List Mgmt. 2018 Draft, Free Agency & Trade Hypotheticals thread, Part II: Nothing happened!

[TheMase]

Mick, I was thinking he was referring to the draft. Even then I am not sure you can roll future picks into this year's draft.

My understanding is you can trade future picks in the draft.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Mick, I was thinking he was referring to the draft. Even then I am not sure you can roll future picks into this year's draft.

I followed it back and it was about Jesse Lonergan. If it’s about the draft, something has been lost in translation (unless there’s a blocked member in there).

 

[Superstar swan]

Would be stoked if we got townsend and menzel

 

[MarkP]

I fully expect ollie to come on in leaps and bounds next season. Watch how he shapes up pre season

Bet ya he trains the house down

 

[6yearsold]

My understanding is you can trade future picks in the draft.

so we can trade the future second for pick 25, for example?

 

[MarkP]

so we can trade the future second for pick 25, for example?

Yes - but there are restrictions and limitations.

 

[Wolftone]

If he is a key position forward then we can never have enough of those.

Really? We have enough of them. Blakey, Bud, Reid, McCartin, Amarty. They are not a huge NEED. You don't use your number one pick to stockpile key forwards. You use it to pick players who will fill your greatest needs. Top quality FB, Strong, big, inside mid. These are desperate needs. We have bolstered our key forward stocks at last years draft and get Blakey. But now the fact is this guy is saying we will pick another forward, not a key by the way, as our second pick. Astounding. How many small, medium forwards have we got? Papley, Ronke, Hayward, Rose, Bell, probably Rookie Wicks.

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[Wolftone]

I think I just threw up my dinner! Rose in the midfield lol

I don't know why. He plays there and plays well in the NEAFL. His ability to break out of the centre square was pivotal in several matches last season. He could be good in there if he could stop being pushed off the ball at AFL level.

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[Wolftone]

I’d rather play Dawson in there thank you. Plus as if Horse will think outside the square anyway

Dawson will play in there

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[Cadsky]

Mark Baguley anyone? Still not signed at the bombers. Always played well against us.

 

[RobbieK]

so we can trade the future second for pick 25, for example?

This was raised over the in the Draft forum.

Imagine this scenario:

1. A bid comes in for Blakey, let's say it is pick 8 (1551 points).
2. We match that using Picks 26 and 33, our first two picks in the draft (1292 points, when you add in the 20% discount for matching this covers the bid).
3. After we match the bid we then do a pick swap with another club, trading the future second round pick that we got from St Kilda as part of the Hannebery trade to another club for a second round pick this season. Assuming St Kilda are going to be in the bottom few teams again, that's worth a pick in the low 20s. One potential trading partner could be Gold Coast. They currently have three first round picks and two second round pick in this year's draft, but have traded out their second round pick next season, so it could make sense for them to trade out one of the second round picks from this season for one in 2019. So, let's say this trade ends up being 2018 Pick 24 for 2019 Second Round Pick (St Kilda).

So, we not only manage to get Blakey by matching a top 10 pick with two second round picks, but we then manage to trade back in to the second round of this year's draft, obtaining a pick that is higher than any of the picks that we entered the draft, a pick we would have been forced to use to match the bid if we had held it before the bid came in.

Part of me thinks this shouldn't really be possible. But I can't see any rules against it.

 

[Wolftone]

At least Dawson has shown some qualities at AFL level despite Horse thinking otherwise and dropping him for the final...

I’d rather first and foremost back the mids in but add Mills to the mix- don’t want Mills playing back again.

Yeah Dawson should have played and Hannas been dropped. There was no reason to play a player who's performances were dreadful to ordinary and who could not hit the side of a barn if he were two metres away

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[TheMase]

This was raised over the in the Draft forum.

Imagine this scenario:

1. A bid comes in for Blakey, let's say it is pick 8 (1551 points).
2. We match that using Picks 26 and 33, our first two picks in the draft (1292 points, when you add in the 20% discount for matching this covers the bid).
3. After we match the bid we then do a pick swap with another club, trading the future second round pick that we got from St Kilda as part of the Hannebery trade to another club for a second round pick this season. Assuming St Kilda are going to be in the bottom few teams again, that's worth a pick in the low 20s. One potential trading partner could be Gold Coast. They currently have three first round picks and two second round pick in this year's draft, but have traded out their second round pick next season, so it could make sense for them to trade out one of the second round picks from this season for one in 2019. So, let's say this trade ends up being 2018 Pick 24 for 2019 Second Round Pick (St Kilda).

So, we not only manage to get Blakey by matching a top 10 pick with two second round picks, but we then manage to trade back in to the second round of this year's draft, obtaining a pick that is higher than any of the picks that we entered the draft, a pick we would have been forced to use to match the bid if we had held it before the bid came in.

Part of me thinks this shouldn't really be possible. But I can't see any rules against it.

This.

Any trade for us to gain an advantage would need to be done after the Blakey trade.

