Analysis 2019 List, Game Plan and Best 22?

[Wolftone]

Don’t mind which ruck we go with but I’d rather just play 1.

You can't do that with the new Ruck rules. We will get slaughtered now the bigger Ruck can just take the ball out of the Ruck. A smaller player just can't compete. Stronger, mobile 200cm plus Ruck men will just take the ball out of the Ruck and dish off to out riders

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[Wolftone]

Menzel doesn't fit in with us, can kick goals from anywhere and pinpoints targets by foot, not Swans like at all! If Menzel is fit he plays IMO, seems very determined to make this contract count, change of scene will work for him.

I'd like to see Gold Passes thrown away, players get games on what they can do this week, not what they've done previous seasons. I've rewatched some games from this year, COR was mighty impressive, just has to be a starter if he carries his senior game form into 2019. Move Mills to the midfield, Jones too, much better he breaks away and carries from the centre square rather than FB/HB.

I agree totally. I got really angry last season that Jack and Hannaberry got a free pass when other players were playing so miluch better. Smooch too was very ordinary in patches but still got a game. I must admit he was better last season than in 2017 where he was woeful for most of the season. In patched Kennedy was terrible and should have been rested.

But our coaches give a free pass to every senior player who is generally a walk up starter. They should always pick. On form not reputation. I don't care how many runs these blokes have on the board, they still need to earn their place. This walk up start s**t is why we are a middling club not a powerhouse. Hawks even dropped Hodge, Birchell, Frawley etc. We need that same hard nosed attitude

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[LukeParkerno1]

You can't do that with the new Ruck rules. We will get slaughtered now the bigger Ruck can just take the ball out of the Ruck. A smaller player just can't compete. Stronger, mobile 200cm plus Ruck men will just take the ball out of the Ruck and dish off to out riders

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Then play our biggest ruck which is probably Naismith. Don’t want two plodding rucks really.

 

[Wolftone]

And that my friend is why we struggle to kick 70 points a game. We need goalkickers, Menzel kicks goals. He plays, I'd rather him in the side than another ruck who contributes nothing around the ground. Yeah Menzel's defence isn't elite but his other things make up for it. You have to score goals to win games of football you know.

You are still ignoring the new rule. The other thing is Sinclair is a better Forward/Ruck than Ruck. He has kicked 6 goals in a game and I think could kick many bags if we play Naismith first Ruck and Sinclair forward. Bud, Reid and Sinclair could make a very damaging tall forward line. There are not too many players who are going to outmark both Reid and Sinkas if they both play to potential. Add Menzel and the Great Bud and it is not only dangerous it is incredibly potent.

Remember not all the talls will be on the park at once and we have plenty of crumbers. Using a totally small forward-line did not work for us last season because our game plan is bomb and hope.

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[caesar88]

So you are saying when the Swans attack then we win? Then why in hell do we attack so little?

Not always but there is plenty of evidence to suggest that we’re capable of playing more attacking footy.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Not always but there is plenty of evidence to suggest that we’re capable of playing more attacking footy.

Yep and that’s why I’m hard on the coach it’s not as if we can’t play attacking footy

 

[Wolftone]

You also need to beable to get the ball back once you lose it in order to have the ball in your half most the time, thus every player must have a defensive aspect to their game. It’s a chicken and egg situation, can’t have one without the other.

If you win the clearances you spend more time in your forward half than in the back half. In saying that you must have forward pressure. But we spend far too much time in our back half due to losing the clearances. We are starting to have days where we concede real scores. This is because the pressure on the backline has become intense. It is far too much for far too long and as brave as our backs and mids are we can't continue to do this because the opposition have now started to design tactics that score from out long stints stuck in the back half. We need to win clearances or we will slip further every year until we become cellar dwellers.

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[zyzzbruh]

Sorry but you must either be blind or blinkered. Clarkson has changed his game plan multiple times. That is why he won 4 premierships. Hardwick changed the Richmond game plan completely. In 2016 he was playing three talls in the forward-line in 2017 he had one. He played two rucks in 2016 in 2917 one. His hunt and kill game plan didn't eventuate until 2017. His game plan was totally different to the one that had them getting slaughtered in 2016.

Mind boggling that you could not see this

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Bs Clarkson has changed nothing. Hawthorn play the exact same as they have since 2012.
Richmond’s game plan has never changed, their personnel did..if your second ruckman/forward retires due to injury and you acquire small fleet footed forwards in castagna, Rioli, Bolton and butler no s**t the way your team plays is going to change regardless of gameplan.

