LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
All well and good but why wasn’t Dawson in the midfield?
Pick him and play him forward...
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Autopsy Rnd 19 2018 Swans dft by Bombers
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All well and good but why wasn’t Dawson in the midfield?
Pick him and play him forward...
Dear oh dear!
The King!
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Hayward’s heat map showed he barely left he backline
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Well no, the culprits are after the fact but yes, we are certainly contributing. We aren’t the only team, there’s...umm
LukeParkerno1
Post-Human
Zones could force Horse to change his gameplan...
Oh who am I kidding lol
Oh who am I kidding lol
The King!
Chosen One
These goal less quarters are becoming common
The horse bashing is seriously getting boring and immature. Was there and saw first hand it was 100% a personnel issue. It doesn’t matter who is in the box telling the players to run, spread, carry and use the corridor they simply weren’t capable of doing it. Essendon out ran us, their speed and line breaking is miles ahead we couldn’t do anything even if we tried. The team we have isn’t amazing like everyone else here for some reason thinks it is. We’re hanging onto hope by a thread and hanners, mcveigh and gaz out is taking its toll.
I’m not worried though because this club pumps out guns year after year and we already have a young brigade coming through. Will just need to sit a couple years hanging out behind the 8 before it gets going again.
I’m not worried though because this club pumps out guns year after year and we already have a young brigade coming through. Will just need to sit a couple years hanging out behind the 8 before it gets going again.
Can not disagree more. Perhaps that is the view some may get, but he has huge credits for the way he handled the Buddy mental issues back in 2015. Showed a lot of class, composure and a lot of care at that time. He got plenty of deserved kudos at the time too.
We sometimes read too much into what we see in the limited vision we get of coaches through press conferences, in the box etc. But that side of it is not a problem with Longmire at all imho. His tactics and lack of flexibility is another story altogether.
scaryness
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Yep that is my view to - though I don't want clarko anywhere near our club.
The young guys have carried a huge burden this season more generally - many of our better performances were as much about them standing up as it has been older guys leading from the front. But it is catching up with them.
With the right gameplan and some astute trading/drafting, the future is very bright in my opinion. But if we don't fix the gameplan, we will simply waste the next generation of cygnets coming through. They are not the rough and tumble, hard nosed style that has fitted a defensive game plan - we need to find a gameplan that will fit their strengths.
If the AFL wasn't hellbent on creating a game where 'defensive footy = pure evil', 'goal a minute = the only game in town' mantra, perhaps you might be right. But the game is moving in only one direction, and its a direction in which our gameplan is becoming more and more a dinosaur and is going to become harder and harder to sustain.
I agree in part the personnel that are out, as well as the tiring of the young guys is a key reason why we are dropping off this season. But I think its perfectly valid to question whether it may in fact be time for a new direction in the coaches box. All coaches eventually become stale, bar the very, very few exceptions. Horse has been a wonderful coach for us - his record shows that, but perhaps his time is passing, and we need a new direction. Its hard to deny we play boring footy and a style that is easy to counter.
Also, I'd hardly say the 2018 version of Gaz or Hanners is much of a loss to be perfectly honest. McVeigh a different story too. I also think the loss of Mills has gone undervalued by some.
The King!
Chosen One
Horse has been the problem for a few years
Buddy on 10 mil for a rebuild lol
Buddy on 10 mil for a rebuild lol
Thats because we didnt make 2014, 2016 count.
The King!
Chosen One
That is a much more logically put forward argument than all the other drivel being spewed out on here.
I agree the game has changed a bit but I don’t think the game is that complicated to the point where we have to change completely. I’ve said it before, we were belting teams week in week out a few years back, if we had that same team playing tonight we would’ve belted Essendon aswell even with the same game plan. I think our list is no where near what it used to be and we simply aren’t that good. But to me it’s 2009 all over again and with the youngsters we’ve got I have high hopes
Horse has had the luxury of having the best forward of the last 20 years in his side yet his defence at all costs mentality has totally nullified that advantage. Even against ordinary opposition he does not back his 6 defenders to beat the opposition forwards. At every centre bounce we play no more than 5 forwards, sometimes even 4. Is it any wonder that after winning a centre clearance the ball comes straight back out again .His methodology of having the ball constantly in your defensive half and then clearing it to an open forward line worked 5 - 10 years ago but certainly not anymore. Is it any wonder opposition teams have 70+ inside 50s. If we had had Chris Scott as coach over the past years we would have won 2-3 flags since bud joined us . Every bloody time it goes near him he has 2-3 players hanging off him which wouldn't be so bad if we then had loose players to take the spills but they are all still in the backline. Geelong was so successful in that era because they wanted to kick goals. Longmire's only wish is to deny goals .
