Under Age AFL U15s and U16s

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Watchfromadistance said:
No I am not sorry, but I am a school teacher, primary, and know a little bit about how things operate, due to knowing others involved as players and coaches.

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Well you articulated the state 15's selection process much better than I did.

I'd be interested to hear from people from other states as to their selection policy.
 
Tundrawolf said:
Well you articulated the state 15's selection process much better than I did.

I'd be interested to hear from people from other states as to their selection policy.
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So would I. In SA the 15s jumpers definitely display the SANFL logo. WAFC and School Sports WA need to find a way to work together otherwise the 15's from WA is a farcical.

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Tundrawolf said:
Well you articulated the state 15's selection process much better than I did.

I'd be interested to hear from people from other states as to their selection policy.
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Also only Taj Schofield and Logan McDonald have represented the state in 12s, 15's and 16's. Only half a dozen boys from 15's made 16's.
Logan, Taj, Zane Trew, Denver Granger-Barrass, Nathan O'Driscoll (coincidentally all of whom are All Australian) Logan Foley and Jaylen Colegate were in the squad but were never selected to play.

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Watchfromadistance said:
It is what it is because the WAFC dont financially support it. The selection process is reasonably fair but the ability to pay makes it out of their reach. If the WAFC got involved it could help here. They could hold 15s carnival with 16s carnival and go from there. At present School Sports WA goes it alone. There were that many 14 year olds in 2017s team it was embarrassing. All the aboriginal boys go the kickstart pathway as it is funded and other boys go the next generation academy route for a similar reason. How about pooling all the resources to make one really good state 15s.
The 15s are always scratching for decent facilities and venues. It isn't the selection process that keeps WAFC disinterested it is the fact that only school teachers are used as coaches. It is a school sports Australia event. Could be done a lot better with AFL involvement.
I notice in SA SANFL work in with Their 15s somehow.

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totally agree. the 15s is becoming farsical in WA. Unless you have rich parents to pay the $3000+ to get you there, forget it. The selection process is mediocre at best - not much better than the 12s where the kids who get in are mostly the kids who attend the 'academies' run by the coaches. last year the 15s had a 12 or 13 year old in the team. (he is now back in the 15s as a bottom ager and the captain). lets see where these superstars at 14 are in 4 years time...
 
Zurgblade said:
I dont think the opportunities to coach are limited to school teachers only because if you refer to the SSWA U12's Basketball team, the head coach over the last 3 years isnt a teacher.
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ive heard about this guy. biaised as during selection but getting results. not sure bwa value him at all, but no need to as he only has to answer to sswa!
 
BigDance said:
ive heard about this guy. biaised as during selection but getting results. not sure bwa value him at all, but no need to as he only has to answer to sswa!
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I've watched him coach and he is an incredible coach but yes the squads he selects tend to significantly favour his home club. Guess it is one of the perks of being the coach.
 
Zurgblade said:
Not sure if you noticed, but the WA 15's also have a new head coach. Ray Barrett the original coach for 20+ years now has a gig training the WCE NGA boys.
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Freezin said:
I see ex WAFL boys Andrew Ruck (Cl) and Andrew Stephen (EF) are WA coaches....
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Watchfromadistance said:
It is what it is because the WAFC dont financially support it. The selection process is reasonably fair but the ability to pay makes it out of their reach. If the WAFC got involved it could help here. They could hold 15s carnival with 16s carnival and go from there. At present School Sports WA goes it alone. There were that many 14 year olds in 2017s team it was embarrassing. All the aboriginal boys go the kickstart pathway as it is funded and other boys go the next generation academy route for a similar reason. How about pooling all the resources to make one really good state 15s.
The 15s are always scratching for decent facilities and venues. It isn't the selection process that keeps WAFC disinterested it is the fact that only school teachers are used as coaches. It is a school sports Australia event. Could be done a lot better with AFL involvement.
I notice in SA SANFL work in with Their 15s somehow.
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The 15's Australian Carnival is a SSWA event. In WA I think they go it alone because they've wanted to go it alone and that was mainly because it was Ray Barrett's baby. However as is pointed out some States have support from their development zones. Not sure why the districts didn't want to get involved in WA. Ray didn't want input from clubs about promising players and they didn't seem to want to deal with him. Andrew Ruck had been with him for a few years, now in charge and is also familiar with WAFL districts being with Perth and a former Perth Colts coach. Thomas Moscarda and Andrew Stephen assistant coaches. You would think they would be open to change and collaboration.

Teachers were supposed to nominate players, but in some schools they have no idea about the team or boys that had talent. Districts who have been watching and nurturing players should have a stronger involvement in this. This would also get more regional players in.

