Which team is closer to playing in finals - Carlton, Gold Coast or St Kilda?

[davis_756]

It's all good saying we have this and we have that, but it is a FACT, that this list have so far gone backwards.

All clubs can say, oh look at who we have, the potential is there, but until they show what they have, it means only that, potential.

IN YOUR PERSONAL OPINION which is WRONG we have gone backwards, that is a FACT.

I nor anyone else can make you see that which you blind yourself from seeing, one day you will learn.

 

[davis_756]

And right there is the problem.

Games of footy are still won in the midfield. Murphy isn't the player he was and Curnow is a ball butcher.

Then you've got Cripps, the poor bastard, and a bunch of unproven kids.

It's years from being able to regularly beat a Collingwood side with Beams 29, Sidebottom 28, Pendlebury 31, Adams 25, Treloar 26, Sier (delist), Crisp 25 , Phillips 22, Varcoe 31.

Collingwood's mids are proven and banked. And it's not like they won't continue to add to it.

It has never been harder to drag yourself out of the bottom four. It can take years. Even if you make great choices it can still take a very long time.

This will be a very slow process for Carlton.

I think you have your head in the sand, North finished bottom 4 and rebounded in 12 months to just miss out on finals, Richmond went from 13th to premiers the year beforehand. GWS went from 17th to missing finals by a game, the doggies went from 14th (missing the bottom 4 on % alone) to premiers.

Just because a couple of QLD sides who struggle with player retention have stayed near the bottom for a while doesn't mean it is hard to get out of.

As for the comparison with collingwoods midfield, it would be easy to argue most of those players besides Phillips/Sier have either peaked or started to decline and just in case you missed it were at least matched if not beaten by our midfield this year. (36-33 CL 16-7 CC Round 3, 27-31 CL 13-9 CC Round 14). While I can appreciate the concern i'd be disappointed if we were only matching their midfield in 18 months time, Cripps can do that by himself.

 

[Trav 20]

I think you have your head in the sand, North finished bottom 4 and rebounded in 12 months to just miss out on finals, Richmond went from 13th to premiers the year beforehand. GWS went from 17th to missing finals by a game, the doggies went from 14th (missing the bottom 4 on % alone) to premiers.

Just because a couple of QLD sides who struggle with player retention have stayed near the bottom for a while doesn't mean it is hard to get out of.

As for the comparison with collingwoods midfield, it would be easy to argue most of those players besides Phillips/Sier have either peaked or started to decline and just in case you missed it were at least matched if not beaten by our midfield this year. (36-33 CL 16-7 CC Round 3, 27-31 CL 13-9 CC Round 14). While I can appreciate the concern i'd be disappointed if we were only matching their midfield in 18 months time, Cripps can do that by himself.

You haven't addressed one issue I raised. That being that Cripps is your only quality midfielder. Do you realise how far back that puts you ?

All you've done is refer to another team who had one bottom four finish, but certainly wasn't mired to the bottom reaches of the ladder like Carlton has been.

Your post suggests to me you're delusional about Carlton's short-term prospects and in for a rude awakening.

You haven't reached 100 points in a game since round 11, 2016. That's 2.5 years.

 

[davis_756]

You haven't addressed one issue I raised. That being that Cripps is your only quality midfielder. Do you realise how far back that puts you ?

All you've done is refer to another team who had one bottom four finish, but certainly wasn't mired to the bottom reaches of the ladder like Carlton has been.

Your post suggests to me you're delusional about Carlton's short-term prospects and in for a rude awakening.

You haven't reached 100 points in a game since round 11, 2016. That's 2.5 years.

Haven't addressed one issue? As you deflect from the comparison with the pies midfield that worked out so well for you. FYI the club has looked at getting in players like Rockliff, Shiel and will again be in the hunt for a seasoned midfielder come the end of next year but in the mean time guys like SPS, Fisher, Cunningham, Setterfield & Kennedy are coming into their 3rd and 4th seasons and should be ready to start carrying the load regardless, labeling cripps our only quality midfielder is having a lend.

Now you go and change what you meant about it being hard to get out of the bottom 4 being specific to my side when I provide you sides who have rebounded out of it quite well. FYI we have been bottom four for 2 years in a row and 3 times in the last 11 seasons, not stapled there for a dozen years as you would have me believe.

Ahh finally the truth comes out, a Carlton hater just here to vent. My views on our short term prospects are that we improve across the board, where that actually gets us who knows but we will improve and continue to do so for the next 5+ years without losing anyone overly important.

