Draft Profile Liam Stocker

[Rich01]

Oh look, another who reckons you've made a mistake if the #1 pick doesn't develop into the best player of his draft.

What an amazingly simplistic way of looking at things.

Weitering just turned 21 and has shown plenty at AFL level. If he develops as we hope, I couldn't give a **** how good Oliver is or becomes.

That’s a fair call. Oliver is clearly the superior player but you didn’t prioritise another another clearance gun in 2015 at the top end of the draft. But I can see now why you picked Walsh and Stocker this year to address this need now.

It’s likely Sam Walsh won’t be the best pick in the 2018 draft either, but it won’t be through his lack of trying. He’s a solid bet to be at the very least a very good player. Carlton have a lot of young talent on their list now and couldn’t afford to take a risk at 1.

Talls at the top end could be anything - From Nick Riewoldt to Tom Boyd- Lukosius could be anywhere in this mix, although he’s been compared to the former. And Rankine looms as the most exciting of the three. Can’t wait to see them all develop.

 

[gardiner stand]

Add Weitering to that list.
Clayton Oliver already an elite midfielder at 21. Reckon Carlton learnt their lesson.

Weitering is 21 and you’ve already declared him a bust? Have you forgotten how spudly Rance was in his first few seasons? Everytime Rance had the ball the expected outcome was a turnover. He turned out ok I think.
Judging kids after 3 seasons is foolish.

 

[Rich01]

You do realize mids come on quicker than KPP's? Wondering how Rance was assessed compared to his cohorts at the end of 3 seasons. Perhaps reassessing the situation when they are both, 24-25, will give appropriate insight

The discussion is about the use of a number 1 pick. Rance as a junior was a very good defender with ordinary kicking skills. That was the reason he was picked at 18 in his draft year. He’s definitely lived up to the pick we got him at.

Pick 1 should be a clear match winner.

Hopefully Weitering can step up and become that type of player capable of doing that in the next few years.

 

[Monkey King]

SOS doesn't rate mature age players for anything other than filling list spots and only seems to select recylced AFL players. It's good for the other 17 clubs who are on the look out for your Kelly, Stewart, Fritsch, Lambert types.

Was pretty well known that SOS was into Kelly early on last year, so there goes that idea.

McGovern, Setterfield, Marchbank; these guys aren’t recycled AFL players.

 

[dlb99]

Oliver is all Australian and club best and fairest at 21. Understandable after overlooking him for Weitering Carlton looked at a safe mid as their first pick this year.
Weitering will hopefully turn into a serviceable Lever type interceptor over time.
Oliver is already at AA level at 21. Amazing.

Oliver is thus far the best from the 2015 draft. A great pick by the Dees.

Does not mean that Weitering was a bad pick for us. We prioritised bigs in that draft with Weitering, Harry McKay and Charlie Curnow. SOS prefers to draft talls first then get mids in later drafts, which is what we did with Dow/O'Brian last year and Walsh/Stocker this year.

With my rose coloured glasses on I think we did very well with those three tall picks in 2015. Many non-Carlton folks think Curnow is the 2nd best from that draft, with a chance to overtake Oliver if he fully develops.

For those not following, Weitering had a very good 2016, bad 2017 and good 2nd half of 2018. I can't wait to see how he goes next year.

 

[Jeremias]

That’s a fair call. Oliver is clearly the superior player but you didn’t prioritise another another clearance gun in 2015 at the top end of the draft. But I can see now why you picked Walsh and Stocker this year to address this need now.

Oliver is clearly the superior player right now.

Three years in both Scott Selwood and Andy Otten were better players than Alex Rance.

 

[Rich01]

Oliver is clearly the superior player right now.

Three years in both Scott Selwood and Andy Otten were better players than Alex Rance.

Scott Selwood and Andy Otten probably lived up to their drafted positions. Fair to say Rances 4xAA and career so far has been pretty decent for pick 18.

So he’s far outperformed where he was picked in the draft.

Pick 1 is always tough, not many end up the best of their draft. Hopefully Weitering ends up a star. For where you picked him, that should be the expectation.

 

[dlb99]

Talls at the top end could be anything - From Nick Riewoldt to Tom Boyd- Lukosius could be anywhere in this mix, although he’s been compared to the former. And Rankine looms as the most exciting of the three. Can’t wait to see them all develop.

The range of opinion on Lukosius is wide.

Some had him as clear best in draft.

My source, AFL recruiter, was not as sold. His words, Luko has beautiful skills but does not work hard enough. He said he would be shocked if Lukosius turns out to be as good as Nick Reiwoldt, instead he projects closer to Justin Westoff. He could be very wrong.

My Blues could not take that risk since we already have Charlie Curnow as a good forward prospect and we need midfield help. We needed to hit the midfield this draft.

Also, Carlton does not need Sam Walsh to be THE best of this draft, instead we want him to be one of the best and an important piece of a premiership team. Think Luke Hodge, not the best of 2001 but a damn important cog of a successful team.

AFL is not tennis, best individual does not always maketh the successful teams.

 

[dlb99]

Pick 1 is always tough, not many end up the best of their draft. Hopefully Weitering ends up a star. For where you picked him, that should be the expectation.

Yes, that is the expectation.

Something like Harry Taylor with a dash of Chris Langford would be ideal.

Marchbank would be our loose tall interceptor, Jake Lever style.

