David Warner

Sep 30, 2008
14,336
17,809
Western Victoria
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Chelsea
I don't really see it with Carey just yet, at least not to warrant selection ahead of Paine, if we're looking at form.
Admittedly, Paine was picked on feeling rather than on a weight of runs, but he has done a good job with the bat and gloves since his return. I doubt he'll maintain his current average but 38 is very good. We're not going to get hundreds out of him but he's made several valuable knocks. Also does a good job with the gloves. He seems to be one of those players that steps up to the national level with his technique.
I tend to use the Marcellus Wallace line "If you were gonna make it...you would have made it by now" Paine is the man for the job, but it's literally old mother hubbard's cupboard, I thought Whiteman was the one but he's had a horror run with injuries, Nevill is awfully stiff and I think he's a better keeper and bat than Paine but he couldn't be Captain even though he does it for NSW. It's a shambles and an accurate reflection of how the CA systems are (not) working.
 

Ducky Tie

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 15, 2011
9,063
20,689
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
I tend to use the Marcellus Wallace line "If you were gonna make it...you would have made it by now" Paine is the man for the job, but it's literally old mother hubbard's cupboard, I thought Whiteman was the one but he's had a horror run with injuries, Nevill is awfully stiff and I think he's a better keeper and bat than Paine but he couldn't be Captain even though he does it for NSW. It's a shambles and an accurate reflection of how the CA systems are (not) working.
Don't disagree with you there. I guess the problem is that no one stands up and makes it theirs. Nevill may be stiff that he didn't get the call up this time last year, but he hasn't responded by putting runs on the board. Carey doesn't put runs on the board. Wade as a keeping option is done. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out in the next few years. I know Carey seems to be the anointed one but unless he improves his batting, it won't work out IMO. An average in the 20s won't cut it. Fingers crossed someone can stand up and make it obviously theirs.
 

carnthemlions

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 19, 2012
10,473
10,836
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
San Francisco 49ers, Hertha Berlin
Don't disagree with you there. I guess the problem is that no one stands up and makes it theirs. Nevill may be stiff that he didn't get the call up this time last year, but he hasn't responded by putting runs on the board. Carey doesn't put runs on the board. Wade as a keeping option is done. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out in the next few years. I know Carey seems to be the anointed one but unless he improves his batting, it won't work out IMO. An average in the 20s won't cut it. Fingers crossed someone can stand up and make it obviously theirs.
If we're honest Carey hasn't actually done much to date. One shield century + a less than convincing record, one big bash century and a below average domestic one day record. He's a 27 year old being picked purely on potential, which isn't something he can get by on for long unless the competition stays as weak as it is at the moment.
I tend to use the Marcellus Wallace line "If you were gonna make it...you would have made it by now" Paine is the man for the job, but it's literally old mother hubbard's cupboard, I thought Whiteman was the one but he's had a horror run with injuries, Nevill is awfully stiff and I think he's a better keeper and bat than Paine but he couldn't be Captain even though he does it for NSW. It's a shambles and an accurate reflection of how the CA systems are (not) working.
Jimmy Peirson? As a batsman he's probably a bit like Haddin- lite, but certainly not that far off Carey.
 

G Mus

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 30, 2015
6,962
7,312
Perth
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Juventus
I tend to use the Marcellus Wallace line "If you were gonna make it...you would have made it by now" Paine is the man for the job, but it's literally old mother hubbard's cupboard, I thought Whiteman was the one but he's had a horror run with injuries, ]Nevil is awfully stiff and I think he's a better keeper and bat than Paine but he couldn't be Captain even though he does it for NSW. It's a shambles and an accurate reflection of how the CA systems are (not) working.

Really?
 

carnthemlions

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 19, 2012
10,473
10,836
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
San Francisco 49ers, Hertha Berlin
What a strange world I live in that an ex captain is being held responsible for sandpaper being brought out onto the field and not the 30 year old man who did it.
Boof seems to have done the smart thing and stayed quiet, which is unfortunate as he should be taking as much of the blame as anyone.
 
May 5, 2016
43,466
48,500
AFL Club
Geelong
What a strange world I live in that an ex captain is being held responsible for sandpaper being brought out onto the field and not the 30 year old man who did it.

The most famous cricketing examples of poor sportsmanship or winning at all costs are 38 and 87 years old respectively.

In both cases the guy who bowled one ball along the ground and the three guys who deliberately aimed at the batsmen’s bodies are not held responsible.
 
The most famous cricketing examples of poor sportsmanship or winning at all costs are 38 and 87 years old respectively.

In both cases the guy who bowled one ball along the ground and the three guys who deliberately aimed at the batsmen’s bodies are not held responsible.
Neither were against the rules at the time though. I'd also argue that circumstances are slightly different back then in that a bunch of Players in Voce, Bowes and Larwood weren't going to stand up to a Gentlemen like Jardine any more than Trevor Chappell was going to tell his older brother to shove it. It took fellow amateur Gubby Allen to express to Jardine his doubts about Bodyline and he actually refused to bowl it.
 
