Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?

[TallyHawk]

On the flipside, those they’re bringing in - Wingard, Scrimshaw, Mitchell, OMaera (other than possibly Scully) are far from cooked.

Yet they are expensive in terms of draft picks and Burton.

It’s a really interesting approach and equation.

It's a massive rebuild of our midfield in 3 years if you add Worpel and Impey to that mix.

Compare it with StKilda who have had a strategy on getting as many picks in the top 25 of multiple drafts, they have gone for best available, not needs, and subsequently have quite a few b/c class players and very few match winners.

Targeting specific proven players is a sound decision.


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[TallyHawk]

ah yes.. it is not about what you get but what you can do with what you get.. or what you want and where you can place them.. you
gather my mind with all the draft picks that seem silly at the time but if you can feel confident with them and with what you can do 'with'
them it is all good.. record repeating and clarko is being driven nuts at this point given that he already knows what he is up for..

smart dude he is ahead of you even when you don't even see it..

Can someone translate?


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[TallyHawk]

Because BF logic is a wondrous thing.

It's because we are desperate topping up with 20, 23,24, and 25 year old players.


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[Trav 20]

You say a long climb from crap to 4th over five years is the signs of a good team, but 3rd. 12th. 4th is somehow bad?

Other than that it’s just our opinions

I didn't say it was "the signs of a good team". I said I'm happy with the trajectory. I'm happy with the linear progression.

As far as your mob goes ? Poor key defenders, poor key forwards, and average rucks. You're bottom 6 in the competition for all three.

You also don't have a top six midfield.

No other teams are quaking in their boots.

 

[Leeda]

Can someone translate?


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Um no.. it is to your own delectation that you work it out...

 

[Leeda]

It's because we are desperate topping up with 20, 23,24, and 25 year old players.


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topping up means that we aren't pleased with what we have.. I would dispute that.. we can handle what we have got for at
least two years.. we don't always have to chop and change.. clarko knows this but he wants to retain the idea of adding
players every year.. it gets tiring to have to play the game of adding a player or delisting one..

he is sorry to see some go and he is sorry to have to take time to get to know someone else.

 

[Slysh]

I didn't say it was "the signs of a good team". I said I'm happy with the trajectory. I'm happy with the linear progression.

As far as your mob goes ? Poor key defenders, poor key forwards, and average rucks. You're bottom 6 in the competition for all three.

You also don't have a top six midfield.

No other teams are quaking in their boots.

We are in the bottom 6 in the competition for Rucks???????

Big Boy would probably only be behind Gawn and Grundy in terms of ruckmen over the past 2 years. Ceglar is a decent 2nd ruck/ back up option as well... No way is our ruck stocks in the bottom 6 in the comp.

 

[HairyO]

I didn't say it was "the signs of a good team". I said I'm happy with the trajectory. I'm happy with the linear progression.

As far as your mob goes ? Poor key defenders, poor key forwards, and average rucks. You're bottom 6 in the competition for all three.

You also don't have a top six midfield.

No other teams are quaking in their boots.

Yet somehow we were one of thr higher scoring teams with one of the better scores against results.

Magic pixie dust I assume.

 

[Pessimistic]

I didn't say it was "the signs of a good team". I said I'm happy with the trajectory. I'm happy with the linear progression.

As far as your mob goes ? Poor key defenders, poor key forwards, and average rucks. You're bottom 6 in the competition for all three.

You also don't have a top six midfield.

No other teams are quaking in their boots.

Apart from the fact hawks have been top six for most of the decade. But I guess that’s an achievement only a minor it can be happy with

 

[Luv_our_club]

Sydney?

yeah, but this year will be their 3rd top 5 draft pick in 5 years. They keep getting access to elite young talent, which makes them unique in the league.

They were unlucky in 2016, and in 2014 they choked, which could be evidence for topping up being a viable strategy.

West Coast could be viewed as a top up team?

 

[JLC]

Yes.

The ease of player movement will enable that strategy to work.

They recruit top end talent but not through the draft. Most of the mature age players they recruit are former high picks. Even the ones that don’t work Vickery and O’rourke were high picks.

Sydney under Roos did not go to the draft that often?

 

[Gavin Excell]

yeah, but this year will be their 3rd top 5 draft pick in 5 years. They keep getting access to elite young talent, which makes them unique in the league.

They were unlucky in 2016, and in 2014 they choked, which could be evidence for topping up being a viable strategy.

West Coast could be viewed as a top up team?

Eagles?
Not in same way as Geelong and Hawks I wouldn't have thought

 

[Trav 20]

We are in the bottom 6 in the competition for Rucks???????

Big Boy would probably only be behind Gawn and Grundy in terms of ruckmen over the past 2 years. Ceglar is a decent 2nd ruck/ back up option as well... No way is our ruck stocks in the bottom 6 in the comp.

Yes, you're right. The rucks are in good shape.

 

[Trav 20]

Yet somehow we were one of thr higher scoring teams with one of the better scores against results.

Magic pixie dust I assume.

A wonderfully coached group.

In my time watching footy I've never seen such an ordinary top 4 and top 8. There's nearly always been 2 or 3 standout teams, but not so these past few years. How often does a top 4 team lose to a bottom 4 team twice in the season proper ? When did it last happen ?

