Development of junior batsmen

[western royboy]

Kids just simply don’t get the chance to bat for long periods of time unless they make it into a pathway system, and even then all those pathway systems are looking for big hitters and kids who can score quickly.

The ‘everyone gets a go’ approach means you get max 10 overs these days to bat as a junior, so why wouldn’t you have a crack and try to score as many as possible? Being there on 4* and being retired can’t be very fufilling.

Pathway programs have been sucked in by the t20 stuff as well, they aren’t interested in kids who can properly build and graft an innings, that’s not exciting, they’ll pick the big kid who can whack it every time.

Comps everywhere are seeing more one dayers and more t20s into the fixture, I don’t see it as an issue that’s going to fix itself anytime soon.

Long gone are the days where a 14 year old Ricky Ponting would go out and make 150 every weekend and just keep batting and batting and batting.

The NSW / Sydney Grade Cricket comp is far and away the best system left in Australia - Green Shield (U/16’s) & Poidevan Gray (U/21’s) provide plenty of opportunities - there is no surprise that NSW produce a high number of 1st Class players and Test players - the Blue / Green baggy bullshit is just that bullshit - their system is far superior

 

[The Speaker]

What happened to Jake Doran?

 

[corbies]

What happened to Jake Doran?

What do you mean? Made 750 runs @ 45 in the shield last year. Still only 21.

 

[The Speaker]

What do you mean? Made 750 runs @ 45 in the shield last year. Still only 21.

And this year he's gone 32, 2, 12 (OD), 7, 11, 9, 21, 7*, 33 (FC). I hope he makes it, but clearly something's gone a bit awry given how he was being talked up as a youth cricketer.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

What do you mean? Made 750 runs @ 45 in the shield last year. Still only 21.

Yeah.

Would be good to see him and his ilk spend a good few years in shield working their s**t out and riding the bumps of bad form. Realistically the majority of our best batsmen in the 90s-2010 era spent a good few years in shield at least.

Ponting and S Waugh were the exception not the rule.

 

[corbies]

And this year he's gone 32, 2, 12 (OD), 7, 11, 9, 21, 7*, 33 (FC). I hope he makes it, but clearly something's gone a bit awry given how he was being talked up as a youth cricketer.

Sorry I thought you meant in a "where are they now?" way.

 

[western royboy]

And this year he's gone 32, 2, 12 (OD), 7, 11, 9, 21, 7*, 33 (FC). I hope he makes it, but clearly something's gone a bit awry given how he was being talked up as a youth cricketer.

A few observations; youngsters jumping from state to state for an opportunity invariably hit a wall at some stage - I hark back to Watson leaving Qld and S Law saying that at that point in time he wasn’t in the best 11 so he should wait - he was probably right. Secondly batsmen from Tas & Vic would struggle to have seen a good track before November to have had a hit on. I remember playing practice matches on Turf in August in Sydney - unheard of in Victoria & Tas - the couch is still dormant then

 

[Yoda_]

What do you mean? Made 750 runs @ 45 in the shield last year. Still only 21.

And in two - four years NSW come knocking with a nice contract to which Tas receive nothing for developing a NSW batsmen.!

Well played MSW, we’ll played


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Casey Cat]

If there was a universal bench mark used - let's say Under 16 club cricket teams and Senior club cricket teams - now compared to the past, I'm sure it would tell a different tale.

All that's happened is that they've added more levels underneath. A metro club that used to have Under 14 teams, Under 16 teams and seniors now also fields Under 12 teams, Under 10 teams and Under 8 teams. These younger age groups have heaps of teams (from clubs in the wealthier suburbs anyway).

Sure, overall club team numbers have gone up. On the surface things are healthy (raw numbers) but there are actually fewer cricketers feeding into senior teams than there were previously. And that's before you even consider the quality of what is coming through.

Yep this is it. I think so much of it is the lack of participation and numbers in under 16s and grade cricket. As a manager/team leader in a supermarket the last 5 years I've had a fair bit of experience asking 15-18yos (and even older) if they can work shifts here and there. With many adolescents and young men they say they're unavailable due to football or soccer training/playing. Amount of times ANYONE has said they can't due to cricket in the last half decade? Zero.

Becoming more and more obvious we hit a participation peak (under 16s and seniors wise) around 1994-96. The massive amount playing at the time meant the top level talent sustained the shield and district leagues underneath it for perhaps the next decade or so. Kept things looking good but at the same time the amount continuing to play through to 16s and then seniors dwindled right down. That top talent gradually got older or left the system for other reasons. What has been coming through to replace it isn't anywhere near as good because it just hasn't had to be.

