Western Bulldogs and their partnership with Ballarat a success

DelRe

Club Legend
Jan 29, 2017
1,219
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AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
As an interst why are those against our current strategy making poorly made arguments yet there is yet to be one genuinely backed up by any evidence, made argument for it?
I think it’s in danger of becoming either your for or against it which I don’t think it should be - particularly as that then takes on characteristics of hoping it fails for an I told you so moment.

I’d say the argument is poorly made because you’re referencing investing in local communities and clubs etc which can happen irrespective of playing at Ballarat so the point is largely irrelevant. In fact if incrementally more money is made from Ballarat than Etihad those investments can be pursued with more vigor. Those investments are relatively low cost anyway. If the club is not adequately making them it has nothing to do with Ballarat. The evidence I’d suggest for that is Hawthorn and North both of which seem capable of pursuing Tas while also investing in local communities.

I’d say the reasonable argument for Ballarat is that it is a region inherently linked to the clubs identity of ‘Western’ and makes more money than continuing to play these low key games at Etihad. I’d say the evidence for that is the substantial media coverage of the previous awful deal and the evidence that a better deal under the AFL was not realistic is that no club is pursuing more games there and the implicit logic in the club execs making the decision to move away. Sure execs can make mistakes and should be open to criticism but it’s hard to believe homework wasn’t done by people whose full time job it was to have done so to be comfortable that Ballarat was a better financial outcome.

Of course if it fails or they should’ve known better - including if it loses money or is worse than Etihad - then they should be held accountable.
 
I think it’s in danger of becoming either your for or against it which I don’t think it should be - particularly as that then takes on characteristics of hoping it fails for an I told you so moment.

I’d say the argument is poorly made because you’re referencing investing in local communities and clubs etc which can happen irrespective of playing at Ballarat so the point is largely irrelevant. In fact if incrementally more money is made from Ballarat than Etihad those investments can be pursued with more vigor. Those investments are relatively low cost anyway. If the club is not adequately making them it has nothing to do with Ballarat. The evidence I’d suggest for that is Hawthorn and North both of which seem capable of pursuing Tas while also investing in local communities.

I’d say the reasonable argument for Ballarat is that it is a region inherently linked to the clubs identity of ‘Western’ and makes more money than continuing to play these low key games at Etihad. I’d say the evidence for that is the substantial media coverage of the previous awful deal and the evidence that a better deal under the AFL was not realistic is that no club is pursuing more games there and the implicit logic in the club execs making the decision to move away. Sure execs can make mistakes and should be open to criticism but it’s hard to believe homework wasn’t done by people whose full time job it was to have done so to be comfortable that Ballarat was a better financial outcome.

Of course if it fails or they should’ve known better - including if it loses money or is worse than Etihad - then they should be held accountable.

A lot of what you say I don't disagree with the sentiment, and as posted before I don't actually want it to fail as an I told you so scenario would actually put the club at risk.

My biggest issue is there appears to be no clearly defined result or outcome for the club that requires the cornerstone to be giving up home games for the 20,000 plus members who already pay for seats, as well as the 50 or so sponsors, neither of which come close to be accommodated with the Ballarat deal.

The only 2 selling or moving of home games that have resulted in greater support bases are Hawthorn and to a lesser extent North. The main reason for their success is the entire state would have no AFL football and in fact Aussie rules as a code has little to no direction down there so picking up supporters is a possibility.

For the people of Ballarat to travel to AFL games in Melbourne or Geelong they only need travel just over an hour to follow any one of 10 teams. There is no compelling reason for them or their kids for that matter to switch allegiances because we play 2 home and away games there each year. Therefore, the only outcome or result that makes any possible sense given the inadequate infrastructure at the ground is it is a cash grab.

The club never had the identity Western. It was a marketing folly of the past that has no substance to it. In fact part of the rational of the Ballarat move was due to earlier administrations no capitalising on the marketing ploy, not the fact that the whole basis was just a marketing fad of the 90's we will never recognise as a mistake and it is too late now to change it back.

