Racing Stakes Day 2018

Remove this Banner Ad

iluvparis said:
Lol what 3yo's retired that would have been competitive with Winx. Menari? :D:D:D
Click to expand...
Not sure who but balance of probabilities something improves a couple lengths, whether thats Menari or someone else no one will ever know.

First Seal beat Winx as a 3yo. Horses improve as they get older. Winx improved what, 10 lengths from 3yo to 5yo? So why couldn't a Menari or someone improve 2-3 lengths?

Theres been a heck of a lot of 3yos who wouldn't have had to find too much extra, only 2-3 lengths and they'd have beaten Winx on occasions.

Balance of probabilities and on past history we would have had a few improve that 2-3 lengths if not for retirement.

You pot Kementari who got 1.6lengths to her, so I can only gather from your opinion of Kementari that you think there has been better Autumn 3yos than Kementari around in the past 5 years. These Autumn 3yos are much better as Spring 5yos when they would have knocked off Winx.
 
AvantGardener said:
Not sure who but balance of probabilities something improves a couple lengths, whether thats Menari or someone else no one will ever know.

First Seal beat Winx as a 3yo. Horses improve as they get older. Winx improved what, 10 lengths from 3yo to 5yo? So why couldn't a Menari or someone improve 2-3 lengths?

Theres been a heck of a lot of 3yos who wouldn't have had to find too much extra, only 2-3 lengths and they'd have beaten Winx on occasions.

Balance of probabilities and on past history we would have had a few improve that 2-3 lengths if not for retirement.

You pot Kementari who got 1.6lengths to her, so I can only gather from your opinion of Kementari that you think there has been better Autumn 3yos than Kementari around in the past 5 years. These Autumn 3yos are much better as Spring 5yos when they would have knocked off Winx.
Click to expand...

Yes if you think that Winx was anywhere near here best that day against Kem that would be relevant.....she wasn't. He also got weight off her that day. Trap For Fools and Ventura Storm finished within 2 lengths of her a month ago too. So what!

If some 3yos 'only needed to find an extra 2-3 lengths' to beat her - some would have - its not like 1000 are being retired en masse every season. None have - none have got close.

It is a completely garbage argument to denigrate the fact she is the GOAT.

Kem is in fact the exact PROOF that your logic is unsound. He hasn't gone anywhere and far from beating her hasn't been able to WIN A SINGLE RACE AS AN OLDER HORSE.

L e L
 
iluvparis said:
Yes if you think that Winx was anywhere near here best that day against Kem that would be relevant.....she wasn't. He also got weight off her that day. Trap For Fools and Ventura Storm finished within 2 lengths of her a month ago too. So what!

If some 3yos 'only needed to find an extra 2-3 lengths' to beat her - some would have - its not like 1000 are being retired en masse every season. None have - none have got close.

It is a completely garbage argument to denigrate the fact she is the GOAT.

Kem is in fact the exact PROOF that your logic is unsound. He hasn't gone anywhere and far from beating her hasn't been able to WIN A SINGLE RACE AS AN OLDER HORSE.

L e L
Click to expand...
Winx has benefit over past greats because when she has an off day its Trap for Fools, Ventura Storm chasing her home rather than Northerly/Sunline/Lohnro etc. It means her win record is inflated. Thats exactly my point. When Saintly or Sunline had an off day they didn't have Trap for Fools and Venture Storm chasing them. Hence Winx is inflated.

Its denigrating to the stars of the past to be judged harshly when they had to deal with tougher fields more regularly so an off day resulted in a loss not a close win over Trap for Fools.

So Kementari possibly hasn't improved. Thats one. Its only a balance of probabilities that some would have improved. I never said all. Some go backwards, some improve. Which ones would have improved I don't know but law of averages and past history says there would have been a few
 

Log in to remove this ad.

AvantGardener said:
Winx has benefit over past greats because when she has an off day its Trap for Fools, Ventura Storm chasing her home rather than Northerly/Sunline/Lohnro etc. It means her win record is inflated. Thats exactly my point. When Saintly or Sunline had an off day they didn't have Trap for Fools and Venture Storm chasing them. Hence Winx is inflated.

Its denigrating to the stars of the past to be judged harshly when they had to deal with tougher fields more regularly so an off day resulted in a loss not a close win over Trap for Fools.

So Kementari possibly hasn't improved. Thats one. Its only a balance of probabilities that some would have improved. I never said all. Some go backwards, some improve. Which ones would have improved I don't know but law of averages and past history says there would have been a few
Click to expand...

