Coach Fremantle: where to now after Lyon?

[HTPunter]

WC were predicted bottom 4. I understand the sheep mentality in Australian football discussion. Of course there is room to keep these older players, but why on Earth is it a good strategy? Hawks let go of their champions who were better players (Lewis still a straight walk up for any teams best 22) and now they are contending again because they made the hard decisions. That's how it's done, not this middle of the path strategy they seem to be taking.

Freos reserves won back to back flags in 2016 and 2017, and had a fair few spuddy older players in that group. I think if Ballantyne for example plays 6-10 AFL games and the rest at Peel, the development of Freo kids will be much better than none at all. Ballantyne looks fairly done at AFL level but he`d tear up the WAFL still. Sandi is there to take pressure off Darcy and a lesser extent Jones and Meek. I think it's absolutely fine to have 2 or 3 old guys on the list who may minimise the damage done to a side faced with losses.

 

[HTPunter]

Is the thinking Neale wants out because he is sick of Lyon or wants short term success?

Thinking Beams and Martin may have had front ended contracts, as well as a few senior deadwood guys in Bell, Bewick, Paparone (and likely Bastinac) going, and there's tonnes of cap room that they need to fill. Might be enough to entice Neale.

 

[Goomba1973]

It's not that bad outside of the forward the line, stop giving validity to this narrative

Nathan Wilson has been a revelation for them as he is that elite kicking backman that can hit up targets from 60m. They have Fyfe and Neale in the middle that they can build a midfield around. Cerra and Brayshaw are stars in the making. Griffen Logue has a lot of potential. It should not be all doom and gloom.
Where Freo are going wrong IMO is they lack anyone to kick it too. Walters is not a key forward, he is a small forward that should be crumbing and running back into open space and not trying to be the lead up forward. Cam Mcarthy needs to be delisted, he is just not up to AFL standard, Ballantyne needs to go, 2 decent games should not have earned him a contract extension. Sandi needs to go as he is stifling the ruck from developing. Resigning those two during a rebuild was a mistake.

 

[masai]

Nathan Wilson has been a revelation for them as he is that elite kicking backman that can hit up targets from 60m. They have Fyfe and Neale in the middle that they can build a midfield around. Cerra and Brayshaw are stars in the making. Griffen Logue has a lot of potential. It should not be all doom and gloom.
Where Freo are going wrong IMO is they lack anyone to kick it too. Walters is not a key forward, he is a small forward that should be crumbing and running back into open space and not trying to be the lead up forward. Cam Mcarthy needs to be delisted, he is just not up to AFL standard, Ballantyne needs to go, 2 decent games should not have earned him a contract extension. Sandi needs to go as he is stifling the ruck from developing. Resigning those two during a rebuild was a mistake.

If you look deeper, Sandi is there to help Darcy, learn his craft. 2019 will be a hand over year, with Sandi playing probably less than half the games, Darcy piloting on those other days. You need experienced players around to nurture the youngsters. Sandi will retire at the end of the season, hand over complete.

Watch for Hugh Dixon, next season.

 

[BigVic]

2019 will be Sandi’s last season as a Docker

 

[mightymouse75]

2019 will be Sandi’s last season as a Docker

Definitely, he has been very durable for a man giant

 

[db26]

Something doesn't seem right between coach,club and players.I just think a new face and ideas will do dockers good time for a change.

 

[Freomaniac]

Freos reserves won back to back flags in 2016 and 2017, and had a fair few spuddy older players in that group. I think if Ballantyne for example plays 6-10 AFL games and the rest at Peel, the development of Freo kids will be much better than none at all. Ballantyne looks fairly done at AFL level but he`d tear up the WAFL still. Sandi is there to take pressure off Darcy and a lesser extent Jones and Meek. I think it's absolutely fine to have 2 or 3 old guys on the list who may minimise the damage done to a side faced with losses.

Well to be honest I didn't think North would get 10 wins this year after your mob got rid of a lot of experienced players this time last year. knew you would of got 7-8 wins easily

Ballantyne will be a depth player.

Sandilands will get the pav treatment. He will only play 12 games all in WA. The other rucks will be rotated.

I wont be upset if Mundy plays all 22 games next season while the young mids are rotated from the bench. Mundy will be rotated up a forward flank and In the middle.

 

[freo1997]

In terms of Ballas being resigned and posters saying he’ll only play 6-10 games..what hogwash.