 

[revo333]

The NSW / Sydney Grade Cricket comp is far and away the best system left in Australia - Green Shield (U/16’s) & Poidevan Gray (U/21’s) provide plenty of opportunities - there is no surprise that NSW produce a high number of 1st Class players and Test players - the Blue / Green baggy bullshit is just that bullshit - their system is far superior

It's clearly been better the last 20 years.

The Melbourne talent probably prefer to earn 5 to 10k a year playing local AFL in their 20's instead of sweating it out on summer afternoons for nothing.

 

[PhatBoy]

The NSW / Sydney Grade Cricket comp is far and away the best system left in Australia - Green Shield (U/16’s) & Poidevan Gray (U/21’s) provide plenty of opportunities - there is no surprise that NSW produce a high number of 1st Class players and Test players - the Blue / Green baggy bullshit is just that bullshit - their system is far superior

It is the best system but it doesn’t cancel out the baggy green coming with a baggy blue stigma either. From Steve Waugh’s initial incarnation through to the embarrassment of Nic Maddinson and plenty in between - hell off the top of my head I can remember Simon Cook (remember him - he took 5-fer on debut and then got run over by a steamroller working for a local council) starting out in Victoria with a bit of a bang, moving to NSW and actually getting worse, before being picked for the test side.

Doubtless the grade system there is arguably the best in the world. But blues players do get fairly well looked after.

 

[Kram]

It is the best system but it doesn’t cancel out the baggy green coming with a baggy blue stigma either. From Steve Waugh’s initial incarnation through to the embarrassment of Nic Maddinson and plenty in between - hell off the top of my head I can remember Simon Cook (remember him - he took 5-fer on debut and then got run over by a steamroller working for a local council) starting out in Victoria with a bit of a bang, moving to NSW and actually getting worse, before being picked for the test side.

Doubtless the grade system there is arguably the best in the world. But blues players do get fairly well looked after.

Sorry it's one of the most ridiculous myths in world sport. They simply have always had better depth of players, it's not rocket science. It's not as if s**t players and or ones out of left field don't get picked from other states. Vics are the worst for going on about it but never say a word about Rob Quiney's baggy green, pie chucker McGain and Hastings being picked to open the bowling at the WACA at military pace.

 

[PhatBoy]

Sorry it's one of the most ridiculous myths in world sport. They simply have always had better depth of players, it's not rocket science. It's not as if s**t players and or ones out of left field don't get picked from other states. Vics are the worst for going on about it but never say a word about Rob Quiney's baggy green, pie chucker McGain and Hastings being picked to open the bowling at the WACA at military pace.

They do have more depth. No argument. And they have produced more quality players than anywhere else I’d imagine. But as a neutral - who is from NSW and has a reasonably good acquaintance who has been through both the state and national system, I think it definitely gives an advantage.

Hastings has nearly 250 first class wickets at 26.
In comparison to players like Beer, Hauritz, Cullen, Agar, White, Krezja and any other number of rubbish spinners between Macgill and Lyon, McGain’s domestic record stacks up fine.

Quiney certainly fits the bill though.

 

[PhatBoy]

Sorry it's one of the most ridiculous myths in world sport. They simply have always had better depth of players, it's not rocket science. It's not as if s**t players and or ones out of left field don't get picked from other states. Vics are the worst for going on about it but never say a word about Rob Quiney's baggy green, pie chucker McGain and Hastings being picked to open the bowling at the WACA at military pace.

They do have more depth. No argument. And they have produced more quality players than anywhere else I’d imagine. But as a neutral - who is from NSW and has a reasonably good acquaintance who has been through both the state and national system, I think it definitely gives an advantage.

Hastings has nearly 250 first class wickets at 26.
In comparison to players like Beer, Hauritz, Cullen, Agar, White, Krezja and any other number of rubbish spinners between Macgill and Lyon, McGain’s domestic record stacks up fine.

Quiney certainly fits the bill though.

 

[Kram]

Hastings has nearly 250 first class wickets at 26.
In comparison to players like Beer, Hauritz, Cullen, Agar, White, Krezja and any other number of rubbish spinners between Macgill and Lyon, McGain’s domestic record stacks up fine.

Quiney certainly fits the bill though.

There's some classic examples there of why just looking at pure stats on their own in sport when considering promoting a player to higher level is overrated. Say Hastings who whilst I think is a fine cricketer and was handy in ODIs, you can't tell me that it was much of a surprise that at his pace the best batsman in the world weren't troubled at all by his bowling in a Test match.

 

[PhatBoy]

There's some classic examples there of why just looking at pure stats on their own in sport when considering promoting a player to higher level is overrated. Say Hastings who whilst I think is a fine cricketer and was handy in ODIs, you can't tell me that it was much of a surprise that at his pace the best batsman in the world weren't troubled at all by his bowling in a Test match.

