Recommitted Tim Kelly [requested a trade to West Coast]

[Pulsedriver]

We've already shown your whole schtick is based on the fact that Wells actually listened to offers and didn't dismiss the Eagles attempts outright.

At least you've come to somewhat understand the bad faith in which Wells behaved.

You're taking the fact that the Eagles didn't end up with Sydney's pick 13 as proof that Wells stating pick 13 is not good enough. Even if this massive leap is correct - according to you he already made it clear he wanted a top 10 pick.

The links with the quotes of Wells himself speaking as to valuing Kelly as top 10 and perhaps more, as well as Wells saying WC's offer was too far apart makes my case. You're in denial, I get it.

No bad faith, whatsoever.

Whatever keeps you warm...

 

[Nickoo]

At least you've come to somewhat understand the bad faith in which Wells behaved.



The links with the quotes of Wells himself speaking as to valuing Kelly as top 10 and perhaps more, as well as Wells saying WC's offer was too far apart makes my case. You're in denial, I get it.



Whatever keeps you warm...

Because its true.

The only bad faith is telling a player all year we’ll pick you up then not doing anything to affect that outcome. Actually telling the player during the draft they’d pick him and then low and behold they use their picks on others. My guess is they never rated him and still don’t.



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[RoversFC]

In 2019 he is out of contract so we lose the ability to hold him. That is it. WC still don't have the ability to just take him, that has not changed. We will ask for a pick around the 8 - 13 range. If you have that pick that's what it'll be. If you try to low ball and offer say your R2 pick, we will take that as bad faith and deal only with Freo or he will likely go to the draft to freo.

I agree with everything you have said, but this is just one thing I don’t understand from the cats fans. And I don’t mean that as a stab, but I just dont get the line of thinking. Let’s say Rankine in a few years wants to go home and asks for a trade to Adelaide. Adelaide can’t do the deal and Port can make a deal Suns are happy wth. His manager come out and say we would rather have a harder time in Queensland for a year, than go to Port and next year will explore another way of getting to Adelaide. After that year has passed, why would Port be apart of the discussion. They’ve clearly been pushed away by Rankine and his manager, has said he would rather play away from home and than play at home with them. Why would Port have a black spot in there 22, someone who doesn’t want to be there. Why would they draft him over another top talent who doesn’t want to be there?

Replace Rankine the any Victorian and swap the teams around and you can have the same problem at your club. There are 1000s of footballer players i his country, Dockers aren’t gonna waste a spot on their list for someon who doesn’t want to be there.

Dockers won’t be getting Kelly and I’ll bet my life on it.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Because its true.

The only bad faith is telling a player all year we’ll pick you up then not doing anything to affect that outcome. Actually telling the player during the draft they’d pick him and then low and behold they use their picks on others. My guess is they never rated him and still don’t.



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Troll troll troll.

“West Coast told Kelly all year they’d pick him up.”

“West Coast told Kelly they’d draft him.”

No actual basis in fact for either statement. Don’t let that stop you though. Tell us again how West Coast let him down four years ago by not drafting him when he was a faceless WAFL player.

 

[strauchnyy]

I agree with everything you have said, but this is just one thing I don’t understand from the cats fans. And I don’t mean that as a stab, but I just dont get the line of thinking. Let’s say Rankine in a few years wants to go home and asks for a trade to Adelaide. Adelaide can’t do the deal and Port can make a deal Suns are happy wth. His manager come out and say we would rather have a harder time in Queensland for a year, than go to Port and next year will explore another way of getting to Adelaide. After that year has passed, why would Port be apart of the discussion. They’ve clearly been pushed away by Rankine and his manager, has said he would rather play away from home and than play at home with them. Why would Port have a black spot in there 22, someone who doesn’t want to be there. Why would they draft him over another top talent who doesn’t want to be there?

Replace Rankine the any Victorian and swap the teams around and you can have the same problem at your club. There are 1000s of footballer players i his country, Dockers aren’t gonna waste a spot on their list for someon who doesn’t want to be there.

Dockers won’t be getting Kelly and I’ll bet my life on it.

Can see where you're coming from. Fair enough. But Freo still tried to get him on the last day after Kelly's manager said he wasn't interested. They said something like "we won't die trying" from memory. So whilst if I was Freo I'd not look to get him, Freo appear to not be swayed by that.

The secondary reason is Kelly has stated he wants to go home for family reasons. If he means this, it means Freo or WC from Geelong's perspective. If he comes out and says I want to play for west coast, it's got nothing to do with family/home then it makes more sense.

The last reason is, if for some unlikely reason Geelong & WC don't agree and he goes to the draft, it appears Freo will still pick him up. They appear based on their actions this year that they are not swayed but Kelly not wanting to go there and they will probably have a preseason pick before you. Will they do it? Maybe not. Just basing it on how Freo behaved in this year's trade period.