Yes I guess Saintly was pretty unlucky to run into Champions like Peep On The Sly and Hula Flight when he had off days :rolleyes:

Same garbage arguments put forward by the better in my day types that never hold up to any scrutiny.

You are denigrating the true star and massively over rating the old timers - we have had this argument to death on here for the last two years and your side has been proven wrong every single time. It is absolute BS that fields back in the day where any tougher than they are now.

As for your last point - you don't understand - there are enough 3yos STILL AROUND that your law of averages should have meant that at least one would have improved past her by now.....none have.
 
AvantGardener said:
Do you think there were 3yo colts who are 2 lengths better than Kem, Happy Clapper and Trap for Fools?
Click to expand...

Irrelevant question - the way you think about the argument makes no logical sense. You are basically saying a 3yo colt that beat TTF by 2 lengths would beat Winx because of the Turnbull. It is laughably inept logic. To be fair - your rants re: internationals in the Melbourne Cup should have already proven to me your racing views have little credibility.
 
AvantGardener said:
Not sure who but balance of probabilities something improves a couple lengths, whether thats Menari or someone else no one will ever know.

First Seal beat Winx as a 3yo. Horses improve as they get older. Winx improved what, 10 lengths from 3yo to 5yo? So why couldn't a Menari or someone improve 2-3 lengths?

Theres been a heck of a lot of 3yos who wouldn't have had to find too much extra, only 2-3 lengths and they'd have beaten Winx on occasions.

Balance of probabilities and on past history we would have had a few improve that 2-3 lengths if not for retirement.

You pot Kementari who got 1.6lengths to her, so I can only gather from your opinion of Kementari that you think there has been better Autumn 3yos than Kementari around in the past 5 years. These Autumn 3yos are much better as Spring 5yos when they would have knocked off Winx.
Click to expand...

i'll have some of what you're smoking please
On many of these occasions she was never touched with the whip or ridden out as hard as the others
 
AvantGardener said:
Winx has benefit over past greats because when she has an off day its Trap for Fools, Ventura Storm chasing her home rather than Northerly/Sunline/Lohnro etc. It means her win record is inflated. Thats exactly my point. When Saintly or Sunline had an off day they didn't have Trap for Fools and Venture Storm chasing them. Hence Winx is inflated.

Its denigrating to the stars of the past to be judged harshly when they had to deal with tougher fields more regularly so an off day resulted in a loss not a close win over Trap for Fools.

So Kementari possibly hasn't improved. Thats one. Its only a balance of probabilities that some would have improved. I never said all. Some go backwards, some improve. Which ones would have improved I don't know but law of averages and past history says there would have been a few
Click to expand...
The real difference is that there are none of those types because she doesn't allow other horses to build as meaningful a CV given she has a monopoly on ~6 of the more prestigious G1s each year
 
Duck and weave boys you know she wouldn't have won 29 straight in any other era.

Quantity of the 3yos still around means jack. Its the quality and the quality is all retired. The quantity handed us Happy Clapper, and Kermadec and Kem getting to 1.5 lengths but theres been better horses than those never given a crack. Just admit it her record would be more like 15-20/29 much more like every other champ had to contend with.
 
Viva la Mattner said:
i'll have some of what you're smoking please
On many of these occasions she was never touched with the whip or ridden out as hard as the others
Click to expand...
She was ridden out when Happy Clapper and Kermadec carried more weight than her and just went down.
Theres been better horses than Happy Clapper and Kermadec retired without having a shot who would have beaten her on their day.
 
I'm not even saying horses like Press Statement, Zoustar, Hallowed Crown are better than her. Not by a long stretch. But given what Happy Clapper and Kermadec were able to do you would have to think a few of these retired 3yos would have impacted her record.
It would have impacted her record to a level similar to Sunline etc thus changing this GOAT talk.
 
iluvparis said:
Yes I guess Saintly was pretty unlucky to run into Champions like Peep On The Sly and Hula Flight when he had off days :rolleyes:

Same garbage arguments put forward by the better in my day types that never hold up to any scrutiny.

You are denigrating the true star and massively over rating the old timers - we have had this argument to death on here for the last two years and your side has been proven wrong every single time. It is absolute BS that fields back in the day where any tougher than they are now.