There’s a certain Hayden Ballantyne Wing down at Peel’s home ground. Now if you’re a struggling afl player getting dropped..how embarrassing would it be to play at a wafl stadium with a wing named after you with big bold letters.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m fairly sure to this date he hasn’t represented peel at that particular oval...he only gets dropped for 1 week for their away games.

It’s a disgrace he was given a contract and unfortunately he’ll be playing most of 2019.

 

[Freomaniac]

Bitter? Not sure about that, IMO Lyon has managed to perpetrate one of the greatest con jobs of all time. The Media have lauded him for years and the Dockers believed the hype also. It has proven to be all unwarranted of course and it's all come a cropper, which it was always going to do...

for all your bagging about Ross Lyon, your team kicked 3 goals by 3 quarter time, 6 for the whole game in your elim final loss to the demons

 

[Freo]

gonna lose Cerra and Lachie Neale dark dark times for Freo and Rossy

So, Cerra signed on for an extra two years, Neale left, Got Hogan and Lobb. Dark times? LOL

 

[Freomaniac]

So is calling the shots now during free agency and the trade period?

Peter Francis Bell....

Actually I think freo did ok in the trade period

 

[the harry]

Peter Francis Bell....

Actually I think freo did ok in the trade period

Difficult to know what they could have done better. Made the best of a bad situation with the Lions and did well with the FA period. Arguably have the best forward line in the clubs history.

 

[dzussy]

Ross has no excuses now given the top grade key position players they picked up. Absolutely no excuses anymore.
And they keep backing in powder boy with his """"calf"""" problems. Just insane I reckon.
Giving Ballantyne another year after just one half decent game all year, and Sandilands who is past it like the Queen Mary. WTF.

I reckon they can do alright given what they have, no reason they cant make the 8 with the draw they have. If Lyon plays the kids they will find something. Losing Johnson and Pearce was two years too late, but will make them better straight up. Unless Lyon persists with this low scoring, defend to win crap.

 

[masai]

Ross has no excuses now given the top grade key position players they picked up. Absolutely no excuses anymore.
And they keep backing in powder boy with his """"calf"""" problems. Just insane I reckon.
Giving Ballantyne another year after just one half decent game all year, and Sandilands who is past it like the Queen Mary. WTF.

I reckon they can do alright given what they have, no reason they cant make the 8 with the draw they have. If Lyon plays the kids they will find something. Losing Johnson and Pearce was two years too late, but will make them better straight up. Unless Lyon persists with this low scoring, defend to win crap.

I agree with the no excuses line.

Sandi is there to tutor Darcy + 2nd rucks, will play less than 50% of games. Mainly there for Darcy to be put up against a rigorous training opponent. Sandi has the points on the board, his wisdom will be very useful.

Johnson was kept on whilst Pearce ( backman ) was recovering from injury. By the end of last season Pearce, Wilson, Ryan & Hamling had all stepped up, good time for Johnno to exit.

Danyle Pearce, grrrrrr, got a 3 year deal when 1 was enough.

Lyon has shown that he is playing the kids, he has worked that part out.

Freo with 10 wins and improved scoring + reduced blowouts and the team improving as the season goes on, is a reasonable benchmark.

 

[Freomaniac]

Ross has no excuses now given the top grade key position players they picked up. Absolutely no excuses anymore.
And they keep backing in powder boy with his """"calf"""" problems. Just insane I reckon.
Giving Ballantyne another year after just one half decent game all year, and Sandilands who is past it like the Queen Mary. WTF.

I reckon they can do alright given what they have, no reason they cant make the 8 with the draw they have. If Lyon plays the kids they will find something. Losing Johnson and Pearce was two years too late, but will make them better straight up. Unless Lyon persists with this low scoring, defend to win crap.

I just had to read this post..... twice.

Now... lets talk about Ballantyne and Sandilands, well we will get to that later. Actually lets talk about those 2018 picks. I have posted this before and will post this again.

Freo walked into the 2018 Trade period with picks 5, 77 ,95 and 113. So essentially it was a 1st, 5th 6th and 7th rounder.

Now if you wondered why Freo had no 2018 2nd, 3rd and 4th rouder, lets talk about it.

-Freos 2018 2nd rounder was traded for Nathan Wilson from GWS which ended up pick 23. Fair trade for freo.

-Freos 2018 3rd rounder which was pick 41 was traded for Brandon Matera in which I was against. I wanted to get him but I would of rather waited one more season and Freo woud of got him as a free agent on a 3 or 4 year deal and Suns would of got a 2nd round compo pick

-Freos 2018 4th rounder which was pick 59 was traded with Hayden crozier for picks 40 and 82.