One thing is your comfort in execs and their decisions. We have turned over a fair few of them so I am not as comfortable as you are in the spin they put out. However, in saying that the AFL itself is implicit in this whole venture as we are more dependant than others on their funding. Allowing these games to go ahead in a stadium whose facilities are not even close to adequate for the home teams fan base let alone opposition, and the supposed new fan base they are trying to attract, scheduling games up against the local comp or late Sunday in July, there is not much the Bulldogs administration can do to make this work whilst those restrictions are in place
 
Hi, let me introduce myself. I'm dogwatch and I'm a WB member. I'd like to go to a Ballarat game as I have friends in the area so I could easily justify the trip. It's just that I need to be able to plan the 1300 km round trip and let my friends make up a bed for me and Mrs dogwatch. I would happily shell out a few pineapples to enjoy my stay in the area too.

Up until now I haven't even bothered thinking about it because the word last year was there wouldn't be enough capacity even for Vic-based members let alone interstaters like me. Now it turns out we can't fill the place so when I have a look at the 2019 fixture I might put a Ballarat game on the calendar.

Just thought you might like to know one who will attend. It's only 45 minutes further away from me than Etihad after all. No problem when you've driven from Canberra!

Also, don't members get replacement games at Etihad for any home games played at Ballarat? How do they differ from admission to regular homes games ... GA only? No side perks?

Hi Dogwatch, I'm sure we've met many times before. Well, at least now I know one member who wants to go to a game in Ballarat, but still none who've actually been. I hope you can make the trip down next year, that'll boost the attendance up to 6452 and coming from Canberra you'll already be prepared for the weather, the country match atmosphere and the spartan facilities :D

As I said earlier, in my sphere of family, friends, and acquaintances of 40 -50 Dogs members and supporters none of them have been or want to go. This includes people who attend almost all Melbourne based games, club functions, training etc. In fact it's a lively topic of conversation amongst us and most of the commentary is anything but complimentary of the club for taking us in this direction.

Our attendance for home games at Etihad during 2016 averaged almost 33k. For the 4 games against interstate teams we averaged just over 27k. Unfortunately the key to our attendances is having a competitive, successful team out on the park. How would those crowd figures translate financially under whatever the new deal is at Etihad with the AFL ? Who knows !!

AFL matches played in front of crowds the size of yesterday's are an embarrassment. The stark contrast with the crowd that went to the MCG on Saturday makes you wonder if we're even playing in the same competition. Not that we're in anywhere near the same stratosphere of support as the Tigers and Pies, but if we continue down this path we'll just wither on the vine.

For the most part the people who are supporting or making arguments for playing in Ballarat are generally making fairly good cases, but the reality is that the vast majority of our 43,300 members and assorted supporters have voted with their feet and put them up on the couch.
 
For the most part the people who are supporting or making arguments for playing in Ballarat are generally making fairly good cases, but the reality is that vast majority of our 43,300 members and assorted supporters have voted with their feet and put them up on the couch.

The cases being made are those put out by every club doing something different to raise more money from home games. Perhaps this should be the argument as it is at least honest and you can tell the 43,300 members we are selling this home game away from you as we need 50,000 members to play all games at our home ground.

I also know of between 40 to 50 who would have been at the game yesterday at home but none or very few went nor will go to Ballarat. And given the club made a big song and dance about reducing the price for members to go it looks like alot have voted with their feet, around 40,000 approximately which given around 50% of members go to games 20,000 did not bother
 
There's been some teething problems, no doubt. The initial ticket pricing was one, which the club has already put their hand up and said they got wrong. So that has been taken care of. The second has been scheduling which the AFL have got completely wrong. Firstly it has to be early or late season and secondly it can't be on a Saturday (local footy) and thirdly it can't be the late game (dissuades Melbourne folk). Let's see next year if AFL schedule it as the early Sunday game in a warmer month... if they do, I'd would be confident in saying the crowd numbers would be a lot more respectable (not that I think they're that important at this stage of the excursion).

Having said that, there are still a few FACTS here:
1. The Club, who know our financials better than anyone pretends to on here, have determined that we need the extra cash flow into the club. We simply can't give up the cash we get by playing away from Etihad. To say this is short term cash grab is pretty narrow sighted, because this money can be invested into the club in other ways. Be that football department spending, be that infrastructure, be that facilities, etc. It's certainly a lot less "short term" than losing money by playing at Etihad.....
2. Ballarat is a lot closer to most of our members than other possible locations to sell games so it most definitely provides most of our members the best chance to attend. If you accept point one above (which you should as it's true) then Ballarat is the best option available for memeber attendance. I don't see how anyone could logically argue otherwise.
3. With Ballarat's proximity to the Western Suburbs it certainly provides the most likely location to grow membership numbers for the club. So again, if you accept point one (which you should as it's true) then Ballarat is the best option available for membership growth. Again, I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.
4. If you don't want to attend Ballarat, you have two replacement games you can attend. I believe this is a pretty fair compromise.
5. Schroedinger's stadium's lack of capacity is not the reason it is not full.