As for your last point - you don't understand - there are enough 3yos STILL AROUND that your law of averages should have meant that at least one would have improved past her by now.....none have.
Click to expand...
#bredtobespasticsandthereforeare
I am not a better in my day person. The sprinters are the best in the world and we will 100 percent get great sprinters again soon
As for 1600-2400m horses, they are are absolute POO with a capital POO! We might fluke a champion mare or 2 again soon, but no colt in the near future or hardly any gelding who shows ability and then sold to Asia will be allowed to reach its peak ability. The proof of that is second rate overseas horses come over and kill them and Winx destroys them

I think Winx is an out and out superstar, one of the best we have ever seen BUT i will never acknowledge her as the best for the same reason i dont rate Lohnro, Shes protected and wont race unless they are sure she will win.
And before someone says 4 Cox plates blah blah blah Makybe Divas 3 Melbourne Cup wins >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 Cox plate wins. And i think MD is slightly overated too, But at least she kept meeting a harder challenge every time.
 
AvantGardener said:
Duck and weave boys you know she wouldn't have won 29 straight in any other era.

Quantity of the 3yos still around means jack. Its the quality and the quality is all retired. The quantity handed us Happy Clapper, and Kermadec and Kem getting to 1.5 lengths but theres been better horses than those never given a crack. Just admit it her record would be more like 15-20/29 much more like every other champ had to contend with.
Click to expand...

I ask again - which better horses? Just admit you have NFI
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

AvantGardener said:
I'm not even saying horses like Press Statement, Zoustar, Hallowed Crown are better than her. Not by a long stretch. But given what Happy Clapper and Kermadec were able to do you would have to think a few of these retired 3yos would have impacted her record.
It would have impacted her record to a level similar to Sunline etc thus changing this GOAT talk.
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is if Phar Lap was around with Maykbe Diva.....
If buts and candynuts, shes the GOAT no question
 
AvantGardener said:
I'm not even saying horses like Press Statement, Zoustar, Hallowed Crown are better than her. Not by a long stretch. But given what Happy Clapper and Kermadec were able to do you would have to think a few of these retired 3yos would have impacted her record.
It would have impacted her record to a level similar to Sunline etc thus changing this GOAT talk.
Click to expand...

Lol she beat Press Statement by 3.5 eased up 2 years ago - you are a muppet mate - and I'm out of your laughable hypothetical nonsense.
 
AvantGardener said:
Duck and weave boys you know she wouldn't have won 29 straight in any other era.

Quantity of the 3yos still around means jack. Its the quality and the quality is all retired. The quantity handed us Happy Clapper, and Kermadec and Kem getting to 1.5 lengths but theres been better horses than those never given a crack. Just admit it her record would be more like 15-20/29 much more like every other champ had to contend with.
Click to expand...
i agree with you. she would have a Sunline type resume. Even if she raced in fields like the Mares race on Saturday, there is every chance one time she would meet a Amphertrite type traffic jam (thats not her fault its just luck in racing) but she races in small fields of walking machines so she will dominate every time.
 
Viva la Mattner said:
i'll have some of what you're smoking please
On many of these occasions she was never touched with the whip or ridden out as hard as the others
Click to expand...
the whip pretty much does nothing on most horses, improves other horses about a neck at most or sometimes has a detrimental effect on a finish of a horse. Its the most over rated excuse for losing.
 
HeathComeBack said:
i agree with you. she would have a Sunline type resume. Even if she raced in fields like the Mares race on Saturday, there is every chance one time she would meet a Amphertrite type traffic jam (thats not her fault its just luck in racing) but she races in small fields of walking machines so she will dominate every time.
Click to expand...

Lel - Im not going to aruge with the back in my day types like Heathy is (despite him laughably denying it) and just start posting facts.

Has faced double figure fields at half her races in the last year.

Streak includes wins in fields of 18, 16, 14, and 15.
 
AvantGardener said:
If I have to point out what horses were better than Happy Clapper and Kermadec before they were prematurely retired you are the one with NFI.
Click to expand...

Please point them out as if this is going to be of any relevance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

juice t
Racing December Daily Punt: The 12 Days of Olliemas
2
Replies
43
Views
4K
IKnowtheDog
IKnowtheDog
Viva la Mattner
  • Locked
  • Poll
Racing Caulfield Cup Day 2022
12 13 14 15 16
Replies
384
Views
16K
Suncraze
S
Optimistic Dog
  • Locked
VRC Derby 29 Oct 2022 (we love iluvparis day)
4 5 6 7 8
Replies
183
Views
6K
pendlebury_10
pendlebury_10

Remove this Banner Ad

Back
Top