End of the day, it'll be a trade to WC anyway I believe.

 

[Alphonse_]

I am trying not to take fights in this crapfight, but honestly am bemused by claims by Geelong fans saying WCE have stringed Kelly along and is worth a top 5 pick.

Both claims are way off the mark, assuming Kelly leaves at the end of next season, they will have to accept two picls in the 20s in a trade, or face losing him for nothing.

Freo are no longer the lambs of the trade table either, they won't give up their first rounder in 2019 either for TK.

I just can't see this ending well for Geelong fans tbh.

 

[Peel67skin]

I am trying not to take fights in this crapfight, but honestly am bemused by claims by Geelong fans saying WCE have stringed Kelly along and is worth a top 5 pick.

Both claims are way off the mark, assuming Kelly leaves at the end of next season, they will have to accept two picls in the 20s in a trade, or face losing him for nothing.

Freo are no longer the lambs of the trade table either, they won't give up their first rounder in 2019 either for TK.

I just can't see this ending well for Geelong fans tbh.

Maybe you are not trying hard enough , keeping quiet is the best solution , being honest is not . Both team fail to agree to term so neither are at fault .

 

[Obeanie1]

Read today how Geelong rang five times to speak with Clark in the days leading up to the draft to reconfirm he was ok to relocate away from WA.

Wanted to be sure he didn't have a wife with kids, girlfriend expecting twins in the new year. Stuff like that!!

Great to see the Geelong recruiting team are getting their sh!t together this time round.

 

[Pulsedriver]

But Freo still tried to get him on the last day after Kelly's manager said he wasn't interested. They said something like "we won't die trying" from memory. So whilst if I was Freo I'd not look to get him, Freo appear to not be swayed by that.

Freo seemed to be banking on Kelly's desire to come home when GFC and WC were at loggerheads. It couldn't hurt Freo to ask GFC and Kelly. In this case here, Freo weren't offering a top 10 pick.

if for some unlikely reason Geelong & WC don't agree and he goes to the draft, it appears Freo will still pick him up. They appear based on their actions this year that they are not swayed but Kelly not wanting to go there

Freo weren't swayed at the time because they were banking on Kelly's desire to come home being more than his distaste for the FFC. Freo were wrong. In 2019, Freo will likely have to part with a top 10 pick to get Kelly in the draft, with the knowledge that despite wanting to come home, he'd rather stay in Geelong than play for them. It's a big price and a big gamble for Freo. WC can and should call Freo's bluff.

and they will probably have a preseason pick before you. Will they do it? Maybe not. Just basing it on how Freo behaved in this year's trade period.

WC can simply salary price out its competitors when it comes to the PSD. WC having a later pick to Freo then becomes a non-issue.

 

[frenchconnection]

Surely this discussion has reached its 'use by date' until trade period next year? It seems to be going around and around in circles with no conclusion

Troll troll troll.

“West Coast told Kelly all year they’d pick him up.”

“West Coast told Kelly they’d draft him.”

No actual basis in fact for either statement. Don’t let that stop you though. Tell us again how West Coast let him down four years ago by not drafting him when he was a faceless WAFL player.

Not so sure you have your words right as there is no such thing as a guarantee. In more likelihood the Club would have said "they would do their best to do a deal" and bearing in mind we did not have a pick until the 20s and getting a higher pick would all depend upon another Club willing to do a swap which obviously did not come to fruition, then I think you are stretching the truth to suit your own argument!

 

[dazbroncos]

Good. Keep him fit, so he can hit preseason training for WC next year in good shape.

so all the posts previous about TK sitting out this year from WC supporters were just dribbling s**t then.. ok

Pattern developing nicely here.

Go Catters

 

[dazbroncos]

So explain to us how you get that picking from pick 48 onwards instead of multiple picks in the 2nd round?

Wells picked Enright at 47... Menegola was 60's...
You need more examples of getting top end talent from late picks... there's a litany of them.... Im sure even WC has had some..

oh no.. thats right... you need 2 picks in the 20's to make a good draft

GO Catters

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Read today how Geelong rang five times to speak with Clark in the days leading up to the draft to reconfirm he was ok to relocate away from WA.

Wanted to be sure he didn't have a wife with kids, girlfriend expecting twins in the new year. Stuff like that!!

Great to see the Geelong recruiting team are getting their sh!t together this time round.

Geelong would hide behind the salary cap excuse for not supporting Clark because off-field pastoral care is not their strong point.

It will be interesting to see how Geelong manage Clark and his glandular fever. It is not normally a 1 month issue. If it lasts and Clark is delayed until second part of the year, it may turn into the winter of his discontent.