Edit: Also to add, point 3 above is obviously a long term strategy (won't work otherwise) So again, not short term at all.
 
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Zephiisdaman

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Nov 22, 2010
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I have no desire to got to the Antarctic and I have no desire to go to Ballarat to watch a game of football. I have openly been against the games in Ballarat right from the time it was announced.
The stadium is not up to current AFL standard, the game is seriously affected by weather, the public transport home is average at best and of course there is no pleasure in enduring frigid conditions there.
My thoughts would be that we play our JLT games there, have clinics and club functions there.
 
Having said that, there are still a few FACTS here:
1. The Club, who know our financials better than anyone pretends to on here, have determined that we need the extra cash flow into the club. We simply can't give up the cash we get by playing away from Etihad. To say this is short term cash grab is pretty narrow sighted, because this money can be invested into the club in other ways. Be that football department spending, be that infrastructure, be that facilities, etc. It's certainly a lot less "short term" than losing money by playing at Etihad.....
2. Ballarat is a lot closer to most of our members than other possible locations to sell games so it most definitely provides most of our members the best chance to attend. If you accept point one above (which you should as it's true) then Ballarat is the best option available for memeber attendance. I don't see how anyone could logically argue otherwise.
3. With Ballarat's proximity to the Western Suburbs it certainly provides the most likely location to grow membership numbers for the club. So again, if you accept point one (which you should as it's true) then Ballarat is the best option available for membership growth. Again, I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.
4. If you don't want to attend Ballarat, you have two replacement games you can attend. I believe this is a pretty fair compromise.
5. Schroedinger's stadium's lack of capacity is not the reason it is not full.

Edit: Also to add, point 3 above is obviously a long term strategy (won't work otherwise) So again, not short term at all.
Interesting FACTS
1. Any selling of games for cash is a short term cash grab. It is needed for long term survival and we have made money selling games to Cairns, Darwin and Canberra and now Ballarat. Therefore, given we do need the cashflow which option provides the most money and the most sustainable funds. Even Richmond sol;d games to Cairns for cash, no long term strategy there, just needed the cash to get through until they could be self sufficient 100% in Melbourne
2. Why is it better for Member attendance? just as it is closer does not make it better. It is this assumption, I don't see how anyone could logically argue otherwise, that is part of the problem. Just as many member were happy for a holiday mid season in Cairns or in Darwin. Ballarat is not a holiday destination in winter and the facilities provide no comfort for members when they get there. Maybe the lack of member attendance should provide the logical argument, which is most current members don't want to go there
3. How can you not argue against membership growth. Simply put its proximity to all 10 clubs will make this difficult but just having 2 games there per year will not add any membership growth that would not be achieved by just being involved in the community, which must also occur much closer to home, the actual out western suburbs which are our actual demographic
4. Nice for you. Given we have between 15,000 to 20,000 seat holders who do not get access to these seats at replacement games you may like being treated like the little kid who should just accept compromise when you are contributing $2,000 plus for a family set of memberships inclusive of seats
5. points 2 and 3 will never occur even if all other aspects are sorted out in a stadium that is barely capable of holding a VFL crowd in comfort
 

VogonProsthetnic

Norm Smith Medallist
Apr 26, 2010
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Let’s face if these games weren’t in Ballarat- they would’ve been in Cairns.

Having been to both venues I would say that the Ballarat people were a lot more invested in the footy than the Cairns ones were. Cairns people appeared bemused than anything.

I enjoyed both venues- it’s very rare that you get to interact so closely with the players, the game and the officials. Can’t believe anybody would prefer sitting in the top deck at the MCG trying to work out what is happening than being in touching distance to anAFL game.

Ps For all those complaining about us members getting ripped off. I got an under cover seat within touching distance of our interchange bench for $27 no less. Booked it on Friday!

Ask any Richmond or Hawks member who have to pay $50-70 on top of their membership just to reserve a seat if they can get that?
 