 

[Trav 20]

Haven't addressed one issue? As you deflect from the comparison with the pies midfield that worked out so well for you. FYI the club has looked at getting in players like Rockliff, Shiel and will again be in the hunt for a seasoned midfielder come the end of next year but in the mean time guys like SPS, Fisher, Cunningham, Setterfield & Kennedy are coming into their 3rd and 4th seasons and should be ready to start carrying the load regardless, labeling cripps our only quality midfielder is having a lend.

Now you go and change what you meant about it being hard to get out of the bottom 4 being specific to my side when I provide you sides who have rebounded out of it quite well. FYI we have been bottom four for 2 years in a row and 3 times in the last 11 seasons, not stapled there for a dozen years as you would have me believe.

Ahh finally the truth comes out, a Carlton hater just here to vent. My views on our short term prospects are that we improve across the board, where that actually gets us who knows but we will improve and continue to do so for the next 5+ years without losing anyone overly important.

You sound like a football novice.

North were in the bottom 4 for one year. They played finals the year before.

Carlton have been bottom 5 for the last 5 years and picked up multiple spoons in that time. I call that being mired to the bottom reaches of the ladder.

You have one proven quality mid. The rest are speculative.

You may not like the facts, but the facts don't care about your feelings.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

You haven't addressed one issue I raised. That being that Cripps is your only quality midfielder. Do you realise how far back that puts you ?

All you've done is refer to another team who had one bottom four finish, but certainly wasn't mired to the bottom reaches of the ladder like Carlton has been.

Your post suggests to me you're delusional about Carlton's short-term prospects and in for a rude awakening.

You haven't reached 100 points in a game since round 11, 2016. That's 2.5 years.

Didn't know players had to stand out like Cripps to be 'quality midfielders'. If that was the case, Hawthorn would only have one (Mitchell), Melbourne would only have one (Oliver), Brisbane would only have one (Neale), Richmond would only have one (Martin).

Far out you talk a lot of crap.

Fisher unproven, spare me your nonsense. You must not have watched him at all this year. Dow led contested numbers for first year players as well. And sure let's say Murphy is past it an E.Curnow's a 'butcher' (who by the way led the tackle count after round 8 before that ridiculous suspension). That must mean Nathan Jones is past it as well.

You think too much about the player and nothing about the team. I think us blues supporters have every right to be excited about our prospects (which by the way, would not be 'short-term' ones).

Stop pretending you have any clue, because you're not a fortune teller. None of us are.

 

[davis_756]

You sound like a football novice.

North were in the bottom 4 for one year. They played finals the year before.

Carlton have been bottom 5 for the last 5 years and picked up multiple spoons in that time. I call that being mired to the bottom reaches of the ladder.

You have one proven quality mid. The rest are speculative.

You may not like the facts, but the facts don't care about your feelings.

See we can go in circles all day here, You say one thing I shoot that thing down and you go and change the goalposts rather then concede the loss like a man.

I think Murphy would find it a little insulting he isn't considered quality off the back of a few injuries that kept him out of most of 2018 and despite what you may preach and no matter how you try to spin it our midfield without walsh, setterfield or stocker was a match for a collingwood midfield you labelled as "proven quality" so you can appreciate me not really caring who in our midfield you believe are "quality".

You mention North but what about the doggies who went 15th 15th 14th 6th? Carlton also haven't been bottom 5 for 5 years but you already knew that before you made that bullshit "fact" up.

Now what didn't you mean that you actually really meant instead again?

 

[LoungeLizard]

IN YOUR PERSONAL OPINION which is WRONG we have gone backwards, that is a FACT.

I nor anyone else can make you see that which you blind yourself from seeing, one day you will learn.

It's not my opinion it is a fact.

Worst start to the season in the history of the club, and 1 of the worst seasons in the history of the club, but oh no, they haven't gone backward.

 

[davis_756]

It's not my opinion it is a fact.

Worst start to the season in the history of the club, and 1 of the worst seasons in the history of the club, but oh no, they haven't gone backward.

It is your opinion nothing more or less then that, stop trying to pass it off as something else and wasting all our time.

 

[caloschwaby]

This is just hindsight bias. Fact is, weird s**t can happen in football. I mean the WB’s won a flag and then disappeared into the night. Teams can come out of nowhere and others fall unexpectedly. Happens all the time without anyone having any foresight as what comes to eventually pass.

