List Mgmt. 2018 Draft Thread

[pjfairbairn]

I trust Taylor immensely, and while I had read up on a few guys who I wanted based on personality traits more than anything (e.g. McHenry, Sturt, McLennan), they were all gone before our first pick. I'd read an article on Sparrow, and was intrigued by him, and I'm thrilled we got Bedford so cheaply. Don't know enough/haven't formed opinions yet on Nietschke, Chandler, Hore or Jordon, but again, in Taylor we trust. Put them in a red and blue jersey and I'll back them in until they convince me otherwise.

But just one final word (from me at least) on Hogan. I wanted to keep him, some may recall, particularly when he said he was happy to stay and leave at the end of next year if we couldn't get the deal done. We're in premiership window now, and he's a 60+ goal KPF if fit. I'd rather him than May, but then I appreciate that externally people will respect that we got the deal done and looked after Jesse. There's a reason why blokes like Melk, Pig, Preuss, Kade, May want to come to MFC - our reputation as people managers is building.

But I won't sit back and allow people to make comments about Hoges being no good (he is very good), being a de-stabilizing influence at the Club (innuendo/guesswork), or saying that we got a fair deal for him (we should have fought harder).

 

[markm106]

I must admit from the little research I had done on possibly draft selections I’d only heard of Sparrow Bedford and Hoar. Didn’t know a whole lot about any other than Bedford as we weee likely taking him.
It’s pretty hard to criticise Taylor on this draft with the hand we had. Although people were taking this draft up I’d say it evened out after pick 20ish.
Clearly we’d have liked a key forward but if Taylor doesn’t rate any at our picks why bother? He selected hard nuts and a bit of speed. Time will tell but from what I’ve read and seen of Sparrow Bedford and Nietschke I’m thinking they’ll be possibly long term prospects.

 

[pjfairbairn]

Wonder if we will consider taking any of these DFA options?

 

[Demon 16]

Wonder if we will consider taking any of these DFA options?

So we can take 1 more onto the main list or the rookie list I think.

Neade is the only one that I’d be ok with a 1 year rookie spot

 

[markm106]

From what I’d seen pre draft no one other than Dodoro had Mosquito ahead of Bedford. Anyone think or hear anything different?

 

[Theo X]

Taking Jordan, who it seems no other club was interested in, with the pick 28 that we got from StKilda by trading 2 second rounders for, makes that trade even more baffling.

 

[Theo X]

Hogan asked if we could get a deal done could we get him home we had opportunity to bring in May and Kolo for him yeah we blinked first but i reckon it pays off in the long run when other players start seeing us as other players see Hawks. .

Also means other clubs know they can bend us over in trades though.

 

[Topkent]

How do people think we could have fought harder over Hogan? We pushed for a big deal and freo "walked away" from negotiations.

At the end of the day every one knew he wanted to leave so we had no negotiating power.

 

[Cannon82]

How do people think we could have fought harder over Hogan? We pushed for a big deal and freo "walked away" from negotiations.

At the end of the day every one knew he wanted to leave so we had no negotiating power.

So we had no negotiating power with Freo because despite having a year on his contract, we ended up giving Fremantle what they wanted. Contrast that with the Jake Lever deal, where he wanted to go, contract was up and... we ended up giving Adelaide what they wanted. Doesn't matter which side of the table we're on when it comes to lack of leverage, we're the ones who seem to have no negotiating power.

 

[Topkent]

I trust Taylor immensely, and while I had read up on a few guys who I wanted based on personality traits more than anything (e.g. McHenry, Sturt, McLennan), they were all gone before our first pick. I'd read an article on Sparrow, and was intrigued by him, and I'm thrilled we got Bedford so cheaply. Don't know enough/haven't formed opinions yet on Nietschke, Chandler, Hore or Jordon, but again, in Taylor we trust. Put them in a red and blue jersey and I'll back them in until they convince me otherwise.

But just one final word (from me at least) on Hogan. I wanted to keep him, some may recall, particularly when he said he was happy to stay and leave at the end of next year if we couldn't get the deal done. We're in premiership window now, and he's a 60+ goal KPF if fit. I'd rather him than May, but then I appreciate that externally people will respect that we got the deal done and looked after Jesse. There's a reason why blokes like Melk, Pig, Preuss, Kade, May want to come to MFC - our reputation as people managers is building.

