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Can Hawthorn succeed while ignoring the elite end of the draft?
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- #553
Ty was chopped before he retired
Lovell pick 22 1st round pick
Jok
So to brag you have 1st round picks come in is a bit much when 4 came off the list if you count rioli..
2 kick nash will lead hawks to the next flag but haha
Gralin
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Ty was a FA, cost us nothing in picks
Neither O'Rourke or Lovell were pick 16 or earlier from us.
Burton wasn't either
Rioli was, ten years ago
so your pick 16 comment was let's just say inaccurate
We played all year without Vickery, most of the year without Rioli. I'm going to miss Sizzle but those two while losses from the list aren't losses from the team we ran out most weeks.
Lovell didn't play senior footy this year, Jono got a few games but in the end his body wasn't up to it.
The biggest impact will be Burton as he played most games, Wingard should easily have more impact next year.
Lovell is proof we cant handle raw first round picks
I would say no.
The 3peat team had its fair share of talent from the elite end.
Hodge, Lewis, Roughead, Buddy, Rioli, Birchall, Smith - all critical to their success, all of them 1st rd picks.
McEvoy, Lake, Gunston, Burgoyne, Hale - all cost 1st rd picks
Frawley was considered the equivalent of one as a FA
And now, Mitchell cost them a 1st in the biggest trade steal of all time. Jaeger cost them a 1st and a raft of other picks.
And Wingard has cost them 2.
I'd argue you take Buddy and Lewis out of the threepeat side, and they don't win that many premierships.
So it was a draft where they had 3x top 10 picks and nailed each one, on top of a number of other round 1 successes and drafting of high end talent in whilst a destination club that led to their success.
Will they compete. Of course
Are they premiership fancies any time soon? no.
Feels like they've gone the Swans/Cats route of trying to rebuild whilst still making finals.
Yet to see a team succeed in that approach.
The 3peat team had its fair share of talent from the elite end.
Hodge, Lewis, Roughead, Buddy, Rioli, Birchall, Smith - all critical to their success, all of them 1st rd picks.
McEvoy, Lake, Gunston, Burgoyne, Hale - all cost 1st rd picks
Frawley was considered the equivalent of one as a FA
And now, Mitchell cost them a 1st in the biggest trade steal of all time. Jaeger cost them a 1st and a raft of other picks.
And Wingard has cost them 2.
I'd argue you take Buddy and Lewis out of the threepeat side, and they don't win that many premierships.
So it was a draft where they had 3x top 10 picks and nailed each one, on top of a number of other round 1 successes and drafting of high end talent in whilst a destination club that led to their success.
Will they compete. Of course
Are they premiership fancies any time soon? no.
Feels like they've gone the Swans/Cats route of trying to rebuild whilst still making finals.
Yet to see a team succeed in that approach.
Furn2
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People act like we are passing on 1st round draft picks. We are trading them for proven players with plenty of footy left.
If we had traded those picks that got Buddy and Lewis in 2004 for say Nick Riewoldt and Jimmy Bartel we would have been just as good. Then if we did the same in 05/06 with the picks we used on Dowler, Eliis and Thorp and traded for proven players we'd have been much better off.
If we had traded those picks that got Buddy and Lewis in 2004 for say Nick Riewoldt and Jimmy Bartel we would have been just as good. Then if we did the same in 05/06 with the picks we used on Dowler, Eliis and Thorp and traded for proven players we'd have been much better off.
Take Buddy out of the threepeat side? How'd he go in 2014 GF?
We would have traded for him with 2 x 1st round picks.
huh? why are you lumping in Swans with Hawks? Going a very different route. ...
Swans have genuinely been re-generating and why they had relatively young teams in last two seasons.
Heeney, Mills, Florent, Will Hayward, Tom Papley, Ben Ronke and Tom McCartin all come via drafting and Aliir been a good project type too. I've not seen Swans trading away their ability to draft youth at all. Even last time they won flag they did not trade out of first round to top up. Got Jake Lloyd and following season Zak Jones. They are probably the most balanced club in terms of list management for last couple of decades. They simply do it right and re-generate all the time. They barely missed finals in last two decades since mid 90's.
Their best two players were traded in from the Hawks. Unless they get some *academy* gold quick I can see them diving far faster than the hawks or cats once Kennedy and Buddy retire
I wouldn't mind taking up a bet along those lines.....
Jake Lloyd – 540 votes
Luke Parker – 517 votes
Lance Franklin – 510 votes
Isaac Heeney – 463 votes
Josh Kennedy – 435 votes
Dane Rampe – 433 votes
George Hewett – 430 votes
Jarrad McVeigh – 353 votes
Callum Sinclair – 351 votes
Harry Cunningham – 331 votes
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You missed the point of my post.
I was responding to someone's lack of thought, saying Swans and Hawks on same route in recent years. They not, very different.
Yep, have the academy rort
Did with Heeney and will be with Blakey too. They do it well more often that not.
Marc_Remillard
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Luv_our_club
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What high end talent did we trade in to contribute to the 3peat as a destination club?
No one wanted Lake, Hale.
Gibson was middling at North Melbourne.
St Kilda approached us about McEvoy... we didn't approach him. He went for 2nd rounders.
Frawley... probably chose us because of our success. I never viewed him as high end however.
Burgoyne... he was high end talent but injured, we had missed the finals and people thought we were making a mistake.
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Marc_Remillard
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Vickery leaving has improved the Hawthorn list
Marc_Remillard
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I agree, anyone who argues anything different is either trolling or has nfi
He was a FA wasn't he?
Gralin
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- #571
yeah he was an RFA
So he was on the books for 2 years whether he played every game or walked away 5 minutes after signing the contract.
Was a big miss by the club but not like we had much in the way of picks to trade for anyone better, I can understand why they picked him up but they got that one wrong
Still only cost us salary cap, we didn't waste any players or picks trading for him so the damage wasn't massive
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- #572
You haven't seen O'Brien play then
Marc_Remillard
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Every club has misses
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The new inclusions are better than those players who have gone out d*******
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Is O’Brien in the Hawks best 22? No.
Hawthorn should adopt the Carlton approach. Recruit 2 or 3 Western Sydney players every off-season and still finish last.
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