If we’re going off your simplistic logic then horse has significantly changed our gameplan multiple times. He went from playing 2 key forwards in Reid and Franklin, to just franklin. He went from playing two rucks to just one in Sinclair. He put in an extra small forward in ronke..

Fact of the matter is gameplan means s**t all if the players struggle to pull it off. Our skills and ball handling was putrid this season. We struggled to put 2 kicks together and every handball hit the floor. It’s a personnel issue, and that can change very quickly as we have seen with Richmond, wb, and west coast

 

[RUNVS]

If you win the clearances you spend more time in your forward half than in the back half. In saying that you must have forward pressure. But we spend far too much time in our back half due to losing the clearances. We are starting to have days where we concede real scores. This is because the pressure on the backline has become intense. It is far too much for far too long and as brave as our backs and mids are we can't continue to do this because the opposition have now started to design tactics that score from out long stints stuck in the back half. We need to win clearances or we will slip further every year until we become cellar dwellers.

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Agreed. Here are our inside 50's for 2018

Round 1 vs West Coast - 52 to 60
Round 2 vs Port Adelaide - 52 to 52
Round 3 vs GWS - 50 to 54
Round 4 vs Bulldogs - 42 to 60
Round 5 vs Adelaide - 64 to 48
Round 6 vs Geelong - 52 to 52
Round 7 vs North Melbourne - 58 to 48
Round 8 vs Hawthorn - 39 to 63
Round 9 vs Fremantle - 60 to 50
Round 10 vs Brisbane - 51 to 56
Round 11 vs Carlton - 62 to 41
Round 12 vs St Kilda - 49 to 52
Round 13 vs West Coast - 52 to 63
Round 15 vs Richmond - 43 to 61
Round 16 vs Geelong - 46 to 59
Round 17 vs North Melbourne - 52 to 51
Round 18 vs Gold Coast - 48 to 61
Round 19 vs Essendon - 72 to 39
Round 20 vs Collingwood - 50 to 52
Round 21 vs Melbourne - 43 to 60
Round 22 vs GWS - 55 to 49
Round 23 vs Hawthorn - 53 to 50
Elimination Final vs GWS - 38 to 63

So that means
7 wins
14 losses
2 draws


I mean how can the defence possibly cope when the ball is constantly streaming into defence, and the midfield is just letting it happen. I mean even St Kilda's midfield outplayed ours, as did Gold Coast's.

 

[RUNVS]

and as for clearances in 2018

Round 1 vs West Coast - 38 to 47
Round 2 vs Port Adelaide - 46 to 52
Round 3 vs GWS - 33 to 47
Round 4 vs Bulldogs - 26 to 36
Round 5 vs Adelaide - 34 to 40
Round 6 vs Geelong - 33 to 51
Round 7 vs North Melbourne - 31 to 41
Round 8 vs Hawthorn - 29 to 40
Round 9 vs Fremantle - 25 to 31
Round 10 vs Brisbane - 40 to 52
Round 11 vs Carlton - 33 to 38
Round 12 vs St Kilda - 27 to 39
Round 13 vs West Coast - 24 to 36
Round 15 vs Richmond - 31 to 39
Round 16 vs Geelong - 35 to 37
Round 17 vs North Melbourne - 33 to 36
Round 18 vs Gold Coast - 43 to 44
Round 19 vs Essendon - 34 to 35
Round 20 vs Collingwood - 35 to 36
Round 21 vs Melbourne - 33 to 33
Round 22 vs GWS - 35 to 41
Round 23 vs Hawthorn - 36 to 45
Elimination Final vs GWS - 31 to 38

So that is
9 wins
13 losses
1 draw

Which when you compare to the clearances shows that even when we are winning clearances (sometimes) they are not translating to inside 50's.

I mean look at round 8 vs Hawthorn. We won the clearances 29 to 40, and yet lost the inside 50 count 39 to 63.

It shows (I think) that our clerances are not fast, and they do not really give the Swans an advantage since most of our clearances are most likely a handball to another player who is also under pressure instead of a kick out of the pack to a teammate.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

I hope he can change Mick. But he hasn't given a great deal of evidence of change in the past. He did from mid 2011 when he introduced slingshot but from then on it has all been pretty predictable. Very lucky to have some really great players to execute a old game plan. But of course that has not held up in the games that really count.