I understand where you’re coming from with that. If you’d told me last year Collingwood would make the grand final in 2018 I’d think you were crazy.
Though based on all data available it is very unlikely for Carlton to make the 8 next year, though we will have to wait and see...

 

[LoungeLizard]

It is your opinion nothing more or less then that, stop trying to pass it off as something else and wasting all our time.

If you think i'm wasting your time, then don't bother replying, it's quite simple mate.

But i find it quite intriguing, did you watch footy this year?

If you think you didn't go backwards, i'd hate to see a season where you think they did.

 

[davis_756]

If you think i'm wasting your time, then don't bother replying, it's quite simple mate.

But i find it quite intriguing, did you watch footy this year?

If you think you didn't go backwards, i'd hate to see a season where you think they did.

Your entire point is based SOLELY off a win:loss ratio at the end of the season and you want to have a crack at others for not watching the game? Piss off

It is not our fault you are incapable of analyzing a bit deeper and developing some BASIC understanding of the team before running your mouth off.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Your entire point is based SOLELY off a win:loss ratio at the end of the season and you want to have a crack at others for not watching the game? Piss off

It is not our fault you are incapable of analyzing a bit deeper and developing some BASIC understanding of the team before running your mouth off.

Ok smart arse, tell me why you had the worst start to a season in the history of your club then, if i am basing it solely at the end of the season?

Not real bright are you?

 

[davis_756]

Ok smart arse, tell me why you had the worst start to a season in the history of your club then, if i am basing it solely at the end of the season?

Not real bright are you?

Don't knit pick your little edits, go back to the start.

Wow, you won only 2 games and it's not controversial.

I would say you need to show a bit more promise than that.

You were saying?

 

[ManOfClay]

Carlton are great.

 

[Trav 20]

Didn't know players had to stand out like Cripps to be 'quality midfielders'. If that was the case, Hawthorn would only have one (Mitchell), Melbourne would only have one (Oliver), Brisbane would only have one (Neale), Richmond would only have one (Martin).

Far out you talk a lot of crap.

Fisher unproven, spare me your nonsense. You must not have watched him at all this year. Dow led contested numbers for first year players as well. And sure let's say Murphy is past it an E.Curnow's a 'butcher' (who by the way led the tackle count after round 8 before that ridiculous suspension). That must mean Nathan Jones is past it as well.

You think too much about the player and nothing about the team. I think us blues supporters have every right to be excited about our prospects (which by the way, would not be 'short-term' ones).

Stop pretending you have any clue, because you're not a fortune teller. None of us are.

Good grief. You really are deluded.

Dow is a sub 15 disposal player, which is fair enough given his age, so of course he's a mile off being "quality".

Fisher is sub 20 disposals with a sub 70 player rating average. He may become A-grade, but right now he's C to C-.

Personally, I'd rate quality as B+ and above.

As for Nathan Jones ? Of course he's past it. That's no revelation. Going into 2019 I'd rank him B-.

You and some of your cohorts need a dose of reality.

You must be shocked to be a 2 win/59% team.

 

[Trav 20]

See we can go in circles all day here, You say one thing I shoot that thing down and you go and change the goalposts rather then concede the loss like a man.

I think Murphy would find it a little insulting he isn't considered quality off the back of a few injuries that kept him out of most of 2018 and despite what you may preach and no matter how you try to spin it our midfield without walsh, setterfield or stocker was a match for a collingwood midfield you labelled as "proven quality" so you can appreciate me not really caring who in our midfield you believe are "quality".

You mention North but what about the doggies who went 15th 15th 14th 6th? Carlton also haven't been bottom 5 for 5 years but you already knew that before you made that bullshit "fact" up.

Now what didn't you mean that you actually really meant instead again?

I'm obviously talking to a teen.

But yes, you are right. It was bottom 6 for five years, not bottom 5.

Congrats.

 

[davis_756]

I'm obviously talking to a teen.

But yes, you are right. It was bottom 6 for five years, not bottom 5.

Congrats.

I am 30 if you really must know not that it is any of your business but you appear desperate so i'll throw you a bone.

Why make up the bottom 5 statement then if it was bottom 6? Melbourne spent 9 years in a row in the bottom 6 before losing the final 2 games of the 2016 season to miss a finals birth, are you trying to tell me we need to remain in the bottom 6 for another 4 years because it took your own club that long?