Considering a bowler who rarely breaks 130kp/h has had an absolute picnic against Australia virtually whenever he meets them (Philander) I don’t see it as being especially relevant.

The best Sri Lankan quick ever was the same, the bloke who literally just won Pakistan a test series against australia, West Indies’ best bowler, Anderson etc.

Ironically two of the better examples of blues players being picked on next to no evidence have actually been master strokes - Warner and Cummins did three-fifths of f***-all between them to earn a spot. It actually worked perfectly.

 

[Kram]

Considering a bowler who rarely breaks 130kp/h has had an absolute picnic against Australia virtually whenever he meets them (Philander) I don’t see it as being especially relevant.

Yeah sure it's possible but those guys are fairly rare exceptions.

 

[big_e]

Yeah sure it's possible but those guys are fairly rare exceptions.

Glenn McGrath did okay at that pace.

 

[western royboy]

There's some classic examples there of why just looking at pure stats on their own in sport when considering promoting a player to higher level is overrated. Say Hastings who whilst I think is a fine cricketer and was handy in ODIs, you can't tell me that it was much of a surprise that at his pace the best batsman in the world weren't troubled at all by his bowling in a Test match.

How he was picked and then given the new ball remains one of the great unsolved mysteries of all time...he didn’t even take the new ball for Victoria at the time...

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Coaching batting isn’t hard if you understand the basics and can identify and show how to correct flaws. 99% of technical flaws come from grip, backlift and stance

Have you seen George Bailey's new stance? Standing there pointing his arse at the bowler. I guess his shield scores justify this ridiculous approach ... 11, 1, 0, 8, 1, 6. I remember when Bailey could bat.

 

[western royboy]

Have you seen George Bailey's new stance? Standing there pointing his arse at the bowler. I guess his shield scores justify this ridiculous approach ... 11, 1, 0, 8, 1, 6. I remember when Bailey could bat.

When the ball is delivered (like Chanderpaul before him) he’s in the right spot - it looks stupid but he gets to the position which Guru Greg coined as being “actively neutral” (& no im not taking the piss that’s fact) - if it works good luck to him

 

[ROOTA#6]

When the ball is delivered (like Chanderpaul before him) he’s in the right spot - it looks stupid but he gets to the position which Guru Greg coined as being “actively neutral” (& no im not taking the piss that’s fact) - if it works good luck to him

Exactly. The position he is in when the ball is delivered is actually excellent. I just don't understand how he decided that turning his arse to the bowler first was a good idea

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Bottom line looks very healthy - raw numbers are good. Reality is quite different and the bulk of any actual growth (people participating in cricket regularly) is largely confined to 5-9 year olds. It's easier to get a 5 year old to try a one-hour-per-week program for a term than it is to get a teenager to play cricket every weekend of the summer.

Commitment to cricket is the biggest problem. So many other things for teenage kids to be doing these days. I just believe many kids now haven't the slightest idea what you mean when you talk about commitment.

When I was a kid, I was a committed cricketer. This meant turning up to practice whenever it was on. When at practice, finding something to do, whether it was a fielding drill, etc. Working on my game and trying to improve upon weaknesses. It meant being available for ALL matches during the season, not just turning up when you feel like it. It meant cricket being your number 1 priority and nothing came between you and playing cricket.

I imagine all clubs go through this these days. Kids at our club turn up to practice when they feel like it, usually on selection nights. They stand around watching if not being asked to bat or bowl. I caught one kid at practice sitting on his bum and playing with his mobile phone. I told him to put it away ... he seemed shocked. During the year they come up with all sorts of excuses for missing games .... schoolies, rock concerts, etc. We have kids missing cricket because they are attending a concert LATER THAT EVENING. WTF is that all about? Apparently they need to rest up and prepare for the concert.

We had a young player not turn up to a match today. The team played 1 short. When I contacted him to find out why he hadn't showed up, he told me he had a sore finger. A SORE FINGER!!! FFS!!!! Then I asked why he never informed us of his unavailability, he said he'd posted it on Twitter and Facebook. Give me a break. Maybe if he didn't spend so much time tacking away on his mobile, his finger may not be so sore. I told him next time it would be a good idea if he actually told someone ... like the coach, or his captain. I could sense he still didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

I despair for the future of our game. Rant over. Needed to get it off my chest.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

When the ball is delivered (like Chanderpaul before him) he’s in the right spot - it looks stupid but he gets to the position which Guru Greg coined as being “actively neutral” (& no im not taking the piss that’s fact) - if it works good luck to him

But it's obviously not working.

 

[western royboy]

But it's obviously not working.

It works because he gets into the right spot at ball release - what comes after that is the bit that isn’t working