Bluemour Discussion Thread XI - Facts Not Welcome

[RoyalParade]

Not enough faith in sos to get it done
He hasn't let us down yet

Something is always better than nothing. I'm not concerned in the slightest with this PP news.

The RoyalBlues news has me excited!

 

[jd2010]

Unless we deal with Sydney to turn two picks into one first rounder we won’t be getting MM which is no big deal. Next years first round pick for Shiel and then do something to get Setterfield. Need them both more than we do MM

 

[PrinceCharles]

I still think we get a PP.

The AFL came out and said for carlton to apply, they cant then say no. It would be rediculous.

But then again it is the AFL, the make rules as they go

This state league players is BS! Everyone has been so caught up with Tim Kelly this year, but every year multiple state league players get picked up and i would say 80% turn out to be nothing.

Some kind of Essendon conspiracy?

 

[gbatman]

GB, yes we do, but good clubs are able to pick up quality players from beyond the first round.

If we’re unable to pick quality from rounds outside the first round, then that shows we’re basically inept.

And if we can’t pick quality after the first round then no amount of draft picks will improve us. If that’s the case, then almost prefer the AFL step in and manage the joint rather than give us assistance picks.

I trust SOS to pick up a Kelly from the State league.

We’ve has assistance over the years - Walker was a PP (which came in the year after we received penalties), as was Kruz.

The reason we are where we are is because of poor picks between 2009 to 2014. Prefer to be a club that picks smart, rather than thinking we can only get quality from high draft picks.


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We aren't crap because of a lack of numbers, we're crap because we're young, we've just caught up to a point where the young ones will mature into a good 22 and we can replace outgoing older players as they go.

Good sides are loaded with players from the first round, don't get sucked into the talk they they do it all with later picks. They do it with both.

We have a lot of the talent we already need. With the time we have left we should be focused on bringing in very elite talent with every opportunity we get.

I don't think that state league players will have big impacts in bottom sides. They generally end up filling a role as good bit players in strong sides when they succeed and those players are rare.

We might find a slight upgrade to Kerridge in the state leagues, we won't be finding someone who will have a massive impact for us. Perhaps another Wright or slight upgrade to him if we are very fortunate.

To be good we need to make the most of everything we have had and we have, that's why we are much further advanced than people think. We're probably only 4 or 5 really top level players away and some time from being a really good side.

I'll say it again. We do not need numbers, we do not need mature bodies for the sake of being mature bodies we need quality.

Seriously, what is the AFL afraid of? Making a side that has not played finals since 2013 a side which may push for finals? The way the PP is sooked about here and the tightness of the AFL you would think we are being handed the next 5 premierships.

 

[Spawn1905]

FİFA sits in the corner and giggles at you.

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Fifa has got nothing over the AFL.


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[BlueRenaissance]

Around pick 19 for McGovern or let him slip by. Not worth overpaying in a rebuild process.

I dont care about the PP because i dont want them shelling them out like sweets when we are at the top.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Just a general observation....would a club like us be looking at state league players during the year, or more likely to focus on under 18 year olds due to out likely hand in the draft?

I would have thought we wouldn't be looking for mature players in state leagues, but instead at trade targets for mature recruits.

 

[Funk]

Makes it easy for Hawthorn now,they give their first pick for McGovern.

Funny about that.

Ex Hawk President is a Commissioner

 

[ShanDog]

Around pick 19 for McGovern or let him slip by. Not worth overpaying in a rebuild process.

I dont care about the PP because i dont want them shelling them out like sweets when we are at the top.

Yep I agree about McGovern. If we can't conjure a pick around that mark with good pick trades that don't involve pick 1, then we shouldn't be going anywhere near him.

 

[Funk]

What happened to Santa???

Rudolph kicked him in the nuts....

 

[Crippa#9]

Spot on Post is Spot on

Agree. Absolutely staggered at this decision.
FFS, only TWO state league players in the entire country were invited to the national combine next month. Only TWO! Remember it’s the recruiters who do the inviting.

Then you get idiots like Andy Maher on the radio last week endorsing the idea as brilliant. He thinks, rather naively, there’s a bunch of Tim Kelly’s running around in state leagues every year...

I’ve never been one for bashing the AFL, but they’ve been as weak as p*** here. Totally manipulated by media & talkback radio and not bold or strong enough to make a decision that needed to made for both Carlton & GC.

The decision is roughly equivalent to us receiving a priority pick midway through the 3rd round.

Pointless.

Fuming.

 

[Funk]

I'd like to do something unique with steven may........

So would Stefan Martin.....

 

[RoyalParade]

Yep I agree about McGovern. If we can't conjure a pick around that mark with good pick trades that don't involve pick 1, then we shouldn't be going anywhere near him.

MM and Carlton are committed. SOS will get the trade done. I'm sure the deal has been worked on before the PP even became a possibility.

 

[gardiner stand]

Andrew Walker was a priority pick.
Matthew Kreuzer also was a priority pick.

Hawthorn and Collingwood's success with lower draft picks, development and all round better recruiting led them to their flags.