I hope Horse can change. He seems like a nice fella and his parents are lovely. I met them some years ago outside a pub on the way to the game. Lovely, friendly people. I hope he has what it takes to take the criticism, and I'm sure there was plenty from players and the footy department, and look at a new way of working and game plan.

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Just an FYI...Mrs Longmire kicked the horse bucket in 2012.

 

[RUNVS]

“We’re not really talking about positions at the moment,” Mills told 3AW radio show Sportsday.

“It’s more about fundamentals and the basics of football at this time of year. Things might change and you never know – I could be in the midfield or I could be at half-back again. It will all come down to team dynamics.

“I’d like to end up in the midfield one day. Whether that’s in 2019 or not, I’ll just be happy to be out on the park and winning games. That’s the most important thing.”

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2018-11-29/mills-openminded-ahead-of-comeback-campaign

Longmire you better play Mills in the midfield.

 

[scaryness]

This is how our list stands in terms of versatility, positions ans coverage across the ground


Primarily defender:
Aliir
Grundy
Lloyd
Maibaum
McVeigh
Melican
O'Riordan
Rampe
Reynolds
Smith
Stoddart
Thurlow
Tucker

Rotational defender:
Clarke
Florent
Jones
Ling
Mills
Reid

Emergency defender:
Cunningham
Fox
Heeney

==============
Primarily midfielder:
Bell
Clarke
Cunningham
Dawson
Florent
Heeney
Hewett
Jones
Kennedy
Ling
McInerney
Mills
Parker
Rowbottom

Rotational midfielder:
Blakey
Fox
Hayward
Jack
Lloyd
McVeigh
Papley
Stoddart

Emergency midfielder:
Franklin
Menzel
Rampe
Ronke
Rose
Thurlow

=============
Primarily forward:
Blakey
Franklin
Hayward
Jack
McCartin
Menzel
Papley
Pink
Reid
Ronke
Rose
Wicks

Rotational forward:
Amartey
Cameron
Cunningham
Dawson
Florent
Heeney
Hewett
Parker
Sinclair

Emergency forward:
Aliir
Grundy
Kennedy
McVeigh
Naismith

============
Primarily ruckman:
Amartey
Cameron
Naismith
Sinclair

Rotational ruckman:
-

Emergency ruckman:
Aliir
Reid

Absurd ruckman:
Dawson
Parker

 

[Wolftone]

Bs Clarkson has changed nothing. Hawthorn play the exact same as they have since 2012.
Richmond’s game plan has never changed, their personnel did..if your second ruckman/forward retires due to injury and you acquire small fleet footed forwards in castagna, Rioli, Bolton and butler no s**t the way your team plays is going to change regardless of gameplan.

If we’re going off your simplistic logic then horse has significantly changed our gameplan multiple times. He went from playing 2 key forwards in Reid and Franklin, to just franklin. He went from playing two rucks to just one in Sinclair. He put in an extra small forward in ronke..

Fact of the matter is gameplan means s**t all if the players struggle to pull it off. Our skills and ball handling was putrid this season. We struggled to put 2 kicks together and every handball hit the floor. It’s a personnel issue, and that can change very quickly as we have seen with Richmond, wb, and west coast

I am flabbergasted you can't see the wood for the trees. If your personnel change don't you think you must change your game plan. So Richmond just bombed to the forwards the same as in 2016? Crap. They passed the ball in and long kicked to only one forward, Jack, and one mid (Dusty). They kicked to space on most other occasions not to a contest. This was to let the small forwards run ilonto the ball. In 2016 they kkdid not do that. They changed their game plan to suit their personnel.

The same goes for Hawks. The changes might only be small but they count. Clarkson had several game changing tactics and different game structures for different sides. That was why he was so clever. To say his game plan did not change from 2004-2918 is just being either naive or plain silly.

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[Wolftone]

Bs Clarkson has changed nothing. Hawthorn play the exact same as they have since 2012.
Richmond’s game plan has never changed, their personnel did..if your second ruckman/forward retires due to injury and you acquire small fleet footed forwards in castagna, Rioli, Bolton and butler no s**t the way your team plays is going to change regardless of gameplan.

If we’re going off your simplistic logic then horse has significantly changed our gameplan multiple times. He went from playing 2 key forwards in Reid and Franklin, to just franklin. He went from playing two rucks to just one in Sinclair. He put in an extra small forward in ronke..

