List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

[Bamboo Harvester]

If the game does start to open up as most of us along with the AFL want, he's going to be hard to stop.
Max King will be the other player I feel can really come into his own when he develops some mass. Going to be awfully hard to stop him.

There are so many players one wants and for so many reasons, but right now I'll side with needs.
I don't see GC possibly trading, but if they did somehow do something unusual, the notion of getting Rankine & Rozee is too mouth-watering.

Anyway, best stop dreaming and get back to reality; Welcome Sam Walsh

Max King looks like he could be anything, but we'll be welcoming Sam Walsh to the Blues

I could possibly see the GCS trading 6 and 24 for pick 4 from the Aints as reported...but only if the Aints aren't targeting Lukosius/M King (assuming Walsh, Rankine and Lukosius/M King go in the first three picks). If they're targeting Smith, they'll get him at 6.

I'm pretty certain GCS currently have more live draft picks than spots on the senior list, meaning they have to trade a 2nd rounder or potentially lose pick 29. They could trade it for a future pick, but technically, they'll be trading a pick that they can't use anyway, and get access to all three SA boys.

 

[Arr0w]

Maybe you're right but IIRC Schache also had/has a good tank and absolutely dominated his U18 carnival taking marks out on the lead. Patton would be a very good forward too if he didn't do his ACL 2 or 3 times.
I just don't see the aggression needed to be a good KPF at the top level like a JK, Cameron, Buddy, Walker, Dixon, Hogan. In saying that I'm sure he will be at the very least a serviceable AFL player.

Shache's tank was reasonable for a tall, but wasn't elite. I think there is better footy to come with Schache. Aggression, well he may not be a Carey, or even a Blakey who I rate highly also, but he certainly doesn't shirk a contest and will put his body on the line when needed

You have to remember he has been playing against men, this year, rather than junior footy, like many talls before him.

Wasn't his endurance at the combine only top 1/3 of the draft class or something? I remember it not being as good as I thought it had been...

This is the top 10 for the YoYo, all midfield types

Ned McHenry - level 22.2
Sam Walsh - 22.1
Luke English - 22.1
Will Golds - 21.8
Xavier O'Halloran - 21.6
Oscar Brownless - 21.6
Will Hamill - 21.4
Ely Smith - 21.4
Jez McLennan - 21.4
Lachlan Sholl - 21.4
Fraser Turner - 21.4

Lukosius 21.2. For a tall, that is elite

Is his endurance really that elite? He wasn't top 10 in the yoyo or 2km.

Weiters was top ten for the beep in his draft year.

Will he be able to find space in a zone where teams will hand over and let other players cover him?

I don't really think he has developed his game from last year. I am not spending a top 5 pick on a player I think will be like the Crows Lynch more so than the Hoff.

Time will tell.

"Jack Lukosius' brilliant foot skills were on show on the opening night of testing, when he scored 23 out of 30 in the kicking test and kicked 4.1 in the goalkicking test. He also highlighted his athleticism, running 2.98 seconds for the sprint and reaching level 21.2 in the YoYo."

Elite tank, and sub 3 seconds for 20 metre sprint. He is quicker than most talls and has a better tank than most of them. He will find plenty of space

How similar is he to Riewoldt?

In terms of tank, playing style, very similar and with a vastly superior kick

 

[BlueTang]

Shache's tank was reasonable for a tall, but wasn't elite. I think there is better footy to come with Schache. Aggression, well he may not be a Carey, or even a Blakey who I rate highly also, but he certainly doesn't shirk a contest and will put his body on the line when needed

You have to remember he has been playing against men, this year, rather than junior footy, like many talls before him.



This is the top 10 for the YoYo, all midfield types

Ned McHenry - level 22.2
Sam Walsh - 22.1
Luke English - 22.1
Will Golds - 21.8
Xavier O'Halloran - 21.6
Oscar Brownless - 21.6
Will Hamill - 21.4
Ely Smith - 21.4
Jez McLennan - 21.4
Lachlan Sholl - 21.4
Fraser Turner - 21.4

Lukosius 21.2. For a tall, that is elite



"Jack Lukosius' brilliant foot skills were on show on the opening night of testing, when he scored 23 out of 30 in the kicking test and kicked 4.1 in the goalkicking test. He also highlighted his athleticism, running 2.98 seconds for the sprint and reaching level 21.2 in the YoYo."

Elite tank, and sub 3 seconds for 20 metre sprint. He is quicker than most talls and has a better tank than most of them. He will find plenty of space



In terms of tank, playing style, very similar and with a vastly superior kick

Great post Arrow, no wonder Adelaide are so desperate for him apparently...

