List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread II

[Arr0w]

That may yet be an example of recruiters bias, which I alluded to.

Just on your example though; I haven't seen Finbar play and as you've previously suggested.....A height alone shouldn't determine the type,

I don't know your thoughts on Walsh other than I think you rated Smith higher, but that doesn't really respond to that stated.
Who were the best talents and if the CFC were selecting for talent alone, why didn't we take those players?

We all see things differently don't we?

 

[HARKER]

We all see things differently don't we?

Yeah! Now you're talking.

It doesn't matter as there are clearly many factors that come into recruiters rankings, but it's just simply not on talent alone.
Character....Scope to develop....Football IQ....Needs.....just for starters, and then of course, bias.

 

[murphster]

The latest article on AFL website says we had Stocker number 6 on our draft list.

Very interesting.. Walsh, Rankine, Luko, M. King, B.King.. Stocker?

Saw that, that is surprising but also maybe heartening?

 

[murphster]

One may influence the other though and by my observation, it clearly does and has done for some time.
If we didn't rate MKing as a top 6 talent, why exactly would have that come about?

I know what I see and if others see it differently then fine.
It's also clear to me given some discussion, that some recruiters have a bias towards certain types. It happens.

Just going on my thoughts with King twins, while they did well in tac footy and both kicked bags those bags where kicked against much smaller lighter opponents than themselves at 200+ cm tall plus arms. Against AFL defenders it is a totally different proposition not to mention tac rules are different re numbers in defence. Max coming off an ACL is no small injury we have seen how long it has taken Harry with small injuries, that compared to Max with an ACL. Might be a long haul before we start to see results from Max or Ben so can you rate them inside top 6, not imo.

 

[murphster]

Recruiters could have bias, I guess, all of us prefer certain players over others, no matter what the outputs shows. We can all manipulate situations, but no matter what we think, it is clear SOS has and will continue draft best available (how he rates a player) and trade for needs. A strategy, with which I strongly agree

I actually think a lot of SOS recruiting has been based on charachter and disposal by foot.

 

[La Dispute]

I would have taken Rozee or Smith if I was St Kilda. They need X-factor and midfielders with nous more than they need a tall forward, as good as King is. Doesn’t bode well for McCartin.

That being I would have taken M. King at 3 if I were Gold Coast.

 

[The Grover]

Interesting article on the draft, has the blues ranking Stocker at 6.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-29/how-2018s-biggest-draft-shock-almost-didnt-happen

Very interesting in that if Port don't take Duursma, then Adelaide pounce on him & no trade with us.

 

[HBF]

I would have taken Rozee or Smith if I was St Kilda. They need X-factor and midfielders with nous more than they need a tall forward, as good as King is. Doesn’t bode well for McCartin.

That being I would have taken M. King at 3 if I were Gold Coast.

My thoughts exactly when the Saints called his name out last week.
With Bruce, Membrey and McCartin, not they're all not going to fit into the same forward line.
Not that we needed it, but even more proof they should have taken Petracca.

 

[Jimmae]

Dragging it over here Jim

Given some of the criticism of what players SOS has selected, I have used actual selection for all picks traded out. I agree with you on Williams, but I had others ahead of Joyce. Valente, Berry, Bytel, Taylor, Kennerley, Turner, Sparrow

I would have thought Joyce would fit our midfield look a bit better given he's more of an all-action midfielder than someone like Bytel.

I would have taken Rozee or Smith if I was St Kilda. They need X-factor and midfielders with nous more than they need a tall forward, as good as King is. Doesn’t bode well for McCartin.

That being I would have taken M. King at 3 if I were Gold Coast.

Bruce, McCartin and daylight... those are their key forward stocks. Membrey and Battle are medium forwards.

 

[F_therest]

Just going on my thoughts with King twins, while they did well in tac footy and both kicked bags those bags where kicked against much smaller lighter opponents than themselves at 200+ cm tall plus arms. Against AFL defenders it is a totally different proposition not to mention tac rules are different re numbers in defence. Max coming off an ACL is no small injury we have seen how long it has taken Harry with small injuries, that compared to Max with an ACL. Might be a long haul before we start to see results from Max or Ben so can you rate them inside top 6, not imo.

200cm+ and with their agility is still going to be hard to beat at AFL level...how many defenders have those attributes?

Similar attributes to Ben Brown who was a difficult match up for all teams this year.
Yeah they won't get as much space and won't kick big bags of 8, that rarely happens in AFL today, but they still have potential to be gun key forwards.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Yeah! Now you're talking.

It doesn't matter as there are clearly many factors that come into recruiters rankings, but it's just simply not on talent alone.
Character....Scope to develop....Football IQ....Needs.....just for starters, and then of course, bias.

I wonder how much group think starts to creep in to a recruiting team. I know it’s prevalent enough amongst even top levels of management that many corporations are vigilant for its appearance.

 

[F_therest]

You already know my thoughts on Walsh, but that matters little now.

I guess once you assess what SOS has completed this year, breaking down the trades and drafting, the strategy never changes.

Example of this, is Finbar. With a full book of KPF and 3rd tall forwards, McKay, Charlie, Kerr McGovern, TDK (ruck/forward), JSOS, Levi (only a backup now), SOS drafted another KPF. Surely he would have been rated as best available, rather than a need

Finbar is 190cm and apparently shot up 10cm in the last year or so.
Was described as someone who puts on fierce tackling pressure, so i think he's more a medium forward type player, not a KPF.