I knew once Freo got belted by Geelong in geelong in round 22. Freo will finish below the dogs to get pick 5. I also knew that Freo would trade pick 5 and a future 2nd rounder to try and get a teams 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder like picks 10, 28 and 46. I didn't expect Port to trade picks 11, 23, 29 and 47 for freos pick 5 and our 2019 3rd rounder.

West Coast did a similar trade in 2013. They traded pick 6 and 42, their 1st and 3rd rounder for Collingwoods picks of 11,29 and 49, a 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Now by the end of the trade period, Freo got Hogan, Lobb, Colyer and Conca through trades or Free Agency. They only traded out Neale and lost a 2019 3rd and 4th rounder. Which I don't mind. That means freo walks into next years draft with a 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th a 7th rounder. So if Freo finish 14th again with 8 wins they would have the same picks as last year but with a 2nd rounder worth pick 23. So that's 5, 23, 77, 95 and 113.

They also ended up with picks 14, 31, 43, 65, 81, 99 and 117. The last 3 picks were pushed back by 4 due to free agency compo picks. Saying that, Had Freo held off contract talks with Sandilands and Ballantyne until after the trade period, both would of been likely not got a contract or 2019. Guys Like Sheridan, Apeness and Grey would of got another year as depth players.

As Far as Michael Johnson and Danyle pearce goes. Blame freo for giving Danyle pearce 2 year extension in the middle of 2016. Personally it should be just 1 year. He only played 3 games this year and 7 in 2017. He needed those 7 gamesin 2017 to make it to 101 games in case we get father son picks.

Michael Johnson only stayed after 2016 because he still had another year on the contract. Glad He played all 22 games in 2017 and so did Joel Hamling. Zac Dawson was turfed out after round 2 of 2017 after that horrible game vs Port. Other young talls such as Sam Collins, Griffin Logue and Brennan Cox were rotated as depth players. Alex Pearce was still recovering with at broken leg too. I could understand why Johnson played many games in 2017.

Johnson played only 13 games this year. So he was slowly phased out as Alex Pearce and Joel Hamling are freos 2 main tall defenders.

Difficult to know what they could have done better. Made the best of a bad situation with the Lions and did well with the FA period. Arguably have the best forward line in the clubs history.

Arguably the best forward line in the clubs history? Debateable. Only Hogan is capable of kicking 50 goals in a season out o that lot.

I still remember 2006 when Pavlich kicked 61 goals and Jeff Farmer kicked 55 goals.

Would of been interesting had freo kept Neale, Probably would of got a top 6 compo pick any way if freo finishes in the bottom 6 in 2019 as well. Certainly Would not of got Hogan though.

I was happy getting Lobb at a reasonable price.

 

[The_Eagles]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they are the “bottom 8 to top 4” bolter
Fyfe needs a 2013/14/15 type season and Walters needs to make his first All Australian
I quite like smug Rosco not sweaty palm excuse-laden stats-spouting Ross

 

[Freomaniac]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they are the “bottom 8 to top 4” bolter
Fyfe needs a 2013/14/15 type season and Walters needs to make his first All Australian
I quite like smug Rosco not sweaty palm excuse-laden stats-spouting Ross

Ross Has got no excuses now. He finally has a half decent Forward line in the Post Pavlich era.

Freo should make the 8 next season or at least try and get 10 wins. they are capable with the current squad they have now.

 

[Unique Name]

I think everyone is right about the little to no excuses. It might take some time to gel but with the experienced players we brought in we won't be playing a super youthful side like the previous two seasons.

Our age/experience profile will be around mid table and we have a more balanced list now bringing in some forward talent.

Lobb coming in as ruck/fwd will help massively. We leaked clearances when Tabs/Cox went in the ruck.

We had 8 wins in 2018 and 8 wins in 2017. I'm expecting that to push up to the 11-12 win mark. Either make finals or just miss out.

 

[Vintage]

Not enough depth or experience in 2019 to do much damage - 10 wins at best I reckon, IF we have a good injury run.

2020 and 21 should see improvement, with Sandi and Mundy the only real best 22 players to retire between now and then (and Sandi hasn’t played a full season for a long time so not a massive loss from what he’s been delivering).

 

[the harry]

Arguably the best forward line in the clubs history? Debateable.