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Mattdougie

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There's been some teething problems, no doubt. The initial ticket pricing was one, which the club has already put their hand up and said they got wrong. So that has been taken care of. The second has been scheduling which the AFL have got completely wrong. Firstly it has to be early or late season and secondly it can't be on a Saturday (local footy) and thirdly it can't be the late game (dissuades Melbourne folk). Let's see next year if AFL schedule it as the early Sunday game in a warmer month... if they do, I'd would be confident in saying the crowd numbers would be a lot more respectable (not that I think they're that important at this stage of the excursion).

Having said that, there are still a few FACTS here:
1. The Club, who know our financials better than anyone pretends to on here, have determined that we need the extra cash flow into the club. We simply can't give up the cash we get by playing away from Etihad. To say this is short term cash grab is pretty narrow sighted, because this money can be invested into the club in other ways. Be that football department spending, be that infrastructure, be that facilities, etc. It's certainly a lot less "short term" than losing money by playing at Etihad.....
2. Ballarat is a lot closer to most of our members than other possible locations to sell games so it most definitely provides most of our members the best chance to attend. If you accept point one above (which you should as it's true) then Ballarat is the best option available for memeber attendance. I don't see how anyone could logically argue otherwise.
3. With Ballarat's proximity to the Western Suburbs it certainly provides the most likely location to grow membership numbers for the club. So again, if you accept point one (which you should as it's true) then Ballarat is the best option available for membership growth. Again, I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise.
4. If you don't want to attend Ballarat, you have two replacement games you can attend. I believe this is a pretty fair compromise.
5. Schroedinger's stadium's lack of capacity is not the reason it is not full.

Edit: Also to add, point 3 above is obviously a long term strategy (won't work otherwise) So again, not short term at all.


And this is how you post and not have one word of it correct.

Every single point is wrong and the attempted sarcasm is not even up to scratch.

1- financials are available to everyone, playing China game would make us the same money

2- stat may be closer but no one wants to go there and at least the other options include the SUN and a small break for those that go

3-proximity to grow membership? Lol what’s won’t with Werribee and it’s 20 surroundings suburbs???

4- members shouldn’t have to be told what games they can and can’t attend and then be made to pay more to attend one they don’t want

5- no it’s isnt. It’s coz it’s cold, and no one wants to be there. Locals or members and voting with a resounding up yours!!!!

6- you are disagreeing because of the names who are agreeing that’s plain and simple.

Lol 50 year plan to dominate Ballarat !! Jut brilliant.
 
Caller on SEN related her 2 friends travelled up there yesterday. There was extra trains put on to get there, but no extra trains to get home - WTF?!?!? Friends missed the 6.01pm and had to wait for next.

No point putting extra trains on prior as people arrive in a stagger but most will go home at the same time as a group. Dumb.
 

Mattdougie

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Can’t wait til we start hitting the western suburbs of Adelaide for fans.

I mean because we have “western” in our name that’s clearly our area the same as western Victoria somehow is now.

We are from Footscray, the WESTERN suburbs of Melbourne and if anyone thinks that moniker will confuse people from western Victoria that we are their team they honestly live in dream land.
 
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Interesting FACTS
1. Any selling of games for cash is a short term cash grab. It is needed for long term survival and we have made money selling games to Cairns, Darwin and Canberra and now Ballarat. Therefore, given we do need the cashflow which option provides the most money and the most sustainable funds. Even Richmond sol;d games to Cairns for cash, no long term strategy there, just needed the cash to get through until they could be self sufficient 100% in Melbourne
2. Why is it better for Member attendance? just as it is closer does not make it better. It is this assumption, I don't see how anyone could logically argue otherwise, that is part of the problem. Just as many member were happy for a holiday mid season in Cairns or in Darwin. Ballarat is not a holiday destination in winter and the facilities provide no comfort for members when they get there. Maybe the lack of member attendance should provide the logical argument, which is most current members don't want to go there
3. How can you not argue against membership growth. Simply put its proximity to all 10 clubs will make this difficult but just having 2 games there per year will not add any membership growth that would not be achieved by just being involved in the community, which must also occur much closer to home, the actual out western suburbs which are our actual demographic
4. Nice for you. Given we have between 15,000 to 20,000 seat holders who do not get access to these seats at replacement games you may like being treated like the little kid who should just accept compromise when you are contributing $2,000 plus for a family set of memberships inclusive of seats
5. points 2 and 3 will never occur even if all other aspects are sorted out in a stadium that is barely capable of holding a VFL crowd in comfort

