Review Winners and losers of the draft (2018 edition)

[Dudersaurus]

It was a quirk that Stocker was drafted at pick 19 so it helps keep it rolling considering carlton gave us a pick 19 and we gave it back to you

A) I'm a crows supporter so they didn't give me anything.

B) we didn't give them the pick they gave us, we gave them an earlier one. You could maybe argue we traded the pre corrupted pick 19 for next year's maybe pick 19 via GWS, but that's not really anything to do with Gibbs or Carlton.

 

[McCraeBF]

WINNERS
Adelaide--Will Hamill will be the steal of this draft
Bulldogs--2 x 250 game players West and Smith plus Khamis has grown and is now 196cm steal
Port Adel--Big win for them 4 Solid picks did very well
GWS--they smashed it best draft ever for them 5 A grade players
Gold Coast---again there best ever draft Rankine is that good
Losers
Brisbane--Horrible draft
Collingwood--over paid massive
Frem--again shocking draft
North--YUKKKKK 8 for Thomas is shocking Crocker would not make ant other Sub list

 

[DangerSloane]

WINNERS
Adelaide--Will Hamill will be the steal of this draft
Bulldogs--2 x 250 game players West and Smith plus Khamis has grown and is now 196cm steal
Port Adel--Big win for them 4 Solid picks did very well
GWS--they smashed it best draft ever for them 5 A grade players
Gold Coast---again there best ever draft Rankine is that good
Losers
Brisbane--Horrible draft
Collingwood--over paid massive
Frem--again shocking draft
North--YUKKKKK 8 for Thomas is shocking Crocker would not make ant other Sub list

What makes you think Hamill will be such a steal? Not saying you're wrong just dont know much about him.
Agree with pretty much what you've said in your winners.

Losers are hard to say. I think Freo did well to get Sturt and Valente with picks that werent early.

We made North pay through the nose, which I enjoyed.

 

[bird_man]

WINNERS
Adelaide--Will Hamill will be the steal of this draft
Bulldogs--2 x 250 game players West and Smith plus Khamis has grown and is now 196cm steal
Port Adel--Big win for them 4 Solid picks did very well
GWS--they smashed it best draft ever for them 5 A grade players
Gold Coast---again there best ever draft Rankine is that good
Losers
Brisbane--Horrible draft
Collingwood--over paid massive
Frem--again shocking draft
North--YUKKKKK 8 for Thomas is shocking Crocker would not make ant other Sub list

North didn't give 8 for Thomas though

 

[DangerSloane]

North didn't give 8 for Thomas though

I think what he's saying is they overpaid in points/other picks, not that they specifically gave pick 8.

However if you want the player you gotta pay up...

 

[McCraeBF]

Defenders take 5 years.

Jeremy McGovern did not play a single AFL game until he was 22.

To me, he was best-on-ground in the Grand Final.

Unless you have Naughton

 

[McCraeBF]

What makes you think Hamill will be such a steal? Not saying you're wrong just dont know much about him.
Agree with pretty much what you've said in your winners.

Losers are hard to say. I think Freo did well to get Sturt and Valente with picks that werent early.

We made North pay through the nose, which I enjoyed.

I watched both Hamill and Sturt play a few times this year..
Sturt is an in between guy no real position..

Hamil will cut them up on a wing in Adelaide his left foot is penetrating and elite-Tex will make sure his in the team trust me..Has a long stride with long arms and poise..
Watch his highlights and well done..

Valente is way too slow for afl--yes Mitchel was slow but a freak as well

 

[bird_man]

I think what he's saying is they overpaid in points/other picks, not that they specifically gave pick 8.

However if you want the player you gotta pay up...

I disagree.

The points system is a bit of a laugh. I don't think many would have given up pick 8 for the late picks North had to use for Thomas, so I see it as a win.

I also think they overpaid for the two Port recruits, but now I know they would have had to use that pick for Thomas anyway, it worked out very well for them.

 

[Crow till I die]

A) I'm a crows supporter so they didn't give me anything.