But I won't sit back and allow people to make comments about Hoges being no good (he is very good), being a de-stabilizing influence at the Club (innuendo/guesswork), or saying that we got a fair deal for him (we should have fought harder).

Only 6 people have kicked 60+ goals in the last season's and we had the most inside 50s of any side this year. He isn't a guaranteed 60 goal forward at all.

 

[Topkent]

So we had no negotiating power with Freo because despite having a year on his contract, we ended up giving Fremantle what they wanted. Contrast that with the Jake Lever deal, where he wanted to go, contract was up and... we ended up giving Adelaide what they wanted. Doesn't matter which side of the table we're on when it comes to lack of leverage, we're the ones who seem to have no negotiating power.

How many good players have nominated Freo and Adelaide in the last 10 years? These clubs don't consistently get deals done for players where as we do. Look at the hawks and cats, people say they over paid for players but they consistently get blokes nominate their clubs.

We may have slightly 'lost' on the lever and Hogan deals

We also slightly won on the ' Hibberd, Melk, Garlett, Frost/ANB/Omac, May/Kolo deals.

It's swings and round abouts

 

[Topkent]

Taking Jordan, who it seems no other club was interested in, with the pick 28 that we got from StKilda by trading 2 second rounders for, makes that trade even more baffling.

You have no bloody idea who else was interested in him. Maybe someone was gonna take him and that's why we traded up.

 

[Topkent]

Also means other clubs know they can bend us over in trades though.

No they don't this is just crap.

 

[Franky_024]

Come for the draft talk, stay for ever popular "we got bent over in the trade period talk" that happened a month ago.

 

[pjfairbairn]

Only 6 people have kicked 60+ goals in the last season's and we had the most inside 50s of any side this year. He isn't a guaranteed 60 goal forward at all.

Sure, semantics, but if he played 25 games you'd back him to be close based on constant improvement (still young) and his goals return thus far in his career.

2015: 20 games, 44 goals
2016: 21 games, 41 goals
2017: 10 games, 20 goals
2018: 20 games, 47 goals

Maybe he's a 55 goal forward. You get my point though.

 

[Theo X]

No they don't this is just crap.

Nah you saying Hogan would just walk into the preseason draft next year leaving us with nothing had we kept him is just crap....it simply doesn't happen, otherwise we'd have done it with Lever last year instead of coughing up 2 first rounders.
On topic, Taylor is a gun and hasn't made a bad selection so far, so I'm happy with whoever he picked.

 

[Cannon82]

How many good players have nominated Freo and Adelaide in the last 10 years? These clubs don't consistently get deals done for players where as we do. Look at the hawks and cats, people say they over paid for players but they consistently get blokes nominate their clubs.

We may have slightly 'lost' on the lever and Hogan deals

We also slightly won on the ' Hibberd, Melk, Garlett, Frost/ANB/Omac, May/Kolo deals.

It's swings and round abouts

Obviously the teams who overpay to get players to their clubs get deals done. Because they pay overs. Yes, we do that.

If you're going to use hindsight on deals (ie Milkshakes), then surely the May / Kolodashnij deal has TBC written all over it. Not sure what the Frost deal was part of, but given we drafted ANB and OMac and you're one of the proponents of the draft being horribly inconsistent, find it odd that you're including that in your list of "wins".

 

[Topkent]

Obviously the teams who overpay to get players to their clubs get deals done. Because they pay overs. Yes, we do that.

If you're going to use hindsight on deals (ie Milkshakes), then surely the May / Kolodashnij deal has TBC written all over it. Not sure what the Frost deal was part of, but given we drafted ANB and OMac and you're one of the proponents of the draft being horribly inconsistent, find it odd that you're including that in your list of "wins".

But you have to use hindsight a little bit because trade deals aren't won or lost as the trade happens it takes years to understand the ramifications.

What deal do you think we should have got for Hogan?