May want to look up the definition of "arguably"

 

[Freo88]

I just had to read this post..... twice.

Now... lets talk about Ballantyne and Sandilands, well we will get to that later. Actually lets talk about those 2018 picks. I have posted this before and will post this again.

Freo walked into the 2018 Trade period with picks 5, 77 ,95 and 113. So essentially it was a 1st, 5th 6th and 7th rounder.

Now if you wondered why Freo had no 2018 2nd, 3rd and 4th rouder, lets talk about it.

-Freos 2018 2nd rounder was traded for Nathan Wilson from GWS which ended up pick 23. Fair trade for freo.

-Freos 2018 3rd rounder which was pick 41 was traded for Brandon Matera in which I was against. I wanted to get him but I would of rather waited one more season and Freo woud of got him as a free agent on a 3 or 4 year deal and Suns would of got a 2nd round compo pick

-Freos 2018 4th rounder which was pick 59 was traded with Hayden crozier for picks 40 and 82.

I knew once Freo got belted by Geelong in geelong in round 22. Freo will finish below the dogs to get pick 5. I also knew that Freo would trade pick 5 and a future 2nd rounder to try and get a teams 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder like picks 10, 28 and 46. I didn't expect Port to trade picks 11, 23, 29 and 47 for freos pick 5 and our 2019 3rd rounder.

West Coast did a similar trade in 2013. They traded pick 6 and 42, their 1st and 3rd rounder for Collingwoods picks of 11,29 and 49, a 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Now by the end of the trade period, Freo got Hogan, Lobb, Colyer and Conca through trades or Free Agency. They only traded out Neale and lost a 2019 3rd and 4th rounder. Which I don't mind. That means freo walks into next years draft with a 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th a 7th rounder. So if Freo finish 14th again with 8 wins they would have the same picks as last year but with a 2nd rounder worth pick 23. So that's 5, 23, 77, 95 and 113.

They also ended up with picks 14, 31, 43, 65, 81, 99 and 117. The last 3 picks were pushed back by 4 due to free agency compo picks. Saying that, Had Freo held off contract talks with Sandilands and Ballantyne until after the trade period, both would of been likely not got a contract or 2019. Guys Like Sheridan, Apeness and Grey would of got another year as depth players.

As Far as Michael Johnson and Danyle pearce goes. Blame freo for giving Danyle pearce 2 year extension in the middle of 2016. Personally it should be just 1 year. He only played 3 games this year and 7 in 2017. He needed those 7 gamesin 2017 to make it to 101 games in case we get father son picks.

Michael Johnson only stayed after 2016 because he still had another year on the contract. Glad He played all 22 games in 2017 and so did Joel Hamling. Zac Dawson was turfed out after round 2 of 2017 after that horrible game vs Port. Other young talls such as Sam Collins, Griffin Logue and Brennan Cox were rotated as depth players. Alex Pearce was still recovering with at broken leg too. I could understand why Johnson played many games in 2017.

Johnson played only 13 games this year. So he was slowly phased out as Alex Pearce and Joel Hamling are freos 2 main tall defenders.

Arguably the best forward line in the clubs history? Debateable. Only Hogan is capable of kicking 50 goals in a season out o that lot.

I still remember 2006 when Pavlich kicked 61 goals and Jeff Farmer kicked 55 goals.

Would of been interesting had freo kept Neale, Probably would of got a top 6 compo pick any way if freo finishes in the bottom 6 in 2019 as well. Certainly Would not of got Hogan though.

I was happy getting Lobb at a reasonable price.

Couple of points:
- When did we lose a 2019 4th rounder? Was that involved in the Colyer trade? Thought that was a 2018 4th rounder involved.
- Danyle Pearce playing an extra 7 games to reach 100. Whilst the father son may have entered their thinking, i would be very surprised if his children choose freo over Port (assuming they're good enough) considering he has just moved back to Adelaide.

 

[dzussy]

I just had to read this post..... twice.

Now... lets talk about Ballantyne and Sandilands, well we will get to that later. Actually lets talk about those 2018 picks. I have posted this before and will post this again.

Freo walked into the 2018 Trade period with picks 5, 77 ,95 and 113. So essentially it was a 1st, 5th 6th and 7th rounder.

Now if you wondered why Freo had no 2018 2nd, 3rd and 4th rouder, lets talk about it.

-Freos 2018 2nd rounder was traded for Nathan Wilson from GWS which ended up pick 23. Fair trade for freo.