One has to admire Hawthorn, but they're hanging about in a very ordinary era.

 

[Scotland]

Eagles?
Not in same way as Geelong and Hawks I wouldn't have thought

6 of our flag 22 were imported. Cripps, Jetta, Kennedy, Redden, Vardy, Yeo.

Redden is the only real 'top up' player in that. Recruited for a late first round pick as a 25 year old to bolster the midfield. The rest were mostly young, Vardy was yet another back up ruck recruit and Jetta for Sinclair seems to sway between win/win and lose/lose depending on the year.

 

[HairyO]

A wonderfully coached group.

In my time watching footy I've never seen such an ordinary top 4 and top 8. There's nearly always been 2 or 3 standout teams, but not so these past few years. How often does a top 4 team lose to a bottom 4 team twice in the season proper ? When did it last happen ?

One has to admire Hawthorn, but they're hanging about in a very ordinary era.

In my time on BF Ive seen relentless droning on and on about how poor a team Hawthorn is with every excuse under the sun provided to explain their success and every reason given as to why its all about to end.

Yet here we are again.

At least youre not just talking Hawthorn. Youre talking all 18 teams.

 

[Scotland]

No premiership this decade was as good as 2018. Strongest season in recent memory and whoever won that must be awesome.

 

[Scotland]

It's interesting that this year there wasn't a whole lot between 1st and 12th and then it fell away after that. Port looked odds on for a top 4 spot then fell out of the 8, Geelong were out of the 8 with two weeks to go, Melbourne were no hope, then top 4 certs, then top 8 chances.. etc.

Contrast that with 2011 or 2013 or 2009 and you have a couple of great teams and no one else is anywhere near it. Is it more valuable if you have 1 or 2 strong opponents and a bunch of weak ones?

 

[Trav 20]

In my time on BF Ive seen relentless droning on and on about how poor a team Hawthorn is with every excuse under the sun provided to explain their success and every reason given as to why its all about to end.

Yet here we are again.

At least youre not just talking Hawthorn. Youre talking all 18 teams.

What do you mean "here we are again" ? I'm taking now, not your premiership era.

You guys must think you're still living in the halcyon days.

It would be like me hanging on to the 50s and '64 in 1968.

It's over.

So when people reference Hawthorn they're referencing the Hawthorn of 2019, not the era that's finished.

I'm beginning to see the problem with you guys.

 

[Pessimistic]

A wonderfully coached group.

In my time watching footy I've never seen such an ordinary top 4 and top 8. There's nearly always been 2 or 3 standout teams, but not so these past few years. How often does a top 4 team lose to a bottom 4 team twice in the season proper ? When did it last happen ?

One has to admire Hawthorn, but they're hanging about in a very ordinary era.

A top coach and a very ordinary era. Very much agree.
Which is why the strategy the hawks are taking to list management is just fine, thank you
Thanks for endorsing that

 

[HairyO]

What do you mean "here we are again" ? I'm taking now, not your premiership era.

You guys must think you're still living in the halcyon days.

It would be like me hanging on to the 50s and '64 in 1968.

It's over.

So when people reference Hawthorn they're referencing the Hawthorn of 2019, not the era that's finished.

I'm beginning to see the problem with you guys.

Halcyon days.
Era.

AKA 3 years ago...

 

[Pessimistic]

In fact I’d go one further and say the approach Melbourne and Carlton have taken, five year plan on top of five year rapid rebuild might be hurting our sport as a whole.

They’ve repeatedly taken the best talent and literally wasted it. In wider terms it would be like the government forcing the best and brightest school leavers to go to the worst universities and tafes

Who knows how much better footy would be without the ‘contribution’ of these clubs over a decade or so

 

[Pessimistic]

What do you mean "here we are again" ? I'm taking now, not your premiership era.

You guys must think you're still living in the halcyon days.

It would be like me hanging on to the 50s and '64 in 1968.

It's over.

So when people reference Hawthorn they're referencing the Hawthorn of 2019, not the era that's finished.

I'm beginning to see the problem with you guys.

His point is there were many people like you posting exactly as you are in 09-11 about Hawthorn. Next minute. 3 flags.
So don’t be surprised or even feel superior to us until your scenario actually plays out

 

[Trav 20]

A top coach and a very ordinary era. Very much agree.
Which is why the strategy the hawks are taking to list management is just fine, thank you
Thanks for endorsing that

I can absolutely see the merit.

I just don't think it will work. Especially when I see the holes in your best 22.

 

[Trav 20]

In fact I’d go one further and say the approach Melbourne and Carlton have taken, five year plan on top of five year rapid rebuild might be hurting our sport as a whole.

They’ve repeatedly taken the best talent and literally wasted it. In wider terms it would be like the government forcing the best and brightest school leavers to go to the worst universities and tafes

Who knows how much better footy would be without the ‘contribution’ of these clubs over a decade or so

Did we ruin careers, or draft choir boys ? Blease, Morton, Strauss, Watts, Gysberts, Cook, Maric ....

There's no doubt we were hopeless at drafting and developing, so there's your double whammy.

There will always be s**t clubs in an 18 team competition.