It has never been harder to drag yourself out of the bottom four. It can take years. Even if you make great choices it can still take a very long time.

That was your original point, you provided no actual evidence to back up this bold claim and when given examples of clubs that had done it in 12 months like north you changed the goal posts to "mired to the bottom like carlton". In hindsight you don't actually have a point here worth rebutting, it is simply pure speculation on your part that you believe we will be on the Melbourne end of the scale when it comes to rebounding from the bottom.

Until you come up with some decent evidence why that will be the case anything else you say is irrelevant.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Carlton are great.

Another quality post. Well done.

 

[bmaurizio]

IMHO we’ll surprise a few teams next year, shoukd win between 6 to 8 games, we’ve traded in some experience in the forward line and should be more potent and in general a little better depth, more quality youth again in Walsh, Stocker & Setterfield, we’ll have a formidable midfield in a few years time.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Firstly, I was going off memory with regards to bottom 5. But you must have been so excited to look the ladder up and discover "I've got him, we were only bottom 6 in 2014 and not bottom 5 for the last five years".

Well done you. You went from bottom third of the ladder to bottom third of the ladder.

Secondly, when I referred to a "bottom 4 club" I assumed it was obvious I was referring to a club that had spent considerable time at the bottom of the ladder and not just a single year. Oh gee, there I am "moving the goalposts again". No, I'm just dealing with a special person.

When one talks of graduating out of the bottom four they're talking about a club mired there. It's pretty obvious. Unless, of course, you're an idiot.

Pretty sure that when things you have stated as fact have been proven incorrect then you really should forgo the right to call the person who was correct the idiot.
Well, unless you’re an .....

 

[Trav 20]

Pretty sure that when things you have stated as fact have been proven incorrect then you really should forgo the right to call the person who was correct the idiot.
Well, unless you’re an .....

When a poster is calling Fisher and Dow "quality players" they're incorrect. They may be in the future, but they're not now.

When they correct someone saying Carlton weren't bottom five for the last five years and instead sixth last instead it's called being lucky.

Ninety-nine percent stupidity in posting isn't corrected by a single mistake of another.

 

[davis_756]

Firstly, I was going off memory with regards to bottom 5. But you must have been so excited to look the ladder up and discover "I've got him, we were only bottom 6 in 2014 and not bottom 5 for the last five years".

Well done you. You went from bottom third of the ladder to bottom third of the ladder.

Secondly, when I referred to a "bottom 4 club" I assumed it was obvious I was referring to a club that had spent considerable time at the bottom of the ladder and not just a single year. Oh gee, there I am "moving the goalposts again". No, I'm just dealing with a special person.

When one talks of graduating out of the bottom four they're talking about a club mired there. It's pretty obvious. Unless, of course, you're an idiot.

Bullshit you were, you were changing a slight detail to suit your point of view and we both know it. If you lack the testicular fortitude to even admit that at this point then I'll ask what is the point of this?

You didn't refer to a "bottom 4 club" you simply stated it was "harder to drag yourself out of the bottom 4", that in no way stipulated a specific length of time spent in the bottom 4 and of course as you already know we have currently spent just 2 years in the bottom 4. Round and Round we go and yet you still have no point.

For the sake of moving on from this point I will concede your point, you meant bottom 6 sides that have been in the bottom 6 for 5 years or more when you said "hard to drag yourself out of the bottom 4".

Again I ask you, what evidence do you have to back up this outlandish statement and how do you know specifically when Carlton will be out of the bottom 4/6/whatever other gibberish you wish to make up at this point?

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

When a poster is calling Fisher and Dow "quality players" they're incorrect. They may be in the future, but not now.

When they're saying Carlton weren't bottom five the last five years and discover that in one year in said period they were sixth last instead of fifth last they're lucky.

Ninety-nine percent stupidity in posting isn't corrected by a single mistake of another.

Try it Trav, you might find it liberating:

 

[davis_756]

When a poster is calling Fisher and Dow "quality players" they're incorrect. They may be in the future, but not now.

When they're saying Carlton weren't bottom five the last five years and discover that in one year in said period they were sixth last instead of fifth last they're lucky.

Ninety-nine percent stupidity in posting isn't corrected by a single mistake of another.

Get your hand off it, the only player who I mentioned would be insulted by the statement that cripps is our only quality midfielder is Murphy.

Why make s**t up like that? It is pathetic