He totally refuses to change a single thing and is more interested in looking for someone else to blame rather than his own lack of imagination or nous .
Obviously, he won't resign, so we will have to put up with this kicking no more than 10 goals in most matches for another 2 years.
It's got to the stage where I much rather to watch other matches than the ones involving my own team and that is the saddest part of it all.
He totally refuses to change a single thing and is more interested in looking for someone else to blame rather than his own lack of imagination or nous .
Obviously, he won't resign, so we will have to put up with this kicking no more than 10 goals in most matches for another 2 years.
It's got to the stage where I much rather to watch other matches than the ones involving my own team and that is the saddest part of it all.
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Midfield frequency stats for the game. For those that haven't seen one of these posts before, this is an overall summary of how often players started as one of the 5 mids at each centre bounce.
There were 26 bounces
Cunningham 21 wing
Florent 19 (16w, 3i)
Kennedy 19
Hewett 19 (14i, 5w)
Parker 18
Heeney 16
Newman 6 (4w, 2i)
Hayward 2
Papley 2
Jones 2 wing
Lloyd 1 wing
O'Riordan 1 wing
Ronke 1
NB> The far winger couldn't be determined on 1 occasion due to 7 still showing replays 15-20secs after play had restarted.
Rucks:
Sinclair 23
Dawson 3
Notes:
- On 1 occasion, you started with only 2 inside mids (Merrett was unattended), on another occasion Zaharakis started without an opponent on the wing and ran around unattended for 60-90secs.
- Very odd to bring in a specialist inside mid like Dawson and not give him a single start in the role, especially when you consider the number of guys who don't regularly get starts who were given starts instead, and that Fox wasn't used at all either
- Papley & Hayward split starting off the back of the square at bounces. Hayward received his equal most ever midfield appearances in an analysed game, and his first inside mid start in an analysed game since Rd 2, 2017.
- Most ever starts for Newman as an inside mid in an analysed game.
- Jones's first midfield appearance (in an analysed game) since Rd 8 - this was the 9th Swans match analysed since then
- Ronke's first inside mid start in an analysed game since Rd 11 - all bar the Gold Coast match have been analysed since
There were 26 bounces
Cunningham 21 wing
Florent 19 (16w, 3i)
Kennedy 19
Hewett 19 (14i, 5w)
Parker 18
Heeney 16
Newman 6 (4w, 2i)
Hayward 2
Papley 2
Jones 2 wing
Lloyd 1 wing
O'Riordan 1 wing
Ronke 1
NB> The far winger couldn't be determined on 1 occasion due to 7 still showing replays 15-20secs after play had restarted.
Rucks:
Sinclair 23
Dawson 3
Notes:
- On 1 occasion, you started with only 2 inside mids (Merrett was unattended), on another occasion Zaharakis started without an opponent on the wing and ran around unattended for 60-90secs.
- Very odd to bring in a specialist inside mid like Dawson and not give him a single start in the role, especially when you consider the number of guys who don't regularly get starts who were given starts instead, and that Fox wasn't used at all either
- Papley & Hayward split starting off the back of the square at bounces. Hayward received his equal most ever midfield appearances in an analysed game, and his first inside mid start in an analysed game since Rd 2, 2017.
- Most ever starts for Newman as an inside mid in an analysed game.
- Jones's first midfield appearance (in an analysed game) since Rd 8 - this was the 9th Swans match analysed since then
- Ronke's first inside mid start in an analysed game since Rd 11 - all bar the Gold Coast match have been analysed since
caesar88
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Only two things enjoyable about tonight.