B) we didn't give them the pick they gave us, we gave them an earlier one. You could maybe argue we traded the pre corrupted pick 19 for next year's maybe pick 19 via GWS, but that's not really anything to do with Gibbs or Carlton.

I know - I meant to write them

 

[Crow till I die]

I watched both Hamill and Sturt play a few times this year..
Sturt is an in between guy no real position..

Hamil will cut them up on a wing in Adelaide his left foot is penetrating and elite-Tex will make sure his in the team trust me..Has a long stride with long arms and poise..
Watch his highlights and well done..

Valente is way too slow for afl--yes Mitchel was slow but a freak as well

Cheers for the comments re Hamill. I suspect though that Adelaide is well stocked for half backs and wings with Laird, Milera, doedee and McPherson coming through - half backs, Smith, Seedsman would be my first choice wings as both have raking long kicks and are both big metres gained types. Maybe Hamill will cut his teeth in the SANFL for a season or two and then make a wing spot his

 

[Bicks]

I watched both Hamill and Sturt play a few times this year..
Sturt is an in between guy no real position..

Hamil will cut them up on a wing in Adelaide his left foot is penetrating and elite-Tex will make sure his in the team trust me..Has a long stride with long arms and poise..
Watch his highlights and well done..

Valente is way too slow for afl--yes Mitchel was slow but a freak as well

WINNERS
Adelaide--Will Hamill will be the steal of this draft
Bulldogs--2 x 250 game players West and Smith plus Khamis has grown and is now 196cm steal
Port Adel--Big win for them 4 Solid picks did very well
GWS--they smashed it best draft ever for them 5 A grade players
Gold Coast---again there best ever draft Rankine is that good
Losers
Brisbane--Horrible draft
Collingwood--over paid massive
Frem--again shocking draft
North--YUKKKKK 8 for Thomas is shocking Crocker would not make ant other Sub list

I watched Rhylee West play live several times this season and was left underwhelmed every time with Jack Bytel the standout for the Cannons early in the year and under ager Daniel Mott the standout later in the season. Agreed Smith is a jet. Khamiss 196cm?, must have had some fertiliser in his boots since I saw him play a month or two ago? No way is he 196cm.

As for your comments re Brisbane IMO you're way, way off the mark Ely Smith a big bodied inside mid that racks up the numbers and an athletic profile I'm sure the Lions will bring out more as he develops, Tom Berry an absolute jet with both an inside/outside/forward game as well as athleticism off the charts, Connor McFadyen a big bodied mid/forward with good speed and agility, Tom Joyce an inside mid who was a standout as an under ager in 2017 but hardly played this season after hip surgery and rounded it out with utility Oakleigh Charger's Captain Noah Answerth who can play forward, back or mid.

 

[DangerSloane]

I disagree.

The points system is a bit of a laugh. I don't think many would have given up pick 8 for the late picks North had to use for Thomas, so I see it as a win.

I also think they overpaid for the two Port recruits, but now I know they would have had to use that pick for Thomas anyway, it worked out very well for them.

No but that's the idea.
That you can bundle up a bunch of rubbish picks that theoretically nobody would take in a trade, to get the man who you have dibs on.

The s**t picks dont equate to pick 8 for a trade, but for total value they do (according to the imperfect points system)

 

[Mitchell54]

I’m on the same wave length as McCraeBF regarding Hamill.

Could be the steal of the draft. Great kicking, game sense, composure, reads the play well and got clean hands.

 

[Big_Birdy]

Pykie will give you the full low down on KM and Tarryn.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/knightmares-2018-afl-draft-almanac.1188131/

There's a start, ranking him behind a bloke who didn't even get drafted ffs.

So what? Wouldn't be the first highly rated pick who shouldn't have ever been drafted in the first place. Not saying he will be but at least 3 or 4 out of the top 20 will fall into that category, usually including a couple in the top 10. Good on KM for being honest if anything, even if he's wrong. Better than the floggery of the likes of David King saying every single pick is a steal when its known a majority of all picks will be serviceable-average players with a few total duds thrown in.

I know his numbers in the state league in Tas were good, but let's be honest, it's not up the the standard of TAC or the WAFL/SANFL colts comps.