Fact of the matter is gameplan means s**t all if the players struggle to pull it off. Our skills and ball handling was putrid this season. We struggled to put 2 kicks together and every handball hit the floor. It’s a personnel issue, and that can change very quickly as we have seen with Richmond, wb, and west coast

Game plan, tactics mean a lot. They are the structure your group relies upon to win, take control and execute. Yes our disposal was putrid at times, many times because the opposition knew what we were going to do and set up to counter, mainly because players had either few options or players were not where they should be to transition.

Uf players are second guessing all that time and don't have confidence in the game plan the start to hesitate. Our players fumbled
1) because we do very little skills work at training compared to other sides
2) because we were always under pressure because the opposition was always a move ahead of us.

We won a lot of close games last season. There were 8 games that could have gone either way. Several that were won off Lance's boot due to last quarter heroics. We lost to teams who should never have beaten us but they simply covered our outdated game plan and smothered it. Suns, Essendon and when GWS finally got their personnel back they slaughtered us.

If you can't see that only scoring 30 points in a final is not a problem then... Our game plan is outdated and THE PLAYERS AND FOOTY DEPT HEAD HAVE TOLD LONGMIRE. I'm highlighting this because you seem to have overlooked this bit when it was in the news. When the players start telling a coach they do not have confidence in the game plan it is time for a change and the players told Longmire that was the case. You could see it on the field. Second guessing, at certain times in a game there will be lack of intensity, players looked jaded, lack of scoring. These are classic signs a game plan is cooked and the players have list interest.

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[Wolftone]

Agreed. Here are our inside 50's for 2018

Round 1 vs West Coast - 52 to 60
Round 2 vs Port Adelaide - 52 to 52
Round 3 vs GWS - 50 to 54
Round 4 vs Bulldogs - 42 to 60
Round 5 vs Adelaide - 64 to 48
Round 6 vs Geelong - 52 to 52
Round 7 vs North Melbourne - 58 to 48
Round 8 vs Hawthorn - 39 to 63
Round 9 vs Fremantle - 60 to 50
Round 10 vs Brisbane - 51 to 56
Round 11 vs Carlton - 62 to 41
Round 12 vs St Kilda - 49 to 52
Round 13 vs West Coast - 52 to 63
Round 15 vs Richmond - 43 to 61
Round 16 vs Geelong - 46 to 59
Round 17 vs North Melbourne - 52 to 51
Round 18 vs Gold Coast - 48 to 61
Round 19 vs Essendon - 72 to 39
Round 20 vs Collingwood - 50 to 52
Round 21 vs Melbourne - 43 to 60
Round 22 vs GWS - 55 to 49
Round 23 vs Hawthorn - 53 to 50
Elimination Final vs GWS - 38 to 63

So that means
7 wins
14 losses
2 draws


I mean how can the defence possibly cope when the ball is constantly streaming into defence, and the midfield is just letting it happen. I mean even St Kilda's midfield outplayed ours, as did Gold Coast's.

There is another stat that I think means more than simple entries. It is time spent in forward half. We spent a lot of time I. Our back half last season. The more time you spend on defence the more chance of the opposition scoring. We are lucky we have so much talent and top notch defenders. A less talented bunch, Carlton, Suns, Saints, would have and did let lots more through.

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[Wolftone]

and as for clearances in 2018

Round 1 vs West Coast - 38 to 47
Round 2 vs Port Adelaide - 46 to 52
Round 3 vs GWS - 33 to 47
Round 4 vs Bulldogs - 26 to 36
Round 5 vs Adelaide - 34 to 40
Round 6 vs Geelong - 33 to 51
Round 7 vs North Melbourne - 31 to 41
Round 8 vs Hawthorn - 29 to 40
Round 9 vs Fremantle - 25 to 31
Round 10 vs Brisbane - 40 to 52
Round 11 vs Carlton - 33 to 38
Round 12 vs St Kilda - 27 to 39
Round 13 vs West Coast - 24 to 36
Round 15 vs Richmond - 31 to 39
Round 16 vs Geelong - 35 to 37
Round 17 vs North Melbourne - 33 to 36
Round 18 vs Gold Coast - 43 to 44
Round 19 vs Essendon - 34 to 35
Round 20 vs Collingwood - 35 to 36
Round 21 vs Melbourne - 33 to 33
Round 22 vs GWS - 35 to 41
Round 23 vs Hawthorn - 36 to 45
Elimination Final vs GWS - 31 to 38

So that is
9 wins
13 losses
1 draw

Which when you compare to the clearances shows that even when we are winning clearances (sometimes) they are not translating to inside 50's.