1. Aliir Aliir YET AGAIN being just about our best player. It's a sad day when a defender who only had 12 possessions and zero tackles is your best player, but think about the uncertainty and lack of confidence with which all 21 other players on our team had tonight and then compare them with Aliir. He backs himself, knows when to do the right thing, and he worked over-time tonight mopping up to protect what would have otherwise been a very, very ugly defeat.
2. Some actual honest, accountable commentary for once. I usually despise all commentators, especially during Swans losses. But tonight it felt like BT, Bruce, Carey, Ling - all flogs - were able to remove themselves from the hype around Essendon's form and look at the Swans realistically. I can't recall a game where the commentators have so vehemently and blatantly analysed, criticised and scrutinised a premiership coach's game-plan. Usually with top four teams, even when they are playing absolute s**t-house, they seem to give them a pass and talk about them as if it's an off night. But tonight even they felt it was absolutely unavoidable and undeniable that there was something inherently wrong with the way our boys were playing and more or less attributed it all to the coaching staff. They actually talked about what Sydney needed to do to improve and what ways we were declining, instead of just "geez this has been so unSwanslike!" Props to CH7. I actually think BT and Carey particularly have brought a level of authenticity to calling games. They are really speaking their mind even if it's not politically correct to do so and are pointing fingers and naming names. I personally am liking it and glad they recognised what many of us were thinking.
Nothing else to say really... maybe Aliir is a star? Can't think of much else
1. Aliir Aliir YET AGAIN being just about our best player. It's a sad day when a defender who only had 12 possessions and zero tackles is your best player, but think about the uncertainty and lack of confidence with which all 21 other players on our team had tonight and then compare them with Aliir. He backs himself, knows when to do the right thing, and he worked over-time tonight mopping up to protect what would have otherwise been a very, very ugly defeat.
2. Some actual honest, accountable commentary for once. I usually despise all commentators, especially during Swans losses. But tonight it felt like BT, Bruce, Carey, Ling - all flogs - were able to remove themselves from the hype around Essendon's form and look at the Swans realistically. I can't recall a game where the commentators have so vehemently and blatantly analysed, criticised and scrutinised a premiership coach's game-plan. Usually with top four teams, even when they are playing absolute s**t-house, they seem to give them a pass and talk about them as if it's an off night. But tonight even they felt it was absolutely unavoidable and undeniable that there was something inherently wrong with the way our boys were playing and more or less attributed it all to the coaching staff. They actually talked about what Sydney needed to do to improve and what ways we were declining, instead of just "geez this has been so unSwanslike!" Props to CH7. I actually think BT and Carey particularly have brought a level of authenticity to calling games. They are really speaking their mind even if it's not politically correct to do so and are pointing fingers and naming names. I personally am liking it and glad they recognised what many of us were thinking.
Nothing else to say really... maybe Aliir is a star? Can't think of much else
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As others have Said, seriously gotta wonder if Dew is having a look at buddy given the Lynch situation. Wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world to lose him if we got the right coin.
scaryness
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Guarantee Lynch will be on more money than Buddy.
Before Gold Coast tanked his value a bit, I was fully expecting Lynch to sign the biggest contract in AFL history.
Before Gold Coast tanked his value a bit, I was fully expecting Lynch to sign the biggest contract in AFL history.
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Because we have been adopting the australian cricket teams approach to the silly leg position. You know the new boy always gets the helmet and the in close experience. Our new boys - towers, fox dawson get thrown into the ruck.
I mean, part of that was thrust upon the club with the trade ban - something that will forever infuriate me.
But with that said, the list is in a bad spot right now (injuries notwithstanding) and our gameplan does not line up with our talent anymore. We need a BIG evolution of our list this offseason. Like 2009 offseason, where we managed to find Kennedy, McGlynn, and Mumford. We need ready-made senior players who can compete for best-22 spots immediately.
Whether Longmire is around or not. And as much as he's getting piled on right now, Longmire I think has a personality of being frank with those around him. He's not silly, he must know things are bad right now and that he might be losing influence on the playing group.
