List Mgmt. 2018 Draft, Free Agency & Trade Hypotheticals thread, Part II: Nothing happened!

[Mick Oxlong]

Where will the currency come from?
Collingwood have nothing to give and need points for Kelly and Quaynor.
Hawthorn likewise - no high quality picks and probably have less tradeable depth

The AFL has to get hold of this. Contracted players should only be able to speak to an opposition club once a trade value has been agreed... or just admit it’s a national comp in name only

Equalization...derrrr!

 

[DST]

So if you dont spend 95, say 92, tha AFL receives the 3% difference and gives it back to the players at the sme club. Hmmm, wonder how many times that has happened. Bit of a loophole

Not since Melbourne pre the rule, it was bought in to stop clubs from doing it.


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[swannyfan]

Where will the currency come from?
Collingwood have nothing to give and need points for Kelly and Quaynor.
Hawthorn likewise - no high quality picks and probably have less tradeable depth

The AFL has to get hold of this. Contracted players should only be able to speak to an opposition club once a trade value has been agreed... or just admit it’s a national comp in name only

Agree there. Speculation though is:
- scully to hawfs has been touted for pick 53
- wingard for pick 15 + burton to port
- as for beams to pies..could be all airy fairy! Though where Vics are concerned, anything goes at the moment.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Agree there. Speculation though is:
- scully to hawfs has been touted for pick 53
- wingard for pick 15 + burton to port
- as for beams to pies..could be all airy fairy! Though where Vics are concerned, anything goes at the moment.

Scully for 53? Not ******* likely, they’re talking 1st rounder. It actually goes to show how we were bent over!

 

[swannyfan]

Scully for 53? Not ******* likely, they’re talking 1st rounder.

Yup..per ralphy...the contract is 4 yrs for pick 53. If true, gws' cap must be more **** than ours!

 

[Tedeski]

Oh well we got naismith to sign for 3 more years so phew.

Next they will give horse a new 5 year deal

Hopefully just 3.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Yup..per ralphy...the contract is 4 yrs for pick 53. If true, gws' cap must be more **** than ours!

Trade radio today, literally all of them (they are a diverse bunch of merchant bankers) agreed 1st round. Ralph, yeah well, enough said really.

Yes, their cap is ****ed but the AFL should be answerable to that. They’re the ones that gave them license to recruit Top 10 talent. Imagine if Franklin was there!

 

[Bloods]

Nice re-write of history. Hanners was worth every bit of that $800k when he signed back at the end of 2016 as a multiple All Australian at the peak of his career at 25.

Wingard is heading to the Hawks after a couple of poor seasons and an attitude problem.

Nice try, go again.


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I hate AA as a measuring stick. Total wank of an award in my view but I agree on his worth at the time. No one could’ve envisaged the drop off over the last two years.

 

[Bloods]

No doubting that. As you say different courage. Kelly's courage and toughness are legendary in AFL Circles. Rodney Eade told me of how during his coaching tenure at the Swans where on several occasions Kelly would come off the ground after running himself to exhaustion would lose control of Bodily functions or the amount of times where sheer exhaustion would see him on a drip for hours after a game. Broke his scapular and tore his ac joint in a game the week before a final and was no chance of playing for the rest of the year and walked into Eades's office on the Tuesday and Told Eade he would be right to Play. Eade laughed at Him. 4 days later Kelly played and touched the ball 40 times. That just is a sample size. Legendary.

The injury might be right but I don’t recall Kel ever playing a great final. Certainly not 40 touches.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Hopefully just 3.

I hate AA as a measuring stick. Total wank of an award in my view but I agree on his worth at the time. No one could’ve envisaged the drop off over the last two years.

C’mon, once AA maybe but 3 times?

 

[scaryness]

AA should be the measuring stick, in theory you have to be in the top 6 of your position any given year. All-NBA and All-Pro in the NFL are my go to awards for referencing who were the dominant players in those sports.

Unfortunately, the selection panel for the All-Australian is far too small and seemingly full of biases to make it as reliable as it should be.

All-NBA and All-Pro are decided by a very large collection of media who report on those sports all the time. Over 100 reporters vote in the American sports, while we leave the All-Australian selection panel to around a dozen guys.

 

[Bloods]

C’mon, once AA maybe but 3 times?

Check the selection panel. Hanners was a complete and utter gun but I’m not using an award selected by Gil, KB, Spud, Darcy and co. as a measuring stick.

 

[Tuco]

Tanking

It's time!

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Check the selection panel. Hanners was a complete and utter gun but I’m not using an award selected by Gil, KB, Spud, Darcy and co. as a measuring stick.

Hmmm...Ok then, I’m not going to give your opinion any credence then! Sound familiar?

Edit: who are you trying to fool? The fact is he is a 3xAA, should’ve been Norm Smith Medallist, Premiership Player!

 

[Tuco]

So what do we have left to trade

Dignity?

 

[Bloods]

Hmmm...Ok then, I’m not going to give your opinion any credence then! Sound familiar?

That’s fine. You weren’t going to anyway.

 

[anotherletdown]

Dignity?

I think we might need to do a stock count, I think that fell off the back of the truck recently

 

[sataris]

Dignity?

 

[Kirkswan]

I wish the coaches would rest him more often. He's often playing with injuries, as are most players, to help extend his career.