 

[HARKER]

I wonder how much group think starts to creep in to a recruiting team. I know it’s prevalent enough amongst even top levels of management that many corporations are vigilant for its appearance.

Of course it does, just as it can on this forum.
Sometimes it's easier just nodding ones head instead of confronting a situation you don't agree with, with vigour.

I can imagine some recruiters/scouts/people becoming influenced by the bigger, louder and more popular voice.
I don't know how all the gears work under the SOS regime, but you have to say that most net results have been quite good so far.

Trade periods have been at least an A and recruiting a little way but not too far behind, although it is hard to prove the true value at this early stage.

 

[dlb99]

The latest article on AFL website says we had Stocker number 6 on our draft list.

Very interesting.. Walsh, Rankine, Luko, M. King, B.King.. Stocker?

My guess:

[1] Walsh
[2] Rankine
[3] Lukosius
[4] M. King
[5] Rozee
[6] Stocker

Big call by our recruiting team. They appear to have rated Stocker above B. Smith and possibly Caldwell as well.

 

[Blutopia]

Finbar is 190cm and apparently shot up 10cm in the last year or so.
Was described as someone who puts on fierce tackling pressure, so i think he's more a medium forward type player, not a KPF.

He looked only a couple of cm’s shorter than BSOS in their interview standing next to each other and he is listed at 196. Maybe Finbar was 184 at start of year? Usually their listed heights are taken in pre season of tac cup.

 

[Blutopia]

My guess:

[1] Walsh
[2] Rankine
[3] Lukosius
[4] M. King
[5] Rozee
[6] Stocker

Big call by our recruiting team. They appear to have rated Stocker above B. Smith and possibly Caldwell as well.

I have him ahead of Smith, especially on character but Caldwell was second best mid in draft I think if he gets body right

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

My guess:

[1] Walsh
[2] Rankine
[3] Lukosius
[4] M. King
[5] Rozee
[6] Stocker

Big call by our recruiting team. They appear to have rated Stocker above B. Smith and possibly Caldwell as well.

My guess.... not that it’s worth anything haha.

1) Walsh
2) Rankine
3) Lukosius
4) Blakey
5) Caldwell
6) Stocker

 

[Blutopia]

My guess.... not that it’s worth anything haha.

1) Walsh
2) Rankine
3) Lukosius
4) Blakey
5) Caldwell
6) Stocker

You would be pretty close if not spot on

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Yeah! Now you're talking.

It doesn't matter as there are clearly many factors that come into recruiters rankings, but it's just simply not on talent alone.
Character....Scope to develop....Football IQ....Needs.....just for starters, and then of course, bias.

He has a lot of data to process without forming an opinion.

For what he does, he's on a hiding to nothing.

Respect.

 

[murphster]

200cm+ and with their agility is still going to be hard to beat at AFL level...how many defenders have those attributes?

Similar attributes to Ben Brown who was a difficult match up for all teams this year.
Yeah they won't get as much space and won't kick big bags of 8, that rarely happens in AFL today, but they still have potential to be gun key forwards.

Never said they didn’t my argument regarding Max was with an ACL he will take a lot of time to realise potential hence the comparison with McKay who also had injuries early and has taken a while. Based on that I wouldn’t rate him in my top 6. And I think people are over rating there TAC performances.

 

[djw1952]

That may yet be an example of recruiters bias, which I alluded to.

Just on your example though; I haven't seen Finbar play and as you've previously suggested.....Height alone shouldn't determine the type.
He's a total mystery to me other than for what I have read and as for BSilvagni....come on....we know why.

I don't know your thoughts on Walsh other than I think you rated Smith higher, but that doesn't really respond to that stated.
Who were the best talents and if the CFC were selecting for talent alone, why didn't we take those players?

Time will tell on BSOS, but I watched him play against S.A. in the final of the NAB under 18 championships and he has got a good set of mitts and is a great kick, as well as being mobile for his size.........so if you were alluding to the fact that he only got picked because he is a Silvagni I will disagree with you on that...........but he will need time in the N.B. as a guy his size usually would take longer than a mid, and obviously he is not going to play straight away like the very talented Lukosius who has been playing against men for over a season...........as I said, time will tell on BSOS

 

[Blubagger71]

Actually was impressed with his wiry build at training hope he turns into a Lappin or Simmo that just keep going and going with minimal injuries, has really good pace for height might be a steal and turn into a gun HF like Gunston.

Gunston. Good comparison. That’d be nice!

 

[dlb99]

I have him ahead of Smith, especially on character but Caldwell was second best mid in draft I think if he gets body right

I like Caldwell a lot as well.

GWS have historically have been poor at injury management and prevention.

If we get Setterfield right I wonder if Caldwell will want to come here in a couple years?

 

[Nori]

Finbar is 190cm and apparently shot up 10cm in the last year or so.
Was described as someone who puts on fierce tackling pressure, so i think he's more a medium forward type player, not a KPF.

Yes, I think you’re right and we actually don’t have an abundance of mid sized fwds.

Anyway Finbar would be a good 3 years off getting a regular game even if he did come on strong.

 

[Arr0w]

Finbar is 190cm and apparently shot up 10cm in the last year or so.
Was described as someone who puts on fierce tackling pressure, so i think he's more a medium forward type player, not a KPF.

Don't be surprised, if he keeps growing