Who knows, he may end up requesting a trade in October - to the club he supported growing up

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Wells picked Enright at 47... Menegola was 60's...
You need more examples of getting top end talent from late picks... there's a litany of them.... Im sure even WC has had some..

oh no.. thats right... you need 2 picks in the 20's to make a good draft

GO Catters

So West Coast took McGovern Priddis and Cox with rookie picks. About as relevant as your examples.

What I think is fantastic is the blind faith (bordering on brainwashing Jonesville style worship) that Geelong fans think Wells not wanting to take the picks make them invaluable.

The simple fact is you increase the chances of getting better players when you get first or an earlier choice on who you select.

Nobody in their right mind would say that the Geelong best 22 would be better for losing Kelly and gaining picks. Hell, the Cats would be weaker in 2019 losing Kelly and gaining Walsh (the local boy you overlooked). I would think most astute afl watchers would happily trade Kelly for Walsh.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Congrats Matera92 your comment is still the most intelligent coming from out West. Quite the feat.

 

[Cattergirl]

Geelong would hide behind the salary cap excuse for not supporting Clark because off-field pastoral care is not their strong point.

It will be interesting to see how Geelong manage Clark and his glandular fever. It is not normally a 1 month issue. If it lasts and Clark is delayed until second part of the year, it may turn into the winter of his discontent.

Who knows, he may end up requesting a trade in October - to the club he supported growing up

It does amuse me that an opposition supporter can claim to know that Pastoral care isn’t Geelong’s strong point

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

It does amuse me that an opposition supporter can claim to know that Pastoral care isn’t Geelong’s strong point

It's an area where everyone thinks their own club is great, and only their club.

 

[Obeanie1]

Geelong would hide behind the salary cap excuse for not supporting Clark because off-field pastoral care is not their strong point.

It will be interesting to see how Geelong manage Clark and his glandular fever. It is not normally a 1 month issue. If it lasts and Clark is delayed until second part of the year, it may turn into the winter of his discontent.

Who knows, he may end up requesting a trade in October - to the club he supported growing up

Glandular fever ended Alec Watermans career at the Eagles. Persevered for two seasons before retiring / getting cut and took another 1-2 years to get back on the field.

Hopefully Clarke isnt as bad.

 

[Obeanie1]

It does amuse me that an opposition supporter can claim to know that Pastoral care isn’t Geelong’s strong point

This thread is 70% banter, 29% bullsh!t and 1% factual.

Thought everyone had worked that out by now.

 

[Pulsedriver]

so all the posts previous about TK sitting out this year from WC supporters were just dribbling s**t then.. ok

Pattern developing nicely here.

Go Catters

Kelly sitting out the year was a possibility when some posted what they did, and it still may occur at some point or to some degree. I personally don't think he will. Your post here suggests you see WC supporters as a monolith, rather than individuals having independent opinions of each other. You really need to work on your ability to reason and logic.

 

[Pulsedriver]

It does amuse me that an opposition supporter can claim to know that Pastoral care isn’t Geelong’s strong point

Kelly's missus knows what the pastoral care provided by Geelong is all about, and she basically said it's s**t.

 

[Obeanie1]

Because its true.

The only bad faith is telling a player all year we’ll pick you up then not doing anything to affect that outcome. Actually telling the player during the draft they’d pick him and then low and behold they use their picks on others. My guess is they never rated him and still don’t.



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So when did the Eagles say they would draft Kelly with their top picks?

They had three 2nd rounders to use.

Likely he was going at 26. Cats jumped in a couple of picks earlier.

Bit of a strawman arguement you have there.

 

[Damon_3388]

So when did the Eagles say they would draft Kelly with their top picks?

They had three 2nd rounders to use.

Likely he was going at 26. Cats jumped in a couple of picks earlier.

Bit of a strawman arguement you have there.

They might have given him a "we'll consider you if you're still available" indication, without really going out of their way to ensure that they get him (eg. moving up in the draft). Interest, for the right price, if you will.

Liam Ryan was probably the Eagles' first priority (Pick #26), and they might have thought Kelly would last until later (who was the last 23-year-old to be taken in the top 25 of the National Draft? It doesn't really happen these days), or they'd take him with one of their next two picks (#32 and #38) if he was available.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Read today how Geelong rang five times to speak with Clark in the days leading up to the draft to reconfirm he was ok to relocate away from WA.

Wanted to be sure he didn't have a wife with kids, girlfriend expecting twins in the new year. Stuff like that!!

Great to see the Geelong recruiting team are getting their sh!t together this time round.

Your talent is wasted on Bigfooty...

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Geelong would hide behind the salary cap excuse for not supporting Clark because off-field pastoral care is not their strong point.

Your constant parroting of this is hilarious

It will be interesting to see how Geelong manage Clark and his glandular fever. It is not normally a 1 month issue. If it lasts and Clark is delayed until second part of the year, it may turn into the winter of his discontent.

Who knows, he may end up requesting a trade in October - to the club he supported growing up

*fingers crossed* hey!