Trails on Monday nights after State School boys played a hard round of community football on Sunday went against them. Getting someone to drive to Perth for 3 or 4 weeks for trials and then continually for training made it difficult for many from the country areas to try out. Many random players and younger players who should be waiting for the next year just turn up to have a go and muddy the waters somewhat. Would be better to have players nominated and have trials in holidays or a camp for the last cut.

It was passed down from boys that made the squad previously that wearing red shorts or red socks, tights, having an afro to make you stand out worked, and it did, as the coaches had to sift through hundreds of hopefuls knowing no one.

And then there is the cost of over $3000 for the privileged of representing your state. Most Indigenous players once they made the team could apply for funding, and it was often other players who couldn't afford it. I agree with watch from a distances suggestions about coming together and pooling resources. I don't think there would be any argument about the quality of Ruck etc as coaches and but perhaps assistance and funding could be offered in return for having a one year age limit and players nominated from development zones and NGA.
 
BigDance said:
ive heard about this guy. biaised as during selection but getting results. not sure bwa value him at all, but no need to as he only has to answer to sswa!
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Mike Ellis? Anyone would be lucky to have him as a coach. Also, Boys 12's don't have as teacher as coach but have managers and Tour Leaders who are teachers.
 
Watchfromadistance said:
Basketball or footy? Because the footy definitely has a teacher as coach.

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Mike Ellis is a Basketball legend, was player, captain and coach for Wildcats for many years. Is not a teacher, but coaches the SSWA 18's basketball. 12s Basketball don't have a teacher for coach as well. Just making the point that I think it's Ok not to have teacher coach's as long as teachers are managers and tour leaders.

School Sports WA organises hundreds of inter school primary, secondary, country and regional comps and as many as 20 different sports for Interstate competitions. Australia wide it is a huge and long running organisation.

They wouldn't want to lose control of 15s Football but the way it was run under Ray allowed with almost no collaboration with the districts for whatever reason has allowed strange selections IMO. Maybe things will change with Ruck now head coach.
 
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BlueE said:
Mike Ellis is a Basketball legend, was player, captain and coach for Wildcats for many years. Is not a teacher, but coaches the SSWA 18's basketball. 12s Basketball don't have a teacher for coach as well. Just making the point that I think it's Ok not to have teacher coach's as long as teachers are managers and tour leaders.

School Sports WA organises hundreds of inter school primary, secondary, country and regional comps and as many as 20 different sports for Interstate competitions. Australia wide it is a huge and long running organisation.

They wouldn't want to lose control of 15s Football but the way it was run under Ray allowed with almost no collaboration with the districts for whatever reason has allowed strange selections IMO. Maybe things will change with Ruck now head coach.
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That's funny because when I was talking to Ray he seemed to really want WAFC interaction and made that point in his speech at last year's jumper presos. He was also talking regularly with Tony Micale and inviting him down to observe and get his thoughts.
I agree with Mike Ellis being a legend, just wanted to clarify if you were talking footy or basketball in regards to 12s.

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WAFL has their development programs and run a 15's carnival. I would imagine they draw alot from this when viewing potential players for State under 16's etc. I guess it's looking at the different pathways. Seems State 12s 15s etc doesn't hold the same weight as State 16's 18's as far as development or scouting. And fair enough. A lot can happen in those years in between. Talls don't really start to come into their own until 17/18 and beyond.
Perhaps given the strength of the individual WAFL pathways from 14s and 15s they don't feel the need to align with Schoolboys footy? I know Swan's development are watching every game, every weekend and already know who they like and who they are going to invest in. The WAFL development carnivals allow them to see boys compete against the other development players (within the state) & then 16's kicks in on a national level. I think it's important to keep kids linked in with community footy too. We need these kids playing in community or PSA leagues too, until their old enough for Colts to become the preferred avenue (or PSA)
 
Brett1974 said:
WAFL has their development programs and run a 15's carnival. I would imagine they draw alot from this when viewing potential players for State under 16's etc. I guess it's looking at the different pathways. Seems State 12s 15s etc doesn't hold the same weight as State 16's 18's as far as development or scouting. And fair enough. A lot can happen in those years in between. Talls don't really start to come into their own until 17/18 and beyond.
Perhaps given the strength of the individual WAFL pathways from 14s and 15s they don't feel the need to align with Schoolboys footy? I know Swan's development are watching every game, every weekend and already know who they like and who they are going to invest in. The WAFL development carnivals allow them to see boys compete against the other development players (within the state) & then 16's kicks in on a national level. I think it's important to keep kids linked in with community footy too. We need these kids playing in community or PSA leagues too, until their old enough for Colts to become the preferred avenue (or PSA)
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Good Post and agree that 15s is not valued. Understand the maturity thing. Why have it at all though if it is not going to be done properly?