 

[Cadsky]

Yeah Dawson should have played and Hannas been dropped. There was no reason to play a player who's performances were dreadful to ordinary and who could not hit the side of a barn if he were two metres away

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They were hoping he'd have a blinder and drive his trade value up. It didn't happen

 

[Wolftone]

Who goes out? Not to mention mills and melican going straight in. Need 3 out of our backline for thurlow to even be considered

See there you go again. Harley has stated that we are looking for alternatives to Mills and Jones in the backline. Mills is moving into the midfield group as was the plan to begin with. So stop thinking of him as a back man because that ain't gonna happen. Thurlow may be the guy that gets the GB role because he can play on talls and smalls, is quick and a good deliverer of the ball. The kid has ability or he would not have been drafted at 16. He has shown glympses but injury killed him at Cats and he could not regain his early form.



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[RobbieK]

This.

Any trade for us to gain an advantage would need to be done after the Blakey trade.

I imagine it is also the kind of thing we would only be able to do once before the league closed this loophole.

 

[TheMase]

I imagine it is also the kind of thing we would only be able to do once before the league closed this loophole.

I am not sure they will close it. They have to ratify each trade so reasonable fair value for pick trades will need to be done for them to determine that.

They could do something to not allow pick trades after multiple picks have been used for a academy or father son bid though, so you could be right.

 

[Wolftone]

Just a shame they spend 10 million over 9 years for one player then to perform a rebuild.

I actually think you are right. But the rebuild was forced after we did not win premiership in 2014 & 16. Our list aged. Some players left for retirement deals, Mal, others simply retired. Our list was aging or needed cleaning out. We were forbidden from trading and had salary cap problems due to the Buddy deal. We had no choice but to draft kids and that is working for us. It's called rebuilding on the run.

We have done this better than any other side because we are yet to fall out of the eight. What we have done is regenerate the list. There are only 8 players who will be over 26 as of 1 October 2019. Of those only Buddy, Joey, Ramps, Sinkas and possibly Smithy will be there in 2020. Three others will join them in the over 26 bracket, Parker, Naismith and Reid in 2020.

So yes we are regenerating. We did so because we had no choice

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[The King!]

I actually think you are right. But the rebuild was forced after we did not win premiership in 2014 & 16. Our list aged. Some players left for retirement deals, Mal, others simply retired. Our list was aging or needed cleaning out. We were forbidden from trading and had salary cap problems due to the Buddy deal. We had no choice but to draft kids and that is working for us. It's called rebuilding on the run.

We have done this better than any other side because we are yet to fall out of the eight. What we have done is regenerate the list. There are only 8 players who will be over 26 as of 1 October 2019. Of those only Buddy, Joey, Ramps, Sinkas and possibly Smithy will be there in 2020. Three others will join them in the over 26 bracket, Parker, Naismith and Reid in 2020.

So yes we are regenerating. We did so because we had no choice

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Agree, and yep still a shame that was forced upon us really.

I am happy with the kids, history does suggest that if you took all our promising kids say 24 and under that as good as many look they all wont necessarily make it at sydney (or AFL full stop)

Will be interesting to see what the future holds and who become 150 game plus swans players

 

[RobbieK]

I am not sure they will close it. They have to ratify each trade so reasonable fair value for pick trades will need to be done for them to determine that.

They could do something to not allow pick trades after multiple picks have been used for a academy or father son bid though, so you could be right.

It really does undermine the principle of needing to bid with you next draft pick to match a bid if you can make a bid and then make a trade that allows you to obtain a higher pick than the one you used to bid.

Maybe in hindsight it would have been better for us to trade Pick 13 for a future first round pick. We could then either use that pick or our own future first round pick to trade back in to the first round of this draft once we had bid on Blakey and still kept a presence in the first round next season...

 

[Wolftone]

'
It has been a success, I just dont think the club sees itself in some long term rebuild

No indeed. The regeneration was forced upon us and it is almost complete. The majority of this list will take us into the next ten years

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[Wolftone]

Im surprised to see Will Langford de listed.

I'm not, he was crap. Can't kick and makes s**t decisions.

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[Wolftone]

Played well in the 16 grand final.


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You are being funny aren't you? He did play well in the 14, kicked three goals.

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[LukeParkerno1]

I don't know why. He plays there and plays well in the NEAFL. His ability to break out of the centre square was pivotal in several matches last season. He could be good in there if he could stop being pushed off the ball at AFL level.

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A lot of players look good at NEAFL level though.

 

[Wolftone]

He's got potential, but so far he's had about 3 good games two of them this year from memory. It's not that I'm anti Florent, but he got a dozen games in 2017 getting the ball about 5-7 times and had quite a few 1-2 possession halves. That puts a lot of pressure on others.
Whether it's him or the coaching not too sure. Surely wasn't up to the physical load Horse put on him again this year by playing him every week. So that's not on him.
This next season he'll either up his input to become a real solid contributer, or fade away not able to match the physical demands again. Hope it's the former.Maybe the fringe ins we are bringing to the club will both allow him rest (and selection pressure) and get better performances when he is in the team...

I think you are being overly harsh. If I remember rightly he had to come in and play the first six or so games of 2017 because of injuries. He was not ready that is for certain, his body was underdeveloped for AFL. But he showed glympses. This year he was at times sensational. Up until mid season he was averaging 25. But toward the end of the year he tapered off.

I think you just don't like him because he has a bit of flair.

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