 

[bmaurizio]

Changes still need to be made, we arent there yet. Id say 6 or 7 changes to come at the end of 2019

At least but I’d expect 8 to 10 chances again.
To retire Simpson and Thomas. Kreuzer and Lobb until end 2020 maybe ? and let’s face it, Cuningham, Lang ,Pickett, Garlett,Le Bois, Levi , Phillips, Kerr, Polson all under scrutiny.
Easily 8 charges to the list next year

 

[thylacine60]

as we improve, a fringe player's chances of making it do also............fight me...........

 

[LemmingMaster]

I know player comparisons are hard, but is there anyone out there you can compare Luko too. I have seen nothing of this years kids coming through, other than highlights that everyone has seen

I guess Westhoff makes the most sense in some ways. Mobile tall that gets around the ground nicely.
Kicking is top shelf, one of the best kicks for a tall I've seen. Close to Buckley levels of ability.

He is a pure football that has abilities that will never show up in testing results. He will intercept mark, get cheap goals and so many other cheap kicks that sometimes you think are luck but he just reads the play quicker than most players.

I mean he could end up a Watts styled player, but I could see a McGovern styled forward/Defender as well.

 

[LemmingMaster]

I always have seen Riewoldt as a big athlete first and footballer second. To me thats back to front. I will cop flak no doubt but I will never see him as a real champion player. Question is do we want athletes or footballers?

You want footballers with athletic ability.

Volt may not have been a superstar (Carey, Judd, Ablett....) but he was just below those guys in reality.

 

[LemmingMaster]

I do find it interesting that we always look for the floor of Lukosius and label it say "Watts".
Walsh could have a floor of say Ed Curnow?
Smith could be Toumpas, O'Rouke...

All players can fail and have a below average floor comparison player.

 

[Blue and Blue]

You want footballers with athletic ability.

Volt may not have been a superstar (Carey, Judd, Ablett....) but he was just below those guys in reality.

Pretty ordinary kick it has to be said..Casboult territory at times.....a very good player....but no, not in their champion class in my book either

 

[HARKER]

as we improve, a fringe player's chances of making it do also............fight me...........

Absolutely. No need to be hunting stars for every corner.
It won't work and before you know it, the TPP is heading down a scary path.

One or two more stars won't hurt and if that comes about via Walsh and a senior player or two next year, then great.
Need to fill up with a few more senior role-players next year that just fit neatly into the gaps, whilst milking the talent we already have.......and if we can't do that with the youth we have now......we won't be able to do it with 3, 4 or 5 more first selections in the draft.

That does make for a List Management discussion, but this is a part of the reason I don't want 2,3 or even 4 first rounders as much as for wanting the best player that makes for the best fit.
I thought 2018 would be the year we largely tie up the loose ends via draft & trading. I was wrong. Next year is the big one and let's not trade next years first for another kid now, no matter how good he may end up being in another team. Best leave that aside for a rainy day and collateral required to make the best move for the club, at the right time.

 

[bmaurizio]

Great post Arrow, no wonder Adelaide are so desperate for him apparently...

Agree with Arrow, I’ve been screaming Lukosius all year but get shut down every time. The fixation and mania for midfielders is absurd. Every draft has elite midfielders in the top 5.
Its Mathew Rowell, Noah Anderson , Taheny or Wil Gould for 2019 all will be fine footballers.
Having said that if Silvagni prefers a conservative approach, Sam Walsh for a position we desperate need to rectify is our man.
An expert accumulatir of the footy excellent production, balanced hard working midfielder, good endurance whom may not have X factor but has leadership qualities.
We can’t go wrong, any one of the top five selections maybe even top 8 will be guns. They’re that good this draft 2018.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Agree with Arrow, I’ve been screaming Lukosius all year but get shut down every time. The fixation and mania for midfielders is absurd. Every draft has elite midfielders in the top 5.
Its Mathew Rowell, Noah Anderson , Taheny or Wil Gould for 2019 all will be fine footballers.
Having said that if Silvagni prefers a conservative approach, Sam Walsh for a position we desperate need to rectify is our man.
An expert accumulatir of the footy excellent production, balanced hard working midfielder, good endurance whom may not have X factor but has leadership qualities.
We can’t go wrong, any one of the top five selections maybe even top 8 will be guns. They’re that good this draft 2018.

I was JL all year if we kept pick 1, than started thinking safe and go Walsh and and now thinking Rankine.
Rankine for me is almost as safe as Walsh in terms of list build because I think we can find gun mids in future trades/FA and our top 2-6 pick next year but I don't think we can find another Rankine

 

[Blue and Blue]

Absolutely. No need to be hunting stars for every corner.
It won't work and before you know it, the TPP is heading down a scary path.

One or two more stars won't hurt and if that comes about via Walsh and a senior player or two next year, then great.
Need to fill up with a few more senior role-players next year that just fit neatly into the gaps, whilst milking the talent we already have.......and if we can't do that with the youth we have now......we won't be able to do it with 3, 4 or 5 more first selections in the draft.