May 5, 2016
43,466
48,500
AFL Club
Geelong
Neither were against the rules at the time though. I'd also argue that circumstances are slightly different back then in that a bunch of Players in Voce, Bowes and Larwood weren't going to stand up to a Gentlemen like Jardine any more than Trevor Chappell was going to tell his older brother to shove it. It took fellow amateur Gubby Allen to express to Jardine his doubts about Bodyline and he actually refused to bowl it.

Indeed, but the sentiment remains the same - a junior figure being, to a degree, being absolved of the perceived sin while others in higher authority - rightly - bore the brunt
 
Sep 30, 2008
14,336
17,809
Western Victoria
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Chelsea
The most famous cricketing examples of poor sportsmanship or winning at all costs are 38 and 87 years old respectively.

In both cases the guy who bowled one ball along the ground and the three guys who deliberately aimed at the batsmen’s bodies are not held responsible.
Poor sportsmanship versus a very and premeditated deliberate attempt to cheat? None of them are in the highlight book but for me the last one is the worst and deserved the response it got.
 
Sep 30, 2008
14,336
17,809
Western Victoria
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Chelsea
I agree, I just don’t think it’s that strange that the finger is being pointed away from the person who actually sanded the ball/
The reason the focus is on firstly Warner is that it was his idea, and we all know what a rocket scientist he is. Second man in the gun is Smith because he knew about it and did nothing effectively condoning it - he can never Captain Australia again he has forfeited that right. Number 3 is Bancroft because he did it and clearly as a junior member felt like it was his role to perform it. I have absolutely no problem with the order of focus and the bans meted out, I reckon they were spot on. We had to send a very strong message, it has been done and now everyone just has to cop their right whack and move on.
 
May 5, 2016
43,466
48,500
AFL Club
Geelong
The reason the focus is on firstly Warner is that it was his idea, and we all know what a rocket scientist he is. Second man in the gun is Smith because he knew about it and did nothing effectively condoning it - he can never Captain Australia again he has forfeited that right. Number 3 is Bancroft because he did it and clearly as a junior member felt like it was his role to perform it. I have absolutely no problem with the order of focus and the bans meted out, I reckon they were spot on. We had to send a very strong message, it has been done and now everyone just has to cop their right whack and move on.

Absolutely
 
Oct 16, 2011
15,266
37,589
AFL Club
Adelaide
I agree, I just don’t think it’s that strange that the finger is being pointed away from the person who actually sanded the ball/

I don't really have an issue with people taking their whack for what happened on the field but for Whateley to feel like he could take a cheap shot and lay the blame at the feet of a disliked figure who hasn't been involved in the side for years was just lame. I would have thought Lehmann, the selectors, the chairman of the ACB should have been the ones in the firing line. All of those were custodians of our culture, not the guy not involved with the set up for years. I mean, he could have said it started with Steve Waugh but the backlash would have been too hard on Whateley so he took the cheap option.
 
Sep 30, 2008
14,336
17,809
Western Victoria
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Chelsea
I don't really have an issue with people taking their whack for what happened on the field but for Whateley to feel like he could take a cheap shot and lay the blame at the feet of a disliked figure who hasn't been involved in the side for years was just lame. I would have thought Lehmann, the selectors, the chairman of the ACB should have been the ones in the firing line. All of those were custodians of our culture, not the guy not involved with the set up for years. I mean, he could have said it started with Steve Waugh but the backlash would have been too hard on Whateley so he took the cheap option.
As I recall Clarke popped his head up and suggested Australia won't win s**t unless they're pushing the mythical "line" - I'm not sure why he would say that in the context of what Australian Cricket has just been through. Clarke's off field leadership of Australia was a total ******* disaster - Steve Waugh played very hard and never took a backward step but to compare him and Clarke? Not even in the same city. Whately went too far with his assessment but for mine, Clarke invited criticism of himself and the selfish and entitled culture of the Australians and he was a massive part of that.
 
Sep 21, 2002
52,639
46,330
Adelaide
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Norwood
The reason the focus is on firstly Warner is that it was his idea, and we all know what a rocket scientist he is. Second man in the gun is Smith because he knew about it and did nothing effectively condoning it - he can never Captain Australia again he has forfeited that right. Number 3 is Bancroft because he did it and clearly as a junior member felt like it was his role to perform it. I have absolutely no problem with the order of focus and the bans meted out, I reckon they were spot on. We had to send a very strong message, it has been done and now everyone just has to cop their right whack and move on.

Agree. I have no problem with Smith returning to the team, providing he's made enough runs to be selected, which he probably would. Same with Warner or Bancroft. If they've copped their whack, paid their dues, they are available for selection, just as any other Australian cricketer is. Captaincy is another issue. I don't feel Smith's leadership was all that great in the first place, so I cannot see why he would deserve another crack as captain. Time to look elsewhere.
 
May 5, 2016
43,466
48,500
AFL Club
Geelong
I don't really have an issue with people taking their whack for what happened on the field but for Whateley to feel like he could take a cheap shot and lay the blame at the feet of a disliked figure who hasn't been involved in the side for years was just lame. I would have thought Lehmann, the selectors, the chairman of the ACB should have been the ones in the firing line. All of those were custodians of our culture, not the guy not involved with the set up for years. I mean, he could have said it started with Steve Waugh but the backlash would have been too hard on Whateley so he took the cheap option.