1. You've asked a question that provides no answer, seemlingly supporting my argument. As I said, the cash can be invested in the club to provide long term security. Certainly more long term than losing money at Etihat, which you ignored.
2. If you think Cairns provides the opportunity for more members to attend than Ballarat then please provide some kind of reasoning. Proximity is a logical reasoning that supports my argument. Certainly more logical than saying more people would be happy to spend hundreds to go north but then shirked at a $25 ticket. Unless you have data that the rest of us haven't seen you can't say that member attendance is lower at Ballarat than Cairns. If you do have this data, please provide.
3. That's a very cynical and negative viewpoint in my opinion but agree to disagree. We've seen when other clubs have put in grassroots support to an area plus games, over time it has resulted in additional memberships. The scope for this growth is greater in B'rat than Cairns (or elsewhere) due to the proximity to the club.
4. I think the only people acting like little kids are the ones spitting their dummies out in this thread.
5. Again, cynical and negative. Agree to disagree, but you're talking schroedingers stadium again.
 

Mattdougie

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Interesting FACTS
1. Any selling of games for cash is a short term cash grab. It is needed for long term survival and we have made money selling games to Cairns, Darwin and Canberra and now Ballarat. Therefore, given we do need the cashflow which option provides the most money and the most sustainable funds. Even Richmond sol;d games to Cairns for cash, no long term strategy there, just needed the cash to get through until they could be self sufficient 100% in Melbourne
2. Why is it better for Member attendance? just as it is closer does not make it better. It is this assumption, I don't see how anyone could logically argue otherwise, that is part of the problem. Just as many member were happy for a holiday mid season in Cairns or in Darwin. Ballarat is not a holiday destination in winter and the facilities provide no comfort for members when they get there. Maybe the lack of member attendance should provide the logical argument, which is most current members don't want to go there
3. How can you not argue against membership growth. Simply put its proximity to all 10 clubs will make this difficult but just having 2 games there per year will not add any membership growth that would not be achieved by just being involved in the community, which must also occur much closer to home, the actual out western suburbs which are our actual demographic
4. Nice for you. Given we have between 15,000 to 20,000 seat holders who do not get access to these seats at replacement games you may like being treated like the little kid who should just accept compromise when you are contributing $2,000 plus for a family set of memberships inclusive of seats
5. points 2 and 3 will never occur even if all other aspects are sorted out in a stadium that is barely capable of holding a VFL crowd in comfort


Pointless mate

They backed this idea and can’t back down now so just throw meaningless “facts” out and accuse everyone else of dummy spitting. Anyone that has had any experience in running a club or business can see this deal is a huge potato.

They can premise any argument with “long term” but that’s just an excuse to cover the it’s not working now.

The FACT is there has been a resounding vote by locals and members that says they are not interested and the ego driven respondents will not admit defeat to certain posters no matter how much evidence there is.
 

DelRe

Club Legend
Jan 29, 2017
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A lot of what you say I don't disagree with the sentiment, and as posted before I don't actually want it to fail as an I told you so scenario would actually put the club at risk.

My biggest issue is there appears to be no clearly defined result or outcome for the club that requires the cornerstone to be giving up home games for the 20,000 plus members who already pay for seats, as well as the 50 or so sponsors, neither of which come close to be accommodated with the Ballarat deal.

The only 2 selling or moving of home games that have resulted in greater support bases are Hawthorn and to a lesser extent North. The main reason for their success is the entire state would have no AFL football and in fact Aussie rules as a code has little to no direction down there so picking up supporters is a possibility.

For the people of Ballarat to travel to AFL games in Melbourne or Geelong they only need travel just over an hour to follow any one of 10 teams. There is no compelling reason for them or their kids for that matter to switch allegiances because we play 2 home and away games there each year. Therefore, the only outcome or result that makes any possible sense given the inadequate infrastructure at the ground is it is a cash grab.

The club never had the identity Western. It was a marketing folly of the past that has no substance to it. In fact part of the rational of the Ballarat move was due to earlier administrations no capitalising on the marketing ploy, not the fact that the whole basis was just a marketing fad of the 90's we will never recognise as a mistake and it is too late now to change it back.