This is the undeniable truth! Our development and coaching programs have been pathetic for a very long time.
Hopefully it’s changed the last couple of years

 

[Thehurdle]

I don’t know enough to make an assessment of the special assistance yet. Overseas, so missing some local media and may have missed the key publications, but as I read the Barrett article on the AFL website:
1. We get ‘at least’ one mature age pick - don’t know how many more, if any;
2. “Full details of the assistance packages are still being analysed” - so it remains incomplete;
3. Even if CAR gets 1 outside the draft pick only - it seems clear it is ‘part of’ an assistance package. What else? Salary cap relief (to outbid others), PP, larger lists etc.
At least in theory one can say for CAR 2 mature age picks might be better (and reflect our worse performance) that the Lions pick 19 in 2016.

One clever aspect of this is that it isn’t perceived to be depriving other clubs of anything if the players are offered up in an auction, as they can bid for these players from CAR/GCS, in effect opting to take them at their pick level rather than setting anyone back. It doesn’t appear to deprive anyone of anything if the mature players are traded, rather it generates an extra pick or 2 for the CAR/GCS. The bigger complaint is likely to come if CAR or GCS hold the mature players.

Trying to set emotion to one side, my hunch is to let this play out before leaping to judgment. It may be confined to 1 outside the draft pick but that’s not how Barrett’s carefully worded article reads to me.

Edit: Have since seen The Age article - more definitive, 2 mature state league players. IF these were worth pick 25 and 40 (not saying they are, woudn’t know), that’s a point equivalent of pack 14. Not out of the question as a reasonable solution. Clearly we always want more, but something better than the point value of pick 19 as in the ball park.

 

[Funk]

It's not like we aren't getting assistance. We will get access to 2 x state league players which when you look at our list is logical. We have a great group of young talent. That isn't our issue. We need mature bodies.

Just disappointing after so many experts were saying we would getting Pick 5, 12 or 19. Indian givers

We need mature AFL bodies (not VFL ones).

 

[Jabba73]

Tell adelaide it's pick 26 for Mclovin or else see you later. That's all he's worth regardless if he's contracted.

Been banging that drum for a while.

No one can explain how MM became a ‘must have’ player when given the following:
1. He is a third tall, not a key forward
2. He has played 5 more games than Jack Silvagni with almost identical output, yet he is 3 years older
3. We need mids, mids and then more mids unless it is a special kind of player
4. He wants out of the Crows, we didn’t court him while happily in contract

 

[Soapy V]

We need mature AFL bodies (not VFL ones).

Get the right ones and there is no difference

 

[Stiffler's Dad]

Been some pretty handy players drafted as mature age recruits.

Jeremy McGovern, Mitch McGovern, Isaac Smith, Harry Taylor, Barlow, Jeremy Howe, Adam Saad, Ben Brown, Puopolo, Zorko.

This is fine if you have a perfectly functioning crystal ball.
Our list spots are priceless.
I don't want to be perennially shuffling the deck chairs on the proverbial Titanic.

 

[LanceRomance]

MM and Carlton are committed. SOS will get the trade done. I'm sure the deal has been worked on before the PP even became a possibility.

You should take that to the Adelaide board

 

[Nori]

So the pp system is effectively dead. It's hard to imagine any circumstances under which a club could now qualify, unless of course GCS we sitting alone at the bottom of the ladder.

At least no one will be able to attribute Carlton's 17th to any meaningful assistance from the AFL.

 

[CFC_#17]

**** the AFL,

So the pp system is effectively dead. It's hard to imagine any circumstances under which a club could now qualify, unless of course GCS we sitting alone at the bottom of the ladder.

At least no one will be able to attribute Carlton's 17th to any meaningful assistance from the AFL.

they will still find a away to complain.

 

[Gethelred]

MM and Carlton are committed. SOS will get the trade done. I'm sure the deal has been worked on before the PP even became a possibility.

Um, what?

I've seen this said a few times, but I really don't see how. Why exactly would SOS be any less than honest to both McGovern and Adelaide before this news in saying to them that what our offer is depends entirely on our PP application's success/failure, and that what we offer to them would be based purely off our available resources? If we offer pick 26, and they say no, truly who cares? McGovern? He's out of there or they have to deal with a) a potential lawsuit from a player attempting to sever a contract based on OHS law potentially contravened by the Collective Minds camp, or b) Hawthorn, and probably accept less money. They ain't keeping him. He doesn't want to be there.

Describe to me exactly how we're committed in that circumstance.

 

[Stamos]

The Age is a bit more definitive. The Suns and us each get 2 players, no PP

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...ers-but-no-priority-pick-20180924-p505r2.html

Still doesn’t explain if there is a mini-draft or we can just list them like Delisted Free Agents

 

[LanceRomance]

Um, what?

I've seen this said a few times, but I really don't see how. Why exactly would SOS be any less than honest to both McGovern and Adelaide before this news in saying to them that what our offer is depends entirely on our PP application's success/failure, and that what we offer to them would be based purely off our available resources? If we offer pick 26, and they say no, truly who cares? McGovern? He's out of there or they have to deal with a) a potential lawsuit from a player attempting to sever a contract based on OHS law potentially contravened by the Collective Minds camp, or b) Hawthorn, and probably accept less money. They ain't keeping him. He doesn't want to be there.

Describe to me exactly how we're committed in that circumstance.

Carlton have been working on him for 2 years