I think that it's most likely actually the opposite until very near the end. He needs to train and play all the time, except for perhaps his last season, because once he starts to slow down, he's likely to fall off a cliff and not see out the season.

 

[Kirkswan]

Everyone, Download firefox (Google Chrome have blocked good extensions). Install anti-paywall ( https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/anti-paywall/ ) You can read any article from anywhere it bypasses all paywalls.

Brilliant! Thanks

Does it do Ad Block?

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Dignity went out the back door, shortly after any semblance of common sense galloped into the distance when we allowed Kurt Moneyball enough games to trigger a contract extension.

We should have traded him after the 2016 GF. I hope the urban legend of Reg taking exception to Moneyball after that debacle is true. Would make me feel better about the penalty we are still paying under the TPP.

Had the hard decision been taken then, we may not have had Owen last year. We compounded the decision by gifting games this and last year to underperformerms on big contracts like Rohan and Hanners

Selecting underperforming players based on the size of their contract, history or perceived potential handicaps team prospects. It also sends a poor signal to other members of the team and corrodes morale.

I am pleased the Club is turning the ship around. The trades of Hanners and Rohan are a positive signal.

It denotes a willingness to cut losses. It also signifies a willingness to be fair to other players on the list about the imperative of current performance.

The trick going forward is to better structure contracts going forward. Obviously this is hard in the current rapacious environment where player retention is under extreme pressure. The non Vic clubs, particularly in NSW and Qbillyland, are vulnerable.

I think we should try and reserve 5% of our TPP each year for rewarding performance, eg position in b&f, selection in AA etc. All individual contracts should include performance criteria beyond games played. This would prevent absurd Moneyball situations or auto extensions of contracts such as that which triggered Nick Smith's this year.

I would build more incentives and penalties into the longer and more expensive contracts. If a player on more than median dollars fails to perform, their pay is reduced for the next season.

Most players are competitive beasts and would back themselves to perform. I expect most would agree to a bonus-penalty system. If they object we don't want them.

We have *****d ourselves with long contracts with a minority of players. In 2017 and 2018 of the alleged high earners, we paid overs for Hanners, Jack, Moneyball and Rohan. Buddy, JPK and Parker more than earned their keep.

Anyway these are some random thoughts from someone who has advised on structuring pay (among my other crimes).

 

[Opts]

So montagna believing beams will end up at pies nxt wk. Scully and wingard to nominate hawfs. This is Terminator 4..rise of the Vics!

Id go as far to say that the system is broken and this years trade period is evidence of that.

The Vic clubs make up 55% of the clubs yet 70% (est.) of the players originate from Vic. which is a massive advantage. The S.A. and W.A. clubs aren't as severely affected because there are sufficient players who originate from those states. It's the N.S.W. and Qld. clubs who are left with the scraps unless they pay a player a premium which is what we have had to do.

Fortunately, our culture and development programs help us retain some players but the fact remains that if we had the culture and development programs of a St.Kilda or a North we would be looking more like GCS.

The Vic clubs would argue that we have the academies to offset this, but they have academies too. In fact, I would argue that their academies will be producing more talent than ours because they get to pick the eyes out of the best multicultural youth who come from the bountiful and numerous junior clubs.

 

[connolly]

I hope Harley pulls something awesome off and shuts my mouth because I’m loosing confidence in that guy

Usain Bolt from Central Coast Mariners?

 

[Edmund hunt]

Yes

Paper work can't be lodged.

 

[Banyo Bloods]

Dignity went out the back door, shortly after any semblance of common sense galloped into the distance when we allowed Kurt Moneyball enough games to trigger a contract extension.

We should have traded him after the 2016 GF. I hope the urban legend of Reg taking exception to Moneyball after that debacle is true. Would make me feel better about the penalty we are still paying under the TPP.

Had the hard decision been taken then, we may not have had Owen last year. We compounded the decision by gifting games this and last year to underperformerms on big contracts like Rohan and Hanners

Selecting underperforming players based on the size of their contract, history or perceived potential handicaps team prospects. It also sends a poor signal to other members of the team and corrodes morale.

I am pleased the Club is turning the ship around. The trades of Hanners and Rohan are a positive signal.

It denotes a willingness to cut losses. It also signifies a willingness to be fair to other players on the list about the imperative of current performance.

The trick going forward is to better structure contracts going forward. Obviously this is hard in the current rapacious environment where player retention is under extreme pressure. The non Vic clubs, particularly in NSW and Qbillyland, are vulnerable.

I think we should try and reserve 5% of our TPP each year for rewarding performance, eg position in b&f, selection in AA etc. All individual contracts should include performance criteria beyond games played. This would prevent absurd Moneyball situations or auto extensions of contracts such as that which triggered Nick Smith's this year.

I would build more incentives and penalties into the longer and more expensive contracts. If a player on more than median dollars fails to perform, their pay is reduced for the next season.

Most players are competitive beasts and would back themselves to perform. I expect most would agree to a bonus-penalty system. If they object we don't want them.

We have *****d ourselves with long contracts with a minority of players. In 2017 and 2018 of the alleged high earners, we paid overs for Hanners, Jack, Moneyball and Rohan. Buddy, JPK and Parker more than earned their keep.

Anyway these are some random thoughts from someone who has advised on structuring pay (among my other crimes).

So to sum up you are saying we should make it even less attractive to move to Sydney and play for our club and shorter contracts to give quicker access to Victorian clubs to extract any player not buying into penalty systems.