List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

[La Dispute]

Walsh is the more conservative choice, a rock solid quality prospect whom I think is a step above Bailey Smith, but I can respect others choices and insights.
Coming from the wild side I’d dearly love to take Rankine or Lukosius we’ve lost the sparkle and magic on the field, for too long.
Maybe in the next draft, surely the conservatism will come to an end.

Smith and Caldwell are both very safe selections IMO. And they’ve both got more x-factor and better disposal than Walsh.

Again - I’m not buying into the Walsh narrative. TAC is a long way from AFL football and success at underage level is not a perfect indicator of success at AFL level.

 

[dlb99]

My prediction for the best AFL players from the upper end of the 2019 draft:

1. Sam Walsh
2. Max King
3. Bailey Smith
4. Izak Rankine
5. Jye Caldwell
6. Nick Blakey
7. Ben King
8. Riley Collier-Dawkins

Yes, I am predicting Jack Lukosius will be a bust.

 

[Sector 7G]

Yeah. My thoughts are often at odds with Knightmare. And everyone else for that mater. We all have differing opinions and views.

I won't knock him though. He puts his view out there and everyone gets many wrong and many right.

Knightmare's view is not high on my preferred list though.

While I like that he has his own opinions that are well researched and thought out, he does seem to have a much better memory with where he has gone out on a limb and had a hit rather than his misses.

Made a big post on how bad SOS's tall recruiting was but omitted CC in the write up. Was critical of recruiting JGM and JSOS but his previous power rankings he had them lower than where they were recruited. Easy to say JGM was a bad selection after the fact.

The ESPN gig seems to have gone to his head a little.

 

[BlueBlood84]

GC don't have a future 2nd to give.

We don't either, and according to AFL guidelines we can not trade our 2019 1st unless we get a 2nd round involved.

Ok i didn't look into their future picks. Didn't realise they don't have a future 2nd.

Can it be one of their seconds this year?

 

[BlueView]

Ok i didn't look into their future picks. Didn't realise they don't have a future 2nd.

Can it be one of their seconds this year?

Wouldn’t be difficult for them to trade one with another club for a future second

 

[dlb99]

Ok i didn't look into their future picks. Didn't realise they don't have a future 2nd.

Can it be one of their seconds this year?

AFL rules a wishy-washy.

Strictly speaking, no.
Reality, who the hell knows.

 

[Soapy V]

If we could somehow trade Pick 1 and next years First Round Pick for Picks 3, 6, & 24 this year I would do it. This years top 10 etc is very good and where our list is now I have no issue putting most of our eggs in one basket this year.

If we were to add 2 of Lukosius, Caldwell or Smith plus a Duursma McHenry or Valente at 24 to our list this year we are set IMO. The it's Goddard Blakey BSOS & Hickmott.

 

[katmanblue]

I don’t understand why a lot of people are so keen to get rid of our future 1st.

It’s likely to be a top 5 picks.

I wouldn’t be giving it away for to mid 1st rounders

It's short sighted.

And how do we fit all of these draftees in on GameDay?

Most won't be getting a game regularly, so you would expect their development would be a bit slower than guys like SPS or Dow who played regularly from day 1

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app
Edited to be less offensive.

 

[BlueBlood84]

If we could somehow trade Pick 1 and next years First Round Pick for Picks 3, 6, & 24 this year I would do it. This years top 10 etc is very good and where our list is now I have no issue putting most of our eggs in one basket this year.

If we were to add 2 of Lukosius, Caldwell or Smith plus a Duursma McHenry or Valente at 24 to our list this year we are set IMO. The it's Goddard Blakey BSOS & Hickmott.

Definitely what i am keen for to happen. But don't think GC do it.
In saying that happy to draft Walsh at 1. Seen him play a few times live. Will be a great player.

 

[Brutalitops]

If we could somehow trade Pick 1 and next years First Round Pick for Picks 3, 6, & 24 this year I would do it. This years top 10 etc is very good and where our list is now I have no issue putting most of our eggs in one basket this year.

If we were to add 2 of Lukosius, Caldwell or Smith plus a Duursma McHenry or Valente at 24 to our list this year we are set IMO. The it's Goddard Blakey BSOS & Hickmott.

You would have us enter the 2019 draft with only two third round picks? We've already traded our second round (Setterfield), our fourth round (Newman) and our fifth (McGovern).

 

[The Smoking Gun]

Hmmmmm,

"an overwhelming majority within the industry"

or

"knightmare"

Gee, gimme 24 hours to mull that one over.

FWIW, I think he's spot on. Lukosius, Smith and Rankine have far more scope for growth and expansion (development/upside) in their game than Walsh. They'll all take 18 months/2 years before they really become relevant at AFL level. By that time those 3 probably will have sailed straight past Walsh.

I'll throw up another one who'll likely undergo a massive metamorphosis once he enters an elite AFL environment. Hately. They'll strip some of the upper body size off him and replace it with lean muscle mass. They'll build up his core through the thighs, arse, abdomen and lower back. Then they'll hand him over over to a running coach to increase his acceleration over the first 5-10 steps. Already has the tank, attitude, work ethic, knows how to find the ball and distribute it. For a club prepared to invest in the development, Hately could well prove to be every bit the weapon Cripps and Wines are. We don't need him, but you get the picture.

I think too many people only see the here and now.