One thing is your comfort in execs and their decisions. We have turned over a fair few of them so I am not as comfortable as you are in the spin they put out. However, in saying that the AFL itself is implicit in this whole venture as we are more dependant than others on their funding. Allowing these games to go ahead in a stadium whose facilities are not even close to adequate for the home teams fan base let alone opposition, and the supposed new fan base they are trying to attract, scheduling games up against the local comp or late Sunday in July, there is not much the Bulldogs administration can do to make this work whilst those restrictions are in place
The new logo has the Bulldog ‘looking to the West’ and its initiative was ‘that the western region of Melbourne is the club’s heartland’ so I would say the club does now associate the concept of western with its visual identity (whether or not as a supporter you support it). I’m not suggesting Ballarat is part of the western region of Melbourne - it’s a city in its own right - but it does naturally align with that as a concept. So if you combine that with getting better financial returns then it comes together. It’s unfortunate that bad form, weather and fixturing have not provided the best platform for it but unless the club can get a better return for playing back at Etihad I can’t see an immediate reason to go back.

I still don’t see how it prevents the club from investing in its heartland so I don’t see a loss there - although I would adamantly oppose playing at Ballarat at the cost of playing at a revamped WO for boutique smaller games.

I come back to if you don’t play at Ballarat what do you do? Ultimately this is only two games as well. I’m not aware of an intention to expand beyond that.
 

Mr. Walker

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Apr 15, 2002
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Hopefully we hit on a successful strategy soon. I applaude the club for trying something. We have 43,000 members, Richmond has 100,000 (+or-) so we need to do something to try and fund the resources we need to compete. We tried Cairns, Darwin, Canberra (?) and never stuck at it for one reason or another. I hope the club analyses the matches this year and moves forward. We need to grow revenue and members and the club is attempting to do that. doing nothing is not an option.
 
Once we get back to being finals contenders - soon! - and playing attractive and winning! football, with maybe a couple of star Brownlow prospects, or AAs, grabbing headlines, we will surely attract good crowds. At the moment, even the most dedicated supporters have no anticipation that we might put on a decent show.

(How we got over Geelong I will never know)
 

Pugz89

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Jun 29, 2015
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Hi Dogwatch, I'm sure we've met many times before. Well, at least now I know one member who wants to go to a game in Ballarat, but still none who've actually been. I hope you can make the trip down next year, that'll boost the attendance up to 6452 and coming from Canberra you'll already be prepared for the weather, the country match atmosphere and the spartan facilities :D

As I said earlier, in my sphere of family, friends, and acquaintances of 40 -50 Dogs members and supporters none of them have been or want to go. This includes people who attend almost all Melbourne based games, club functions, training etc. In fact it's a lively topic of conversation amongst us and most of the commentary is anything but complimentary of the club for taking us in this direction.

Our attendance for home games at Etihad during 2016 averaged almost 33k. For the 4 games against interstate teams we averaged just over 27k. Unfortunately the key to our attendances is having a competitive, successful team out on the park. How would those crowd figures translate financially under whatever the new deal is at Etihad with the AFL ? Who knows !!

AFL matches played in front of crowds the size of yesterday's are an embarrassment. The stark contrast with the crowd that went to the MCG on Saturday makes you wonder if we're even playing in the same competition. Not that we're in anywhere near the same stratosphere of support as the Tigers and Pies, but if we continue down this path we'll just wither on the vine.

For the most part the people who are supporting or making arguments for playing in Ballarat are generally making fairly good cases, but the reality is that the vast majority of our 43,300 members and assorted supporters have voted with their feet and put them up on the couch.
Hi Dogs13, I am Pugz89 and I have been to two of the three regular season games at Ballarat and I quite enjoy the atmosphere and the smaller ground experience. I even pay extra for the Ballarat add-on, as part of my membership too.
 
The new logo has the Bulldog ‘looking to the West’ and its initiative was ‘that the western region of Melbourne is the club’s heartland’ so I would say the club does now associate the concept of western with its visual identity (whether or not as a supporter you support it). I’m not suggesting Ballarat is part of the western region of Melbourne - it’s a city in its own right - but it does naturally align with that as a concept. So if you combine that with getting better financial returns then it comes together. It’s unfortunate that bad form, weather and fixturing have not provided the best platform for it but unless the club can get a better return for playing back at Etihad I can’t see an immediate reason to go back.

I still don’t see how it prevents the club from investing in its heartland so I don’t see a loss there - although I would adamantly oppose playing at Ballarat at the cost of playing at a revamped WO for boutique smaller games.

