Werewolf Werewolf Game: Boncer v DapperJong

[Wosh]

It lead to some good discussion but we all agreed the mod gets the right of interpretation. Bonce did well

It’s fun to have a little dig and whinge, part of the game. But yeah the mod decides and the game goes on. As I said next week no one will give a s**t, it will be just another funny werewolf memory.

 

[MWPP]

I have an issue with this and there was some discussion in the dead PM. In another scenario a simple villager could just out the head vamp so he/she gets lynched. It would be a heroic village death.
.

I asked about this scenario in the thread because I feared being recruited after being so invested in the village , and got told that it would be “against the spirit of the game”
The idea of a heroic village death appealed to me . I was more likely to simply out myself without outing anyone else though .

 

[Barrybran]

I guess others were making (wrong) assumptions about por_please_ya , EJW and Agent93 though , unfortunately

I was fairly confident porps was telling the truth about being a villager. I got EJW completely wrong and managed to convince two separate factions that he was an evil head (whoops!). Keeping Agent around after he exposed was the smart move for the village but, no disrespect intended here, evil had far more experience than the active villagers and you guys got played something cruel.

What are intimidations ?

Actions where one player is forced by another player to do or not do something (blackmail, silence, voting a certain way, etc.)

I have an issue with this and there was some discussion in the dead PM. In another scenario a simple villager could just out the head vamp so he/she gets lynched. It would be a heroic village death.

If we are going to have vampires then if you are converted then you should be loyal to the head vamp imo. Dav asked Barry his role and he said villager and then 3KZ didn't want to be converted. It made the role redundant so if the converted aren't made to be loyal don't have the vamp role.

Completely fair! As I said before, this was the first time I was converted and I had no idea how to play the role. I asked boncer and the response I got back was effectively "its up to you". After the discussion surrounding the SK the previous game, not wanting to show bias one way of the other and the vigourous discussions in game and in the Jongs PM, it highlighted that freedom to play how they choose is important to a lot of players. Wooshette was quite outspoken about this so if I'm a vamp in another game there is now an element of "do I recruit her?" knowing she may sell me out. On one hand, I don't like it. On the other, it adds another layer to the game. The only way around this is to write it into the rules.

I asked about this scenario in the thread because I feared being recruited after being so invested in the village , and got told that it would be “against the spirit of the game”
The idea of a heroic village death appealed to me . I was more likely to simply out myself without outing anyone else though .

Keep in mind that if this happens 2-3 times you'll see the role being written out of games for a while. I hope it doesn't come to that because you'll find the variety quite interesting.

 

[Wosh]

I was fairly confident porps was telling the truth about being a villager. I got EJW completely wrong and managed to convince two separate factions that he was an evil head (whoops!). Keeping Agent around after he exposed was the smart move for the village but, no disrespect intended here, evil had far more experience than the active villagers and you guys got played something cruel.


Actions where one player is forced by another player to do or not do something (blackmail, silence, voting a certain way, etc.)


Completely fair! As I said before, this was the first time I was converted and I had no idea how to play the role. I asked boncer and the response I got back was effectively "its up to you". After the discussion surrounding the SK the previous game, not wanting to show bias one way of the other and the vigourous discussions in game and in the Jongs PM, it highlighted that freedom to play how they choose is important to a lot of players. Wooshette was quite outspoken about this so if I'm a vamp in another game there is now an element of "do I recruit her?" knowing she may sell me out. On one hand, I don't like it. On the other, it adds another layer to the game. The only way around this is to write it into the rules.


Keep in mind that if this happens 2-3 times you'll see the role being written out of games for a while. I hope it doesn't come to that because you'll find the variety quite interesting.

If it’s in the rules that you have to be vamp I’ll be vamp, if it’s not in the rules then I won’t.

 

[Barrybran]

If it’s in the rules that you have to be vamp I’ll be vamp, if it’s not in the rules then I won’t.

This is the key part I reckon. Same issue I had with boncer in your game - wasn't in the rules, he got free reign. Pretty happy with that now that I've talked it over with people but definitely highlights the need for people to read the rules and not make assumptions.

 

[sante]

Agree with kdavva74, if you’re recruited and in another role, you become both. I was evil and recruited once and we worked as a total group. At some point I think it’s fine to back stab one group but to refuse to play or lie about your role is crap and ruins the fun of having a vampire

 

[MWPP]

Barrybran did the vamps realise you were a Jong when you Jongmailed deaneus to save yourself ?

 

[Barrybran]

Barrybran did the vamps realise you were a Jong when you Jongmailed deaneus to save yourself ?

I doubt it. They didn't know I was the Jongmailer. They didn't even know I was a Jong.