That does make for a List Management discussion, but this is a part of the reason I don't want 2,3 or even 4 first rounders as much as for wanting the best player that makes for the best fit.
I thought 2018 would be the year we largely tie up the loose ends via draft & trading. I was wrong. Next year is the big one and let's not trade next years first for another kid now, no matter how good he may end up being in another team. Best leave that aside for a rainy day and collateral required to make the best move for the club, at the right time.

Exactly what Ive been saying. Keep our 1 pick and add to whats in place. We do need B+ players. We have a raft of star quality and youth.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I was JL all year if we kept pick 1, than started thinking safe and go Walsh and and now thinking Rankine.
Rankine for me is almost as safe as Walsh in terms of list build because I think we can find gun mids in future trades/FA and our top 2-6 pick next year but I don't think we can find another Rankine

Not quite sure how Walsh equates to safe as I think you mean in the context. Safe as in will be just what we absolutely need yes. Safe as in not as good as others might become...No. At some point a choice has to be made.
As for future trades..stuff that I say. I don't want to know about two years time or whatever. We are on the cusp of a great team for the now. Why risk it on an 'unsafe' player or on something we already have. The best midfielder is what we need most. Period.

In my opinion

 

[dlb99]

Sam Walsh has every chance to be our best player in the years to come (if we draft him).

Some folks are talking themselves into believe he is a scrub.

He will be elite at the AFL level.

 

[goreds]

I always have seen Riewoldt as a big athlete first and footballer second. To me thats back to front. I will cop flak no doubt but I will never see him as a real champion player. Question is do we want athletes or footballers?

Have to totally disagree with this. As a young player he spent most of his time on the wing/HF. He had a big tank then but his skill and overhead marking was simply sublime for a man of his height. I can remember analyzing a game saints V pies and he got shifted to a wing and turned the game by himself, it was like watching Kouta with his speed at that height.

If he didn’t bulk up to play CHF he could have been a monster in the midfield, all class...

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Yep, Nick Riewoldt was one of my favourite ever players to watch. An absolute gun with an incredible work rate.

 

[Robertio]

Yep, Nick Riewoldt was one of my favourite ever players to watch. An absolute gun with an incredible work rate.

Who could forget that mark in Sydney.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Not quite sure how Walsh equates to safe as I think you mean in the context. Safe as in will be just what we absolutely need yes. Safe as in not as good as others might become...No. At some point a choice has to be made.
As for future trades..stuff that I say. I don't want to know about two years time or whatever. We are on the cusp of a great team for the now. Why risk it on an 'unsafe' player or on something we already have. The best midfielder is what we need most. Period.

In my opinion

Safe as in even if he doesn't live upto the hype he will still be very handy to have on our list, same goes with Rankine. With JL if he doesn't live upto the hype then it's a wasted pick because we have tall forwards and 3rd tall defenders.

 

[Jimmae]

You want footballers with athletic ability.

Volt may not have been a superstar (Carey, Judd, Ablett....) but he was just below those guys in reality.

Have to totally disagree with this. As a young player he spent most of his time on the wing/HF. He had a big tank then but his skill and overhead marking was simply sublime for a man of his height. I can remember analyzing a game saints V pies and he got shifted to a wing and turned the game by himself, it was like watching Kouta with his speed at that height.

If he didn’t bulk up to play CHF he could have been a monster in the midfield, all class...

Should have been a champion CHB who could swing forward, but St Kilda never drafted another decent forward in his time there.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Safe as in even if he doesn't live upto the hype he will still be very handy to have on our list, same goes with Rankine. With JL if he doesn't live upto the hype then it's a wasted pick because we have tall forwards and 3rd tall defenders.

Ok yeah I get yer drift now....which I think we more or less agreed on really....I do feel its like splitting hairs in the end..who would want to be a list manager?

 

[Blue and Blue]

Should have been a champion CHB who could swing forward, but St Kilda never drafted another decent forward in his time there.

This I agree with. Always reckon it was a mistake by them. The errant kicking for goal ultimately hurt the team.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Won't happen, will be at least 8 changes

I just can't count out eight players on our list that should be delisted at the end of next season.

 

[Arr0w]

I just can't count out eight players on our list that should be delisted at the end of next season.

I can easily make a case for 12

Start the ball rolling with some retirements

Simmo, Daisy, Levi

Others injury prone/shown very little

Phillips, Pickett, Garlett, Lang, Lebois

Players under pressure

Cuners, Fasolo, Jones, Plowman

You could name a couple of others to this category

 

[Brutalitops]

We can’t go wrong, any one of the top five selections maybe even top 8 will be guns. They’re that good this draft 2018.

If there is to be a "dud" in the top 8, history numerology says it'll be pick 6. Pick 6s tend to average about half the games as the other top 8 picks.


https://www.draftguru.com.au

Just a strange anomaly of the draft. This where Allen Jackovich, Murray Vance, Damien Cupido, Ashley Sampi, Mitch Thorpe, and Beau Dowler have been selected.