I come back to if you don’t play at Ballarat what do you do? Ultimately this is only two games as well. I’m not aware of an intention to expand beyond that.
Ironically there has really only been one genuinely successful strategy to grow your base, that is to be successful on field. 18 other teams are trying that too so you do need to look elsewhere.

Fully agree with your comments re WO, I think the difference is we can sell a pup to governments to fund development in Ballarat as it could sway an election, harder to do for the WO so though we would both prefer this I can't see us getting the funding to do it.

At this stage it appears we do need to sell games or a game. This was of course before the AFL purchased the stadium and commenced re negotiating term. Unless the numbers have been re done with the new agreement that still is yet to be signed off. If we do get a clean stadium under the new deal, sponsorship and advertising would more than cover the cost of small crowds at Docklands.

However, if this is not the case which we do not know yet, if we can make at least as much from selling one game anywhere, as opposed to 2 games, do that where ever it is.

Then ensure we do invest fully in the heartland and the differing parts of the heartland.

My issue with the slogan is we are trying to develop strategies to justify the slogan, when we were already here and no slogan changes that.
 

Martyn_30_

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Sep 14, 2007
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AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
It was the coldest game I’ve ever been to, the big screen wasn’t working and with substandard lighting it wasn’t not a great experience. The facilities aren’t good enough to play more than game a season there unless it’s early in the year, both this year and last there was mud in the non grandstand areas which if you’ve grown up going to Etihad probably isn’t going to bring people back.


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Zephiisdaman

Cancelled
Nov 22, 2010
2,208
1,614
Whitten Oval
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Prefer to go back to Darwin. We were making good inroads with the people there.
Personally the trip there was a nice mid winter holiday. All the dogs fans from Melbourne loved it there.
I understand that the humidity made the game a little hard to watch and recovery was tough. But for fan experience Darwin was clearly the best.
 

Bulldogsnm1

All Australian
Aug 23, 2006
910
413
Altona
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Other Teams
GWS
Once we get back to being finals contenders - soon! - and playing attractive and winning! football, with maybe a couple of star Brownlow prospects, or AAs, grabbing headlines, we will surely attract good crowds. At the moment, even the most dedicated supporters have no anticipation that we might put on a decent show.

(How we got over Geelong I will never know)

And therein lies the rub......

We become very successful, our membership increases to 50,000, the AFL schedules the game in April, expectations are huge.... and the damn ground only holds 11,500.

it is a dumb decision either way it cant be justified. Gordon needs to wriggle out of it, hopefully by way of the AFL saying the ground is not of a suitable standard for games for premiership points.

(here is an idea, maybe the AFL can trial the new rules there, they can be sure no one will go and watch)
 

TiAn_

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 19, 2006
7,415
18,931
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
1. You've asked a question that provides no answer, seemlingly supporting my argument. As I said, the cash can be invested in the club to provide long term security. Certainly more long term than losing money at Etihat, which you ignored.
2. If you think Cairns provides the opportunity for more members to attend than Ballarat then please provide some kind of reasoning. Proximity is a logical reasoning that supports my argument. Certainly more logical than saying more people would be happy to spend hundreds to go north but then shirked at a $25 ticket. Unless you have data that the rest of us haven't seen you can't say that member attendance is lower at Ballarat than Cairns. If you do have this data, please provide.
3. That's a very cynical and negative viewpoint in my opinion but agree to disagree. We've seen when other clubs have put in grassroots support to an area plus games, over time it has resulted in additional memberships. The scope for this growth is greater in B'rat than Cairns (or elsewhere) due to the proximity to the club.
4. I think the only people acting like little kids are the ones spitting their dummies out in this thread.
5. Again, cynical and negative. Agree to disagree, but you're talking schroedingers stadium again.

When you have someone actually saying that a game an hour’s drive out of Melbourne is worse for member attendance than Cairns, you're not dealing with a rational argument.

Norf's game at Cazaly's this year was played in terrible weather and drew a massive crowd of 3722.

What a shame we missed out on that fantastic opportunity.
 
It was the coldest game I’ve ever been to, the big screen wasn’t working and with substandard lighting it wasn’t not a great experience. The facilities aren’t good enough to play more than game a season there unless it’s early in the year, both this year and last there was mud in the non grandstand areas which if you’ve grown up going to Etihad probably isn’t going to bring people back.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

So, a great day all round. That's the pioneer spirit, right there :grin:
 
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