-Freos 2018 3rd rounder which was pick 41 was traded for Brandon Matera in which I was against. I wanted to get him but I would of rather waited one more season and Freo woud of got him as a free agent on a 3 or 4 year deal and Suns would of got a 2nd round compo pick

-Freos 2018 4th rounder which was pick 59 was traded with Hayden crozier for picks 40 and 82.

I knew once Freo got belted by Geelong in geelong in round 22. Freo will finish below the dogs to get pick 5. I also knew that Freo would trade pick 5 and a future 2nd rounder to try and get a teams 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder like picks 10, 28 and 46. I didn't expect Port to trade picks 11, 23, 29 and 47 for freos pick 5 and our 2019 3rd rounder.

West Coast did a similar trade in 2013. They traded pick 6 and 42, their 1st and 3rd rounder for Collingwoods picks of 11,29 and 49, a 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Now by the end of the trade period, Freo got Hogan, Lobb, Colyer and Conca through trades or Free Agency. They only traded out Neale and lost a 2019 3rd and 4th rounder. Which I don't mind. That means freo walks into next years draft with a 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th a 7th rounder. So if Freo finish 14th again with 8 wins they would have the same picks as last year but with a 2nd rounder worth pick 23. So that's 5, 23, 77, 95 and 113.

They also ended up with picks 14, 31, 43, 65, 81, 99 and 117. The last 3 picks were pushed back by 4 due to free agency compo picks. Saying that, Had Freo held off contract talks with Sandilands and Ballantyne until after the trade period, both would of been likely not got a contract or 2019. Guys Like Sheridan, Apeness and Grey would of got another year as depth players.

As Far as Michael Johnson and Danyle pearce goes. Blame freo for giving Danyle pearce 2 year extension in the middle of 2016. Personally it should be just 1 year. He only played 3 games this year and 7 in 2017. He needed those 7 gamesin 2017 to make it to 101 games in case we get father son picks.

Michael Johnson only stayed after 2016 because he still had another year on the contract. Glad He played all 22 games in 2017 and so did Joel Hamling. Zac Dawson was turfed out after round 2 of 2017 after that horrible game vs Port. Other young talls such as Sam Collins, Griffin Logue and Brennan Cox were rotated as depth players. Alex Pearce was still recovering with at broken leg too. I could understand why Johnson played many games in 2017.

Johnson played only 13 games this year. So he was slowly phased out as Alex Pearce and Joel Hamling are freos 2 main tall defenders.

Arguably the best forward line in the clubs history? Debateable. Only Hogan is capable of kicking 50 goals in a season out o that lot.

I still remember 2006 when Pavlich kicked 61 goals and Jeff Farmer kicked 55 goals.

Would of been interesting had freo kept Neale, Probably would of got a top 6 compo pick any way if freo finishes in the bottom 6 in 2019 as well. Certainly Would not of got Hogan though.

I was happy getting Lobb at a reasonable price.

Crikey, all I basically said was he has no excuses. Didnt need a reply with chapters and the history of bloody Jeff Farmer ?

 

[Freomaniac]

Couple of points:
- When did we lose a 2019 4th rounder? Was that involved in the Colyer trade? Thought that was a 2018 4th rounder involved.
- Danyle Pearce playing an extra 7 games to reach 100. Whilst the father son may have entered their thinking, i would be very surprised if his children choose freo over Port (assuming they're good enough) considering he has just moved back to Adelaide.

Ok As I Said, we traded out our 2018 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders last year.

Yes we traded out our 2019 4th rounder to Essendon to get travis colyer. Freo traded their 2018 4th rounder and Hayden Crozier for picks 40 and 82

 

[Freomaniac]

Crikey, all I basically said was he has no excuses. Didnt need a reply with chapters and the history of bloody Jeff Farmer ?

Go read your post again. Everyone said it was stupid to give Ballantyne and Sandilands one more season. Yet people forget we only had a 1st, 5th, 6th and 7th rounder.

So you want freo to replace a decent ruckman in Sandilands with a 7th rounder?

As I said, Had Freo knew that we would end up with a mid 1st, mid 2nd and mid 3rd rounder with pick 5 out. Both Ballantyne and Sandi would likely to be gone.

You also said Michael Johnson should of retired 2 years ago, I disagreed. He had to hang around for 2017 and 2018 while Cox and Alex Pearce was developing. Also Alex Pearce was out of the whole 2017 season with a broken leg.