I mean look at round 8 vs Hawthorn. We won the clearances 29 to 40, and yet lost the inside 50 count 39 to 63.

It shows (I think) that our clerances are not fast, and they do not really give the Swans an advantage since most of our clearances are most likely a handball to another player who is also under pressure instead of a kick out of the pack to a teammate.

If Ronke had not had a, say out we would have and by rights should have been flogged. We were lucky

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[Wolftone]

and as for clearances in 2018

Round 1 vs West Coast - 38 to 47
Round 2 vs Port Adelaide - 46 to 52
Round 3 vs GWS - 33 to 47
Round 4 vs Bulldogs - 26 to 36
Round 5 vs Adelaide - 34 to 40
Round 6 vs Geelong - 33 to 51
Round 7 vs North Melbourne - 31 to 41
Round 8 vs Hawthorn - 29 to 40
Round 9 vs Fremantle - 25 to 31
Round 10 vs Brisbane - 40 to 52
Round 11 vs Carlton - 33 to 38
Round 12 vs St Kilda - 27 to 39
Round 13 vs West Coast - 24 to 36
Round 15 vs Richmond - 31 to 39
Round 16 vs Geelong - 35 to 37
Round 17 vs North Melbourne - 33 to 36
Round 18 vs Gold Coast - 43 to 44
Round 19 vs Essendon - 34 to 35
Round 20 vs Collingwood - 35 to 36
Round 21 vs Melbourne - 33 to 33
Round 22 vs GWS - 35 to 41
Round 23 vs Hawthorn - 36 to 45
Elimination Final vs GWS - 31 to 38

So that is
9 wins
13 losses
1 draw

Which when you compare to the clearances shows that even when we are winning clearances (sometimes) they are not translating to inside 50's.

I mean look at round 8 vs Hawthorn. We won the clearances 29 to 40, and yet lost the inside 50 count 39 to 63.

It shows (I think) that our clerances are not fast, and they do not really give the Swans an advantage since most of our clearances are most likely a handball to another player who is also under pressure instead of a kick out of the pack to a teammate.

When we do kick it is a long bomb to nobody in particular

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[Wolftone]

Just an FYI...Mrs Longmire kicked the horse bucket in 2012.

Oh dear. She was a lovely lady. They seemed a very nice family. Very friendly people.

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[RUNVS]

There is another stat that I think means more than simple entries. It is time spent in forward half. We spent a lot of time I. Our back half last season. The more time you spend on defence the more chance of the opposition scoring. We are lucky we have so much talent and top notch defenders. A less talented bunch, Carlton, Suns, Saints, would have and did let lots more through.

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I would love to find the stat of time spent in forward half as I think it would be really interesting. Do you know where it can be found?

 

[The Gong]

I would love to find the stat of time spent in forward half as I think it would be really interesting. Do you know where it can be found?

I can't find it on any of the public available stats sites. I've seen the official AFL site refer to it before so it must be something Champion Data tracks. The closest I can get is combining forward 50 entries with rebound 50s.

 

[The Gong]

If Ronke had not had a, say out we would have and by rights should have been flogged. We were lucky

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I don't buy that. Ronke had a great game but it takes a team effort to get a win. Ronke had some great individual efforts but he can only achieve those off the back of his teammate's hard work. Sure he might have been the difference between a win and a loss but not a win and a flogging.

You could even argue the backline was the real hero that day because the mids weren't doing them any favours giving up that many inside 50s against.

 

[sataris]

I suggest everyone here play Football manager for a bit and see how you go with the man-management side of things.

And the tactical as well,

Trying to play a possession based game when your players aren't up to it is going to bite you in the bum.

 

[Wolftone]

I would love to find the stat of time spent in forward half as I think it would be really interesting. Do you know where it can be found?

Not really. Did find a whole lot of that stuff for a while but Champion Data tightened their security. Don't know how the site I accessed got it but no more


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[Wolftone]

I don't buy that. Ronke had a great game but it takes a team effort to get a win. Ronke had some great individual efforts but he can only achieve those off the back of his teammate's hard work. Sure he might have been the difference between a win and a loss but not a win and a flogging.

You could even argue the backline was the real hero that day because the mids weren't doing them any favours giving up that many inside 50s against.

I'll agree. The backs were great but the mids were a disaster. So we're our other forwards that day. We spent over 70% in our back half that day and Hawks still couldn't pilut us away. Same in the middle two quarters of the Cats game

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