Expansion Is the AFL good for footy?

[NoobPie]

Clubs would never go for a divisonal system that includes pro-rel. Theres commercial considerations beyond TV that contribute just as much to the coffers of clubs if not more, and you'd be asking half a dozen clubs to give up fixtures against top clubs that they can sell to members and supporters - even if they are rubbish against them.

The above system isn't really pro-rel though (hence the use of the term "pseudo"). Any team can still win the premiership at the start of the year (in theory) from either division.

The "giving up fixtures" is a factor, admittedly. You would lose guaranteed derbies, anzac days and queens birthdays for instance. It is unlikely to happen on that basis alone. More broadly it probably takes too much imagination (if not for the AFL and clubs, for the notoriously reactionary supporter base they'd need to sell it to) to see the merits and opportunities relative to the perceived costs and risks. The AFL haven't even been able to get 17-5 up, and this goes much further

If you did it with the current 18 teams (with two divisions of 9 and 9) you would be able to preserve those fixtures somewhat....that is, each team would play the teams in their own division home and away and have two games against the other division. If, say, the Power and the Crows ended up in opposite divisions they could play eachother twice anyway (which would be imbalanced) or play each-other once and the second game would be against a team that qualified in the counter-balancing position (i.e. 1st -10th, 2nd - 9th etc)

 

[NoobPie]

Even if it's not a true 2nd division, being labelled as being in the so-called 2nd division would impact all forms of revenue, guaranteed.

Possibly, but not necessarily. In the first phase you would still have all the same outcomes available to you that the first division has - i.e. you could qualify for any of the groups in the second phase. You would be playing teams you are more likely to beat every week and it would be arguably

The overall pie, however, would almost certainly grow by the fact you have 5 (or 4 in the 18 team "model") matches between the top 10 (or 9) sides every round in the first 18 weeks, followed by 3 top 6 matches in the next 5 weeks. Not to mention the impact of having largely removed games which had no bearing.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Clubs would never go for a divisonal system that includes pro-rel. Theres commercial considerations beyond TV that contribute just as much to the coffers of clubs if not more, and youd be asking half a dozen clubs to give up fixtures against top clubs that they can sell to members and supporters - even if they are rubbish against them.

Anything that can prolong the interest in the season for as many clubs as possible, for as long as possible, is obviously very desirable. It would generate greater media & fan interest -& thus, in theory, greater crowds & Ratings for a much longer part of the season.

I believe an AFL with the 18 current (permanent) Clubs would benefit from the type of (closed) system NoobPie is promoting.
What is the benefit of having AFL Clubs which, due to some being generally uncompetitive, are essentially playing MOSTLY meaningless games in the last 6 weeks, or so? NoobPie's system would have more evenly balanced games in the last part of the season. The "battling/hopeless" teams (no hope of playing in the traditional Final 8) would be reinvigorated.

I accept it is possible such a new system could, when implemented, be found to be counterproductive. The only way to determine if it could offer net benefits for the AFL would be to trial it for 3 years -then reassess it. The LONGTERM "upside" is potentially HUGE, so the AFL should take the risk. If it fails, not a great detriment has been caused- revert to the current traditional, simple Final 8.
My strong preference is that the draw always fixtures both WA & SA sides to always play each other twice pa; ditto, both NSW & Qld. sides. Irrespective of their form, the derbies are iconic, & too important as marquee games in their states.

I don't think any Melb., WA, or SA AFL sides should have their own Reserves -but AFL players not selected in the 1's would play for their affiliated 2nd tier team.

We should strengthen the State 2nd tier, with these teams (& all players) striving only to win their State premiership -NOT trial runs for AFL sides.

Restore, in Melb., middle/outer suburban teams to join Pt Melb., Williamstown etc. as the second tier -& call it the VFA. These Melb. teams would play most of their games on Sat. & Sunday, starting at between 11-11.30; & 1 game every Mon. evening -to allow them some clear media air for their telecasts, & assist in promoting their separate identities. (No AFL Melb. games on Sat. or Sunday to start before 3pm).

To hasten the introduction of adding 2 extra teams (after 2028, if GWS is getting sell-out crowds regularly?) & not spread the available talent too thinly, we should revert to 2 on the bench.

 

[deltablues]

In fact, our very own Wookie wrote this excellent article for the roar six years ago:
https://www.theroar.com.au/2012/10/30/the-afl-and-restraint-of-trade/
in his learned opinion, he concludes that the AFL could withstand a legal challenge.

Is he a lawyer?

 

[The_Wookie]

Is he a lawyer?

No. The article i wrote was basically a summation of the case information and opinions found elsewhere.

 

[Gigantor]

Is he a lawyer?

at heart, we're all bush lawyers at a minimum

 

[deltablues]

No. The article i wrote was basically a summation of the case information and opinions found elsewhere.

Fair enough. I wasn't sure if you were, bearing in mind the "learned" word is used by lawyers to refer to their 'learned friends' as fellow lawyers [in a slightly ironical way: 'very learned' is an insult ].

 

[The_Wookie]

Fair enough. I wasn't sure if you were, bearing in mind the "learned" word is used by lawyers to refer to their 'learned friends' as fellow lawyers [in a slightly ironical way: 'very learned' is an insult ].

Id never describe myself as "learned".

 

[deltablues]

Id never describe myself as "learned".

Heh. Very droll.

 

[Tonatopia]

Clubs would never go for a divisonal system that includes pro-rel. Theres commercial considerations beyond TV that contribute just as much to the coffers of clubs if not more, and youd be asking half a dozen clubs to give up fixtures against top clubs that they can sell to members and supporters - even if they are rubbish against them.

based on the strength of the current Nth Melb side, would club attendances increase if they were winning games in Div2, compared to getting thumped in Div1?

what would a parent prefer to bring his children to?
what would retain more members?
would Mazda continue its sponsorship?
if salary cap restraints were relaxed, could the club make greater profit during a Div2 rebuild?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

based on the strength of the current Nth Melb side, would club attendances increase if they were winning games in Div2, compared to getting thumped in Div1?

what would a parent prefer to bring his children to?
what would retain more members?
would Mazda continue its sponsorship?
if salary cap restraints were relaxed, could the club make greater profit during a Div2 rebuild?

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think it's more appealing for North Melbourne stakeholders to play the Broken Hill BHP Bandits as favourite than in front of 35k proven supporters an a historical rivalry v Essendon as demonstrated earlier this year.

 

[Tonatopia]

That Mildura example is a good one.

Similarly, one of the very best leagues outside of the VFL/SANFL/WAFL is the Ovens and Murray League, straddling two states. The bigger towns contribute at least two teams. Are these clubs more interested in advancing to some imaginary, non-existent league, or are they striving to beat their century-old rivals and be the top dog in a very good competition.

They can have both
1. Continue their century long rivalries, and
2. as a united city/region, take on the nation in the 'big league'.

 

[Tonatopia]

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think it's more appealing for North Melbourne stakeholders to play the Broken Hill BHP Bandits as favourite than in front of 35k proven supporters an a historical rivalry v Essendon as demonstrated earlier this year.

Please mate, I never said Broken Hill.
Try NMFC v Ballarat.