 

[Dingster]

Barrybran did the vamps realise you were a Jong when you Jongmailed deaneus to save yourself ?

He had told dav before I was recruited that he was a boncer. I had no reason to doubt it. Either did dav. Live and learn.

 

[Wosh]

This is the key part I reckon. Same issue I had with boncer in your game - wasn't in the rules, he got free reign. Pretty happy with that now that I've talked it over with people but definitely highlights the need for people to read the rules and not make assumptions.

This, every single time.
I always put the roles and ruleset for those roles in the OP of the pm’s.
When the game is starting I always write and bold ‘please read the rules carefully’
If you want to ask questions and clarify things before the game that’s fine and often helpful, mods sometimes rehash old rule’s that need tweaking.
Once the game starts that’s it, it’s up to you to know them for THAT game. Mods stuff up too but it’s not an easy job so we try to be nice about it and move on. Sometimes lol.

 

[MWPP]

This revelation that Barrybran pretended to be a villager answers my question about whether 3KZ learnt some inside info from his brief time as a vampire - clearly not since the vampires themselves didn’t get any

 

[Wosh]

Anyway I’m sure I’m on a lot of lists but meh, so worth it.
Enjoyable game and aftermath.

 

[ChappyUK]

Nope. As I said, I planned on moving our kill off chappy and onto kdav before deadline to rid us of all of the vamps. I lost track of time and didn’t make the switch.

To make it clear, I was delaying the switch because of vamps in the faction. Obviously if I made that switch any time except immediately before deadline they would just switch it back. Chappy in my eyes was basically a placeholder, albeit a placeholder I was happy to see die if I didn’t execute what I meant to.

Campaigner

 

[Barrybran]

This revelation that Barrybran pretended to be a villager answers my question about whether 3KZ learnt some inside info from his brief time as a vampire - clearly not since the vampires themselves didn’t get any

3KZ had access to all of the information in the vampires PM. Granted, there wasn't much in there except for Ding's targets and who we'd planned to hit/recruit. Just on your last line though, this is part of the strategy for recruitment roles - using what abilities you do have to find out information you don't have and can't get. Recruiting Ding was huge because it gave the vampires a kill instead of the village. Recruiting 3KZ was huge because of the protection factor. We also had two known night-immune evil and two flogs available to recruit as well.

 

[Wosh]

3KZ had access to all of the information in the vampires PM. Granted, there wasn't much in there except for Ding's targets and who we'd planned to hit/recruit. Just on your last line though, this is part of the strategy for recruitment roles - using what abilities you do have to find out information you don't have and can't get. Recruiting Ding was huge because it gave the vampires a kill instead of the village. Recruiting 3KZ was huge because of the protection factor. We also had two known night-immune evil and two flogs available to recruit as well.

Faaaaarken vamps can EABBOD

 

[Agent93]

The Agent call was a glorious **** up on behalf of the whole village, helped along by evil can’t hold 3kz accountable for that.

Setup on day one as well when the doctor took the WC doctor telling a flog how to vote as 'evil coaching'.

That one is open for interpretation. Some will say I could have won with the vampires or Jongs. Some will say I could only win with the Jongs. boncer gave me freedom to play the role whatever way I chose.

Win Condition: When the number of Jong = the number of Boncers when the Dapper, Vigilante, Doctor and Dank420_ are all dead.

In theory, given that as win condition the Jongs could have won with 5 left if both Ding and 3KZ were dead. There's no need for either Dappers or Jongs to have eliminated (all of) the Vampires which is usually the case, the aim being that a recruited player cannot win with their old allegiance now they are a vamp.
Which leads me to:

Win Condition: When the number of Vampires = the number of Boncers when the Dapper, Jong, Vigilante, Doctor and Dan420_

This was odd too, Vamps win condition is usually similar to the SK in past games I've played. Barry could not have won as a vampire as his own death was a requirement of the Vampire win in this game.

 

[Barrybran]

In theory, given that as win condition the Jongs could have won with 5 left if both Ding and 3KZ were dead. There's no need for either Dappers or Jongs to have eliminated (all of) the Vampires

True but Ding was a vampire and the easiest way to remove the doc was to recruit him as well. Helped both of my teams.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I will say it was frustrating recruiting a Jong who said he was a villager, and a Doctor who didn't want to participate.

I would have 1000% if boncer had got back and said I was wrong. I would have accepted that and got on with it. Promise.

 

[Smeg Head]

I would have 1000% if boncer had got back and said I was wrong. I would have accepted that and got on with it. Promise.

You get my 3 entertainment votes, 2 for Wosh's rampage, and 1 for deanus pulling out the win.