He didn’t lay the blame there anymore than people laid the blame on Border and Waugh with comments like ‘australia’s attitude to winning had its origins with Border or Waugh’ which is absolutely true.

When someone says something as blatantly stupid and ignorant as Clarke’s statement, it’s not a cheap shot for a person who’s job is to actually comment on these things, to fire back.

As whateley said, Clarke has completely missed the point. And furthermore, his pathetic ‘we have to be c***s to win’ is a gigantic slap in the face to every player who made the Australian team as strong as it was.

I would suggest they became as great as the did because they had absolutely world class players from 1-11 for a decade, and that’s the nuts and bolts of it.

SA had a couple of abrasive cricketers during their decade of near-unbeatenness but by and large, do you think that players like Kallis, Morkel, De Villiers, Ntini and Amla made them great by standing there abusing the opposition non stop?
 
Sep 27, 2008
135,145
155,449
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Chelsea, Black Caps, Subiaco
As I recall Clarke popped his head up and suggested Australia won't win s**t unless they're pushing the mythical "line" - I'm not sure why he would say that in the context of what Australian Cricket has just been through. Clarke's off field leadership of Australia was a total ******* disaster - Steve Waugh played very hard and never took a backward step but to compare him and Clarke? Not even in the same city. Whately went too far with his assessment but for mine, Clarke invited criticism of himself and the selfish and entitled culture of the Australians and he was a massive part of that.

Waugh was captain of an absolute gun side plus he was an elder statesman of the team when he became captain that automatically commanded respect.

Clarke took over a team that was in transition and he was a younger captain like Kim Hughes that had older bulls like Katich and Symonds undermining him like Lillee and Marsh did with Hughes. I thought Clarke was a great captain on field, off field he could've been better but he had some bad cards dealt against him.
 

JimDocker

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 16, 2007
5,981
3,433
Fremantle
AFL Club
Fremantle
Other Teams
Doncaster Rovers, Boston Celtics
I don't think it was the smartest move from Clarke to say what he said, but just as Whateley is paid to give opinions, Clarke has been in the media for a while now and does have some insight, having had a pretty fantastic career.

Whateley may have been more articulate, but he was more out of line than Clarke. He apportioned blame in a totally disproportionate manner.
 
Oct 16, 2011
15,266
37,589
AFL Club
Adelaide
As I recall Clarke popped his head up and suggested Australia won't win s**t unless they're pushing the mythical "line" - I'm not sure why he would say that in the context of what Australian Cricket has just been through. Clarke's off field leadership of Australia was a total ******* disaster - Steve Waugh played very hard and never took a backward step but to compare him and Clarke? Not even in the same city. Whately went too far with his assessment but for mine, Clarke invited criticism of himself and the selfish and entitled culture of the Australians and he was a massive part of that.

He was actually asked in a radio interview what he thought of Australias chances in the test series and how we were tracking with our new philosophy. The way people are acting it is like he called a press conference calling for himself to replace Tim Paine as captain ( although to be fair, I am sure the thought has crossed his mind on a way to regular basis).
 

big_e

Existential crisis management consultant
Apr 28, 2008
12,560
38,503
Back Pocket
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Wycombe Wanderers
Waugh was captain of an absolute gun side plus he was an elder statesman of the team when he became captain that automatically commanded respect.

Clarke took over a team that was in transition and he was a younger captain like Kim Hughes that had older bulls like Katich and Symonds undermining him like Lillee and Marsh did with Hughes. I thought Clarke was a great captain on field, off field he could've been better but he had some bad cards dealt against him.
The test careers of both Katich and Symonds had finished before Clarke became captain (a couple of months before he turned 30).

Other than that, your post was accurate.
 
Sep 27, 2008
135,145
155,449
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Chelsea, Black Caps, Subiaco
The test careers of both Katich and Symonds had finished before Clarke became captain (a couple of months before he turned 30).

Other than that, your post was accurate.

Clarke was VC back then though wasn't he? According to Katich and Symonds he had enough influence to finish both their test careers.

They still hold a lot of bitterness towards him.

Symonds finished his own test career by being a booze hound, was lucky to play test cricket in the first place, only Martyn walking away got him a gig.

Katich was a solid opener but he was no Hayden or Langer and even they weren't that great, flat track bullies come to mind.

Clarke is a better and more intelligent cricketer than most of the dopes that got gigs on Ch7/Foxtel, looking forward to seeing more barbs from him.
 
May 5, 2016
43,466
48,500
AFL Club
Geelong
He was actually asked in a radio interview what he thought of Australias chances in the test series and how we were tracking with our new philosophy. The way people are acting it is like he called a press conference calling for himself to replace Tim Paine as captain ( although to be fair, I am sure the thought has crossed his mind on a way to regular basis).


He more or less issued a press release in the wake of it mate, that’s got more people riled up than what he first said.

With his original comments plenty of people would disagree - myself included - but say that he’s entitled to that opinion because of his role playing alongside many of the current players. His response to what Whateley said is burring more people up
 
Back