 

[TerryWallet]

FWIW, I think he's spot on. Lukosius, Smith and Rankine have far more scope for growth and expansion (development/upside) in their game than Walsh. They'll all take 18 months/2 years before they really become relevant at AFL level. By that time those 3 probably will have sailed straight past Walsh.

I'll throw up another one who'll likely undergo a massive metamorphosis once he enters an elite AFL environment. Hately. They'll strip some of the upper body size off him and replace it with lean muscle mass. They'll build up his core through the thighs, arse, abdomen and lower back. Then they'll hand him over over to a running coach to increase his acceleration over the first 5-10 steps. Already has the tank, attitude, work ethic, knows how to find the ball and distribute it. For a club prepared to invest in the development, Hately could well prove to be every bit the weapon Cripps and Wines are. We don't need him, but you get the picture.

I think too many people only see the here and now.

As i said, everyone has their own opinions and visions and that will forever be a fact. Drafts are like Yearling Sales. Everyone can see certain qualities in lots of players/yearlings but their personal judgement/vision gets drawn to certain individuals.

That's a rough way of saying everyone sees their own diamonds i suppose.

I see Walsh as that inate midfielder and inate elite pro and leader. You/others see Smith as better. You make a case there for Hately, i could make a similar case for RCD. And so on and so forth.

I love the discussion in our draft thread every year. Open opinion and open discussion.

 

[marleyblue]

FWIW, I think he's spot on. Lukosius, Smith and Rankine have far more scope for growth and expansion (development/upside) in their game than Walsh. They'll all take 18 months/2 years before they really become relevant at AFL level. By that time those 3 probably will have sailed straight past Walsh.

I'll throw up another one who'll likely undergo a massive metamorphosis once he enters an elite AFL environment. Hately. They'll strip some of the upper body size off him and replace it with lean muscle mass. They'll build up his core through the thighs, arse, abdomen and lower back. Then they'll hand him over over to a running coach to increase his acceleration over the first 5-10 steps. Already has the tank, attitude, work ethic, knows how to find the ball and distribute it. For a club prepared to invest in the development, Hately could well prove to be every bit the weapon Cripps and Wines are. We don't need him, but you get the picture.

I think too many people only see the here and now.

Love seeing all these differing opinions from those that actually get to watch the kids - SG can you elaborate on why you think Walsh has limited development (compared to others)? I though he was the opposite of a Daniel Rich - ie: a skinny kid that has the potential to put on a fair bit of size. He clearly already has the tank, the ability to find and distribute the ball and from my reading has worked on his inside game this year. Why wouldn't he continue to develop in a professional environment?

 

[Soapy V]

You would have us enter the 2019 draft with only two third round picks? We've already traded our second round (Setterfield), our fourth round (Newman) and our fifth (McGovern).

Lots to happen before that.

 

[Jeremias]

It's short sighted.

Not sure about that. It's a big decision with the future of the club firmly in mind.

And how do we fit all of these draftees in on GameDay?

You don't need to fit them all in on game day.

You create an environment where depth equals competition for spots, which can only be a good thing.

We've done it out of necessity in recent years, but there's no need for every draftee to be playing senior football each and every week.

Most won't be getting a game regularly, so you would expect their development would be a bit slower than guys like SPS or Dow who played regularly from day 1.

And why is that a bad thing?

Players develop at different rates regardless of which level they play at.

 

[Stamos]

If we could somehow trade Pick 1 and next years First Round Pick for Picks 3, 6, & 24 this year I would do it. This years top 10 etc is very good and where our list is now I have no issue putting most of our eggs in one basket this year.

It would severely limit our ability to trade for players next year though.

 

[Arr0w]

It would severely limit our ability to trade for players next year though.

I don't agree with that, for the majority of players you could target, you don't need 2, early 1st rounders

 

[Brutalitops]

It would severely limit our ability to trade for players next year though.

Puts a line through Josh Kelly before 2019 even starts.

 

[Soapy V]

Puts a line through Josh Kelly before 2019 even starts.

Why? We have a future first round, can use players and other incentives. Our list will be so much better. If Kelly picked us we would get a deal done

Also, with adding Smith Caldwell & say Valente to our side now do we want Kelly in 2020? He will be 26 and cost a heap. We will have an extremely talented and deep group that we will have to pay for.

There is also players like Cognilio as Free Agents. I rate Kelly very highly but I don't like paying everything for one player.

 

[Stamos]

I don't agree with that, for the majority of players you could target, you don't need 2, early 1st rounders

We would be left with 2 x 3rd rounders for the 1st 5 rounds of the draft, before it even starts.
That severely limits our options.

 

[Arr0w]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/11/14/surprise-number-one-headlines-champion-data-draft-rankings/

 

[Arr0w]

We would be left with 2 x 3rd rounders for the 1st 5 rounds of the draft, before it even starts.
That severely limits our options.

2020 picks?

 

[Soapy V]

2020 picks?

Yep, plus I don't expect us to do much after this year. FA will be a focus

 

[Brutalitops]

Why? We have a future first round, can use players and other incentives. Our list will be so much better. If Kelly picked us we would get a deal done

The players they would want are not players we want to lose. It neuters our trading potential in next years trading period while leaving us with slim pickings at the draft. Youre just robbing Peter to pay Paul on the hope we could develop two early firsts quickly.

Im not against trading pick 1 this year. I dont like it but #inSOSwetrust. If we were to trade it, then I would want to be gaining a 2019 first round pick not losing one.

 

[Arr0w]

Yep, plus I don't expect us to do much after this year. FA should/will be the focus