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Watchfromadistance said:
That's funny because when I was talking to Ray he seemed to really want WAFC interaction and made that point in his speech at last year's jumper presos. He was also talking regularly with Tony Micale and inviting him down to observe and get his thoughts.
I agree with Mike Ellis being a legend, just wanted to clarify if you were talking footy or basketball in regards to 12s.

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Watchfromadistance said:
Good Post and agree that 15s is not valued. Understand the maturity thing. Why have it at all though if it is not going to be done properly?

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School Sports WA would think they are doing it properly and have been for years. I thought the divide between SSWA and Districts was mutual, maybe not or maybe the influence of new coaches. I think the SSWA coaches are competent and dedicated but the main problem I see is that they don't get to see all the best players, or get overloaded with underage players and are under pressure to pick the team as soon as possible so parents have opportunity to fund raise. One of the most successful years was when WA was allowed to put in two teams. Coaches could train and see the boys longer before picking the A and B side as all were travelling.

I understand the Districts thoughts that players haven't reached maturity and boys understand different player could get picked at different ages because of this.
Dstricts have their own 15's carnival but that is months before the SSWA Carnival and this could only be beneficial experience for the boys with expert training and help on offer. I think SSWA should be limited to a one year age (no students 13 turning 14) unless unusual circumstances.

Basketball obviously have strong connections to their districts because of Mike with his own District and his knowledge of others through all the games they play as well as selection. It's asking a lot for the football coaches to be aware of all the district players but they do have connections and also have connections to some football specialist schools.

16s certainly had coaches and expertise in S & C to burn with about 20 support staff altogether funded by the AFL, so its temping to think they should be sharing some of that money around, where SSWA has zero money.
 
BlueE said:
School Sports WA would think they are doing it properly and have been for years. I thought the divide between SSWA and Districts was mutual, maybe not or maybe the influence of new coaches. I think the SSWA coaches are competent and dedicated but the main problem I see is that they don't get to see all the best players, or get overloaded with underage players and are under pressure to pick the team as soon as possible so parents have opportunity to fund raise. One of the most successful years was when WA was allowed to put in two teams. Coaches could train and see the boys longer before picking the A and B side as all were travelling.

I understand the Districts thoughts that players haven't reached maturity and boys understand different player could get picked at different ages because of this.
Dstricts have their own 15's carnival but that is months before the SSWA Carnival and this could only be beneficial experience for the boys with expert training and help on offer. I think SSWA should be limited to a one year age (no students 13 turning 14) unless unusual circumstances.

Basketball obviously have strong connections to their districts because of Mike with his own District and his knowledge of others through all the games they play as well as selection. It's asking a lot for the football coaches to be aware of all the district players but they do have connections and also have connections to some football specialist schools.

16s certainly had coaches and expertise in S & C to burn with about 20 support staff altogether funded by the AFL, so its temping to think they should be sharing some of that money around, where SSWA has zero money.
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The WAFL 15's carnival is earlier to incorporate a preseason with the WAFL coaches then minimal impact on community clubs. It's important to continue fostering those players in community and PSA clubs. Stream them then at the u16 age.
 
BlueE said:
School Sports WA would think they are doing it properly and have been for years. I thought the divide between SSWA and Districts was mutual, maybe not or maybe the influence of new coaches. I think the SSWA coaches are competent and dedicated but the main problem I see is that they don't get to see all the best players, or get overloaded with underage players and are under pressure to pick the team as soon as possible so parents have opportunity to fund raise. One of the most successful years was when WA was allowed to put in two teams. Coaches could train and see the boys longer before picking the A and B side as all were travelling.

I understand the Districts thoughts that players haven't reached maturity and boys understand different player could get picked at different ages because of this.
Dstricts have their own 15's carnival but that is months before the SSWA Carnival and this could only be beneficial experience for the boys with expert training and help on offer. I think SSWA should be limited to a one year age (no students 13 turning 14) unless unusual circumstances.

Basketball obviously have strong connections to their districts because of Mike with his own District and his knowledge of others through all the games they play as well as selection. It's asking a lot for the football coaches to be aware of all the district players but they do have connections and also have connections to some football specialist schools.

16s certainly had coaches and expertise in S & C to burn with about 20 support staff altogether funded by the AFL, so its temping to think they should be sharing some of that money around, where SSWA has zero money.
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I agree. SSWA need to get out to the district matches as well as hold their own trial matches. Would have more of a feel for each player

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Victoria beat SA to win carnival, WA finished 3rd beating Qld. WA's Jed Hagan from Geraldton wins best player at the carnival overall.....WA poor kicking v SA (4.14) to lose by a goal, costs WA a GF spot v Victoria.....Victoria win the carnival undefeated.....
 
Not sure mate, just saw Jed Hagan on the East Freo Football Club site with a little spiel about his performances over the carnival....Hagan comes from Geraldton which is in East Fremantles country zone..
 
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