Artygunner
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Kirkswan
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That statement is an oxymoron and shows a complete lack of respect for any opinion that doesn't match yours.
I am not blindly loyal, nor do I have my head in the sand, and I find that comment offensive.
**None of the rest of this is to you, I just can't be bothered to start another post...
Horse can not get out there and play for them. He cannot stop them from falling off tackles, missing tackles, not chasing, not taking responsibility for your own man or your own game. He can't drop them, because there is no-one to replace them, we have reached the bottom of the barrel. Perhaps our youth are tired and sore, but they have to go on, and how well they do so is up to them. The same goes for our older players. This is their job. Half the office down with the flu? You don't get to shut up show, you just go and do the best you can. Look at Aliir. He is playing under the same coach, in the same game plan and he is WORKING HIS ARSE OFF! He is well aware that his long kicks are not nearly as good as short, so he is kicking short. He is playing to the best of his ability and taking his second chance with both hands. Cunningham is not as talented, but he too is giving it his all. Buddy is playing on no training, Parker is practically killing himself... who else?
How you or any of the commentators for that matter, was able to pin either this game or the last on the game plan is beyond me! The commentators continuous dribble about our out-dated, unfashionable game plan is clearly part of a well-developed campaign by Fox and the AFL to gain public support for their proposed changes to the way the game is played. And if this board is anything to go by, it is clearly an effective plan.
I haven't heard one comment from any of the so-called experts in the media, or on here for that matter, about how the 'trade-ban' post Buddy is impacting us right now! We have 5 players with 100+ to 200 games, Essendon have 12, West Coast have 12, Crows have 12, Tigers have 10, Collingwood have 12, Port have 13, and the Giants have 9 (with 4 more in the 80 to 90s range). We are in a rebuild sure, and that is certainly having an impact, but it's the players we would (or maybe could) have brought in during that restricted period that is the issue.
Our club, including Horse, has done a simply marvellous job in keeping us competitive. Maybe we won't make the 8, maybe we will lose all games from here on in, but that doesn't change the facts.
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Perspective please. It was only 5 weeks ago we beat the team leading the competition which propelled us into top 2 spot. So we can play to very high standard. Certainly competitive with top echelon. We've fallen off a cliff ........so why?
IMO the answer is complicated. many factors including:
- our young not being able to maintain consistency
- buddy playing injured most of year
- Hanners (best gut runner) dropping off a cliff
- severe loss of confidence after the richmond game lowered players goals
- inability to lock in the forward 50- seems to have evaporated
- the manic pressure game style being being difficult to maintain in this playing list
- the leadership being unavailable through injury
- contract negotiation for too many being stale (off fiend affecting on field)
- the draw has been incredibly difficult
- persistent umpire bias
- a midfield below it's absolute best
- the evenness of the competition giving no respite to pressure football
I saw some things last night which told me certain players minds were elsewhere- lack of effort. Won't name names but I think the sooner the trade period happen and new list is settled the better it will be. Once confidence is lost to this extent it's difficult to re acquire quickly. No premiership and possibly no finals this year but I remain positive all the same. Need some good drafts selections and some good trades now.
IMO the answer is complicated. many factors including:
- our young not being able to maintain consistency
- buddy playing injured most of year
- Hanners (best gut runner) dropping off a cliff
- severe loss of confidence after the richmond game lowered players goals
- inability to lock in the forward 50- seems to have evaporated
- the manic pressure game style being being difficult to maintain in this playing list
- the leadership being unavailable through injury
- contract negotiation for too many being stale (off fiend affecting on field)
- the draw has been incredibly difficult
- persistent umpire bias
- a midfield below it's absolute best
- the evenness of the competition giving no respite to pressure football
I saw some things last night which told me certain players minds were elsewhere- lack of effort. Won't name names but I think the sooner the trade period happen and new list is settled the better it will be. Once confidence is lost to this extent it's difficult to re acquire quickly. No premiership and possibly no finals this year but I remain positive all the same. Need some good drafts selections and some good trades now.
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Kirkswan
Premium Platinum
No he didn't, he has been playing mid/fwd in the NEAFL and that is where he played last night.