How did he go in the champs? Thought I read he only average 12 odd touches a games as a mid (stand to be corrected)?

 

[The Warlord]

WINNERS
Adelaide--Will Hamill will be the steal of this draft
Bulldogs--2 x 250 game players West and Smith plus Khamis has grown and is now 196cm steal
Port Adel--Big win for them 4 Solid picks did very well
GWS--they smashed it best draft ever for them 5 A grade players
Gold Coast---again there best ever draft Rankine is that good
Losers
Brisbane--Horrible draft
Collingwood--over paid massive
Frem--again shocking draft
North--YUKKKKK 8 for Thomas is shocking Crocker would not make ant other Sub list

Where do you reckon Thomas should have gone/what would you have paid?

I know that one senior recruiter rated him as having the highest ceiling of any player in the draft.

 

[Bicks]

So what? Wouldn't be the first highly rated pick who shouldn't have ever been drafted in the first place. Not saying he will be but at least 3 or 4 out of the top 20 will fall into that category, usually including a couple in the top 10. Good on KM for being honest if anything, even if he's wrong. Better than the floggery of the likes of David King saying every single pick is a steal when its known a majority of all picks will be serviceable-average players with a few total duds thrown in.

I know his numbers in the state league in Tas were good, but let's be honest, it's not up the the standard of TAC or the WAFL/SANFL colts comps.

How did he go in the champs? Thought I read he only average 12 odd touches a games as a mid (stand to be corrected)?

Couldn't agree with that at all, playing against grown men is far tougher than playing against your own age, that and the fact the better quality SANFL/WAFL draft prospects play a lot of reserves or even State League, pretty much the same as the NEAFL also.

 

[The Warlord]

So what? Wouldn't be the first highly rated pick who shouldn't have ever been drafted in the first place. Not saying he will be but at least 3 or 4 out of the top 20 will fall into that category, usually including a couple in the top 10. Good on KM for being honest if anything, even if he's wrong. Better than the floggery of the likes of David King saying every single pick is a steal when its known a majority of all picks will be serviceable-average players with a few total duds thrown in.

I know his numbers in the state league in Tas were good, but let's be honest, it's not up the the standard of TAC or the WAFL/SANFL colts comps.

How did he go in the champs? Thought I read he only average 12 odd touches a games as a mid (stand to be corrected)?

Best player in the Academy Series, played injured in the champs, still did alright.

I find it interesting that Adelaide - who are being hailed for their drafting this year - bid on him at 8.

 

[Bicks]

Where do you reckon Thomas should have gone/what would you have paid?

I know that one senior recruiter rated him as having the highest ceiling of any player in the draft.

Pretty fair indication that Adelaide put in a bid with our 1st I would have thought. edited

 

[Big_Birdy]

Couldn't agree with that at all, playing against grown men is far tougher than playing against your own age, that and the fact the better quality SANFL/WAFL draft prospects play a lot of reserves or even State League, pretty much the same as the NEAFL also.

Sorry it was the Academy Series I was thinking of when I wrote he did alright. Certainly agree more stock should be taken into playing against men.

 

[Ants]

I’m talking holistically with regards to Carlton’s four number one draft picks. If you want to dissect the Gibbs pick, I actually believe that Gibbs should’ve been taken as the number one pick that year and it’s a pass for Carlton. I don’t think he has ever been “elite”, although my definition of elite may be more stringent than yours. Development let him down. Not sure if you follow under 18s footy, but he was by far the best player at that level. Would you be happy with the number one pick ending up being the 7th best pick overall? Probably. Anywhere from 1 to 5 is a win in my eyes. 6 to 10 and you’d be reasonably satisfied. If the number one pick isn’t in the top ten from that draft class, it’s a disappointment.

I may be confusing you with other posters in the thread, but didn't you also knock the Swallow and Martin picks? Maybe that was someone else. Just because pre-draft (or mini-draft) those guys were about as highly rated as anyone. Sometimes the recruiters make mistakes. But sometimes a steely eye has to be turned to either the development team or the injury gods. You say development let Gibbs down, but if you think that with any of the other Carlton #1's, is that the recruiter's fault?

