WAR CRIMES - Afghanistan * Ben Roberts Smith files an appeal

19 Nov 202011.13 AEDT

Brereton report finds alleged unlawful killing of 39 people.

Justice Brereton considered in a detailed 57 allegations of incidents and issues.

Campbell says he found there to be “credible information to substantiate 23 incidents of alleged unlawful killing of 39 people by 25 Australian Special Forces personnel, predominantly from the Special Air Service Regiment”.

Link to Ben Roberts Smith defamation JUDGEMENT SUMMARY and FULL JUDGEMENT in pdf
 
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Australia's SAS have run amok in Afghanistan according to a leaked report, using “unsanctioned and illegal application of violence” during operations, showing “disregard for human life and dignity”.

Blooding rituals, executions of unarmed civilians and taking souvenirs - a prosthetic leg which was used as a drinking vessel at SAS headquarters in Perth, just some of the allegations.

What else can we expect really, we've trained them for it.

'He was dead and there was a gun laying with him'

Allegations of Australian war crimes in Afghanistan 'being taken seriously'

Australian SAS under scrutiny after allegations unarmed Afghan men killed
 
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Mar 21, 2016
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Your last line is what stops me condemning some actions in war zones. If criminal actions are found to have happened I hope they are prosecuted but with an understanding of the areas they work in

No easy answer
 
If you think the act of war can be civilised then you are deluding yourself. It's ugly and violent.

Nobody really wants to know what happens, a perfectly executed operation against a legitimate target handled efficiently and professionally described in its dramatic and graphic truth would horrify people.

People want to be safe and keep the violence over the wall that hides them from the darkness.
 
Mar 21, 2016
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Their existence in Afghanistan in criminal. Don't try and imply they're over there for some noble cause..
I am not. I am suggesting to you if you want to raise political issues then take it to the SRP board. This is about the criminality of the soldiers actions ( if they are deemed so)
 
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Nobody really wants to know what happens, a perfectly executed operation against a legitimate target handled efficiently and professionally described in its dramatic and graphic truth would horrify people.
Even within those parameters there will be some criminal acts committed. The boundaries blur at times in the heat of the moment
 
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Your last line is what stops me condemning some actions in war zones. If criminal actions are found to have happened I hope they are prosecuted but with an understanding of the areas they work in

No easy answer

Not a lot of people talking about it over social media, not even twitter after Leigh Sales on 7.30 gave it some air. It's an uncomfortable subject and I think most people understand the complexities without ever having worn a soldiers boots.

ADF special forces in my extended family, he came back from Afghanistan and everybody thought he was fine .. for a little while. Then he unravelled, completely.

I find it hard to condemn even with these kinds of stories coming out now will hold back, suspect they need to look at command.
 

Bomberboyokay

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I have no doubt that if Australia was on the losing end of the conflict we would hear about far more, far worse acts that were allegedly done by soldiers acting for Australia.

'Whatabout'-ing war crimes? Good grief. If Defence is doing it's own report about it it means the soldiers really ****ed up.
 
'Whatabout'-ing war crimes? Good grief.
You might be getting caught up in the latest buzz word, whataboutism doesn't really work when I'm talking about the exact same people but the context is changed to one where Australia isn't a history defining victor.

The not so subtle point is that those people hanged at Nuremberg wouldn't have had German names if the 3rd Reich had won, but we would still look at them as war criminals because that is how it was described.

The entire process is to delude each other that we are somehow the prevailing civilised group, when the reality is that all sides commit horrible acts and if the results of the conflict were reversed they would be held to greater account for it.
 

Bomberboyokay

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You might be getting caught up in the latest buzz word, whataboutism doesn't really work when I'm talking about the exact same people but the context is changed to one where Australia isn't a history defining victor.

The not so subtle point is that those people hanged at Nuremberg wouldn't have had German names if the 3rd Reich had won, but we would still look at them as war criminals because that is how it was described.

The entire process is to delude each other that we are somehow the prevailing civilised group, when the reality is that all sides commit horrible acts and if the results of the conflict were reversed they would be held to greater account for it.

This is a great conversation but I'm not Procrastinator35.
 

MaddAdam

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This is very good: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...flour-he-never-came-home-20180607-p4zk38.html

Crompvoets, Sengelman and Campbell all declined to be interviewed. But by the end of 2016, all three were acutely aware that one SASR soldier was being whispered about more than most. He had deployed repeatedly to Afghanistan and formed impeccable connections up the chain of command.

One SASR officer, to himself, called this man "Leonidas", after a fearsome warrior of ancient Sparta. Leonidas was part of the sweep through Darwan on September 11, 2012. And it was Leonidas who had allegedly led Ali Jan to the edge.

Questions inside the regiment about Leonidas, who Fairfax Media unsuccessfully sought to interview and who cannot be named for legal reasons, began to be asked in 2009. At the time, he was part of an SASR patrol that was increasingly dividing the regiment. A warrior culture was being embraced by some special forces troops but loathed by others. It involved tattoos and a devotion to the Hollywood movie 300, which glorifies the fighting prowess of the ancient Spartans, and whose climactic moment involves an enemy soldier being kicked off a precipice.

A lot of people would be shocked if they knew who that is.

Also, it doesn't take a genius to work it out.
 

MaddAdam

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Can the Army take Medals off soldiers?

They certainly can.

Taking Leonidas medals off him would be a massive deal.

In fact, hmmm, maybe the Queen would have to do that.
 
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If you think the act of war can be civilised then you are deluding yourself. It's ugly and violent.

Nobody really wants to know what happens, a perfectly executed operation against a legitimate target handled efficiently and professionally described in its dramatic and graphic truth would horrify people.

People want to be safe and keep the violence over the wall that hides them from the darkness.

People are sold the illusion of safety. Can you really ever be safe and trust the systems that "protect" you? I mean who really trusts anyone?

People would rather brush it away and pretend it never happens and if that pretending means the violence is dealt with in some foreign village against a bunch of Arabs so be it. Nothing quite like sleeping safe and feeling superior.
 

Iworkthecircus

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People are sold the illusion of safety. Can you really ever be safe and trust the systems that "protect" you? I mean who really trusts anyone?

People would rather brush it away and pretend it never happens and if that pretending means the violence is dealt with in some foreign village against a bunch of Arabs so be it. Nothing quite like sleeping safe and feeling superior.

When I questioned someone I no about Iraq I was told better to * up there land first then ours. Ie oil
That's the mentality of society unfortunately.
 
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