 

[Topkent]

Nah you saying Hogan would just walk into the preseason draft next year leaving us with nothing had we kept him is just crap....it simply doesn't happen, otherwise we'd have done it with Lever last year instead of coughing up 2 first rounders.
On topic, Taylor is a gun and hasn't made a bad selection so far, so I'm happy with whoever he picked.

I didn't say it would happen, it's a hypothetical scenario of the negotiations of next year. Hogan wouldn't have signed a new deal and he was going back to WA. Freo had a pick before WC in the draft. They would have held all the cards next year.

 

[Topkent]

Sure, semantics, but if he played 25 games you'd back him to be close based on constant improvement (still young) and his goals return thus far in his career.

2015: 20 games, 44 goals
2016: 21 games, 41 goals
2017: 10 games, 20 goals
2018: 20 games, 47 goals

Maybe he's a 55 goal forward. You get my point though.

Except he's had back issues as a junior and now has to travel every second week plus a plantia fascia which I'll believe he's over when he's over it

 

[Cannon82]

But you have to use hindsight a little bit because trade deals aren't won or lost as the trade happens it takes years to understand the ramifications.

What deal do you think we should have got for Hogan?

You can't use hindsight when the trade is actually happening. Anyone can sit back five years after the fact and come up with a host of reasons on why any given deal was good / bad / indifferent. The Tyson / pick 9 for Josh Kelly trade was the right one for us at the time even though you'd take Kelly every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

The players have a value at the time of the trade. Hogan being contracted, a 23 year old key forward who should be chalking up 50-60 odd goals a season and Freo can finally build their forward line around... yeah, that's worth two firsts to the purple *ers. If a meh midfielder like that kid they traded to Gold Coast is worth pick 2, then Hogan is worth three firsts.

 

[RandB]

Taking Jordan, who it seems no other club was interested in, with the pick 28 that we got from StKilda by trading 2 second rounders for, makes that trade even more baffling.

Will he be the Jordan Gysberts of 2018?

 

[blitznu]

So we should have kept Hogan another year? a whole year of head dropping, arms thrown in the air, stopping on the spot to cry to the umpires, daily Hogan to Freo talk. * yeah i would have loved that im sure the club would have as well. We won that ******* trade dont give a flying * what anybody thinks. Hogan will never be as good as you campaigners seems to think he was or gonna be. next year we would have got less and our 2 biggest holes wouldnt be getting filled.

 

[blitznu]

You can't use hindsight when the trade is actually happening. Anyone can sit back five years after the fact and come up with a host of reasons on why any given deal was good / bad / indifferent. The Tyson / pick 9 for Josh Kelly trade was the right one for us at the time even though you'd take Kelly every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

The players have a value at the time of the trade. Hogan being contracted, a 23 year old key forward who should be chalking up 50-60 odd goals a season and Freo can finally build their forward line around... yeah, that's worth two firsts to the purple ******s. If a meh midfielder like that kid they traded to Gold Coast is worth pick 2, then Hogan is worth three firsts.

Hogan having a foot issue, mental issues, a party issue, attitude issue yeah he can go never reach his potential at freo where no1 ever does.
Weller wanted to go to Gold Coast no campaigner wants to go there every campaigner wants to leave and no doubt pick 2 would have so paying pick 2 to have someone actually stay is worth it just luckily for freo they had that player. so using that as an example is way off we all know how ****ed GCS are

 

[Topkent]

You can't use hindsight when the trade is actually happening. Anyone can sit back five years after the fact and come up with a host of reasons on why any given deal was good / bad / indifferent. The Tyson / pick 9 for Josh Kelly trade was the right one for us at the time even though you'd take Kelly every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

The players have a value at the time of the trade. Hogan being contracted, a 23 year old key forward who should be chalking up 50-60 odd goals a season and Freo can finally build their forward line around... yeah, that's worth two firsts to the purple ******s. If a meh midfielder like that kid they traded to Gold Coast is worth pick 2, then Hogan is worth three firsts.

You are clutching at straws if you think that what GC paid for the only half decent player ever to wanna go to their club has any relevance in another trade deal.

Hogan was worth as much as Freo were willing to pay.
Us scoring 40 less goals next year won't effect us anywhere near as much as May potentially saving the same.