And the question on where they rate, is "it depends". In 2001 given the top players were Hodge, Judd, Ball, Bartel, Kelly, Dal Santo, Johnson, Ablett, Mitchell, Swan and Rutten, then yeah, I'd be pretty happy with the 7th best pick overall (hell, Montagna, Bradshaw and Jamar don't even crack the top 10!). In 2003 if you didn't get one of the best 3-4 out of the draft you'd be disappointed the draft was that dire.

I’m not potting the Gibbs pick anyway. As I said, I’m viewing their number one picks more holistically. I’ve identified where I see their number one picks falling (on average) in their draft and that’s outside of the top ten (about 12th overall). Yes, Murphy and Gibbs were successful picks, but they let themselves down with Kreuzer and Weitering. Their track record as a whole has therefore been hit and miss.

Did they really let themselves down with Kruezer? Surely that would mostly be blamed on injuries, which can't really be forecast beforehand. When he's been injury free he's been a top level ruck, contending for AA squads. Its just seldom been the case that he's truly injury free. And Weitering? Lol, he's 21. Way to go before we can confirm any tall from that draft will make it or not, and how they'll be rated.

On the holistic, out of the guys who've had a decent chunk of their careers I don't think too many would complain about Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer on talent. You'd obviously with hindsight like Kruezer to have stayed injury free.

 

[dlb99]

I may be confusing you with other posters in the thread, but didn't you also knock the Swallow and Martin picks? Maybe that was someone else. Just because pre-draft (or mini-draft) those guys were about as highly rated as anyone. Sometimes the recruiters make mistakes. But sometimes a steely eye has to be turned to either the development team or the injury gods. You say development let Gibbs down, but if you think that with any of the other Carlton #1's, is that the recruiter's fault?

And the question on where they rate, is "it depends". In 2001 given the top players were Hodge, Judd, Ball, Bartel, Kelly, Dal Santo, Johnson, Ablett, Mitchell, Swan and Rutten, then yeah, I'd be pretty happy with the 7th best pick overall (hell, Montagna, Bradshaw and Jamar don't even crack the top 10!). In 2003 if you didn't get one of the best 3-4 out of the draft you'd be disappointed the draft was that dire.

Did they really let themselves down with Kruezer? Surely that would mostly be blamed on injuries, which can't really be forecast beforehand. When he's been injury free he's been a top level ruck, contending for AA squads. Its just seldom been the case that he's truly injury free. And Weitering? Lol, he's 21. Way to go before we can confirm any tall from that draft will make it or not, and how they'll be rated.

On the holistic, out of the guys who've had a decent chunk of their careers I don't think too many would complain about Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer on talent. You'd obviously with hindsight like Kruezer to have stayed injury free.

I endorse this post. Well reasoned indeed.

Also, Carlton has fundamentally been a black hole most of this century performance and development wise. Our number 1 selections have not been the issue, most everything else has been.

 

[FyfeToAdelaide]

I endorse this post. Well reasoned indeed.

Also, Carlton has fundamentally been a black hole most of this century performance and development wise. Our number 1 selections have not been the issue, most everything else has been.

A good development team which has nothing to do with the recruiter would have major impact on how good that recruiter is viewed.

 

[the big lebowski]

I think what he's saying is they overpaid in points/other picks, not that they specifically gave pick 8.

However if you want the player you gotta pay up...

It made literally no difference to us in the end. Not only did we also get Taylor but we actually bid on our own father son in Crocker as we had a spare pick at the end of the night.

 

[Shaz2012]

I also think they overpaid for the two Port recruits, but now I know they would have had to use that pick for Thomas anyway, it worked out very well for them.

You sure we would have bid at 8? No doubt we would have bid before we took McHenry if he was still there. I am glad we got Jones over Thomas though. North had zero choice but to match.

 

[bird_man]

You sure we would have bid at 8? No doubt we would have bid before we took McHenry if he was still there. I am glad we got Jones over Thomas though. North had zero choice but to match.

Don't understand this post. You did bid at 8.