[GT619]

Like the look of valente.

 

[LemmingMaster]

Not an easy decision. I find players like Rankine hard to assess. Talent/X factor is without doubt but can it transfer to the more structured defensive AFL these days? The 4 quarter consistent players can be more valuable

If you're calling Rozee a 4 quarter consistent player, then we might have watched a different player.

Rankine floor looks something like Cyril, that player who will turn a game with 15 possessions.
If Rankine increases his output to around 20-25 possessions per game, that is a lot of pain he will inflict.
Secondly, he is a pure goal scorer and to win games you need to kick goals.

I am hoping Rankine over times develops into a Robbie Gray styled player.

 

[Soapy V]

TDK wasn't drafted for 2018, he was drafted for 2021/22 when Kreuz finally disintegrates.

Very good forward as well. The combination of McKay/TDK in the future may be something special

 

[bigm386]

Yes, that was a shocker. Hm, you expect the same stupidity again. You may be right. To my amazement, Weller's deal actually turned out not as bad as Weller looked last month like he could turn into A player. Part of the deal was also pick 42 that Suns used on Ballard who turned out to be an absolute steal (top 10 pick for me).

I don't think it is the worst trade in history. But completely out of the box, hard to really predict what would be traded.

 

[Arr0w]

If you're calling Rozee a 4 quarter consistent player, then we might have watched a different player.

Rankine floor looks something like Cyril, that player who will turn a game with 15 possessions.
If Rankine increases his output to around 20-25 possessions per game, that is a lot of pain he will inflict.
Secondly, he is a pure goal scorer and to win games you need to kick goals.

I am hoping Rankine over times develops into a Robbie Gray styled player.

LM, you and I both know that Rankine's issues are not his football talent. His flaws, with some other aspects are reasons why most football watchers have him at a wide range. I suspect, that even if Adelaide don't improve on their first pick at 8, he could still slide to them, which would smell of draft tampering

As for suggesting Rankine's floor is Rioli, that could be a tad premature also, given Cyril already had a better team ethos at the same age

Early Cyril (Excuse the background music)