 

[Rich01]

Yes, that is the expectation.

Something like Harry Taylor with a dash of Chris Langford would be ideal.

Marchbank would be our loose tall interceptor, Jake Lever style.

Looking forward to Bolton finally giving him some key position responsibility this year if that’s the case.

 

[dlb99]

Looking forward to Bolton finally giving him some key position responsibility this year if that’s the case.

No, not yet.

Liam Jones and Hugh Goddard take the Tom Hawkins / Josh Kennedy types.

 

[Scodog10]

I think you need to read that again.

That seems a very reasonable statement based on my reading of the article. I don’t think it’s completely accurate, but I would be confident that of clubs that had picks inside the top 20 Carlton was the only one that had him inside the top 15-20 for varying reasons. Who knows where Hawthorn, Sydney, North, Collingwood, Melbourne and Essendon rated him.

I also don’t see any reason to disagree with it? I mean if you back SOS in it’s a nothing statement. Personally I think SOS is a rubbish list manager so I find it interesting.

 

[Carl]

That seems a very reasonable statement based on my reading of the article. I don’t think it’s completely accurate, but I would be confident that of clubs that had picks inside the top 20 Carlton was the only one that had him inside the top 15-20 for varying reasons. Who knows where Hawthorn, Sydney, North, Collingwood, Melbourne and Essendon rated him.

I also don’t see any reason to disagree with it? I mean if you back SOS in it’s a nothing statement. Personally I think SOS is a rubbish list manager so I find it interesting.

List manager or recruiter? I'd love to know what deals you think he did were good or bad at the time of the deal. Please take into consideration if a salary dump or player wanting to leave. I'm not saying Silvagni has done a great job, i'd just love to know an outsiders opinion.

Going on draft picks i think Adelaide definitely win this deal. Doesn't matter on where you think a player is ranked, the bottom line it looks like this will be pick 2 - 3 for pick 19 and 8 - 12. The real winner will be known next year when we find out where the teams finish on the ladder and in 10 years on player performance.

By the way the number 1 pick is rarely the best in the draft because they are competing against 70 other players.

 

[Ambrosia]

Was pretty well known that SOS was into Kelly early on last year, so there goes that idea.

McGovern, Setterfield, Marchbank; these guys aren’t recycled AFL players.

Never referenced those guys as recycled.

 

[Arr0w]

The discussion is about the use of a number 1 pick. Rance as a junior was a very good defender with ordinary kicking skills. That was the reason he was picked at 18 in his draft year. He’s definitely lived up to the pick we got him at.

Pick 1 should be a clear match winner.

Hopefully Weitering can step up and become that type of player capable of doing that in the next few years.

I see

If that is the case, you still have it wrong

The goal, most important priority, is to ensure you don't have a bust, whether that be pick 1 or any other pick, the rest is purely a bonus.

Pick 1, or any other early pick, just gives you a better chance to achieve that goal.

So the Weitering v Oliver comparisons is purely a p1ssing contest, as both seem like not being busts.

 

[Monkey King]

Never referenced those guys as recycled.

When you say SOS only seems to select recylced AFL players, it’s kinda a cover all.

 

[Unique Name]

Gold Coast, St Kilda, Fremantle and Port. Not saying we will finish above them all, but we could.

Port has lost some talent, could turn ugly, maybe maybe not.

Note, I am expecting the Blues to finish 3rd of 4th last (7-8 wins).

Quadruple your win count!

In our first matchup last year we ran a training drill for the first half and your fans boo'd your team off the ground.

In our second matchup Freo played atrocious football for 3 qtrs of football. We played half decent football in one qtr of football and piled on 7 unanswered goals to cruise to a fairly easy win.

Freo were completely cooked by the end of last year. When we played you we were the younger and more inexperienced side (With more 1st year players) and we still comfortably beat you.


I feel fairly bullish about Adelaide's 2019 season and looking at your list I really don't think the Stocker trade is going look good by the end of the 2019 season.

 

[dlb99]

Quadruple your win count!

In our first matchup last year we ran a training drill for the first half and your fans boo'd your team off the ground.

In our second matchup Freo played atrocious football for 3 qtrs of football. We played half decent football in one qtr of football and piled on 7 unanswered goals to cruise to a fairly easy win.

Freo were completely cooked by the end of last year. When we played you we were the younger and more inexperienced side (With more 1st year players) and we still comfortably beat you.


I feel fairly bullish about Adelaide's 2019 season and looking at your list I really don't think the Stocker trade is going look good by the end of the 2019 season.

Your game against Geelong was as ugly as any performance by my Blues, maybe worse. The Hawthorn game over in Perth was also superbad.

You also lost Lachie Neale, your best player. Sure, all is great Baghdad Bob.

 

[Unique Name]

Your game against Geelong was as ugly as any performance by my Blues, maybe worse. The Hawthorn game over in Perth was also superbad.

You also lost Lachie Neale, your best player. Sure, all is great Baghdad Bob.

That's my point.

We were horrid and still comfortably beat you with a younger and more inexperienced side.

 

[Ambrosia]

When you say SOS only seems to select recylced AFL players, it’s kinda a cover all.

I don't think anyone would see trades as selections

 

[Rich01]

I see

If that is the case, you still have it wrong

The goal, most important priority, is to ensure you don't have a bust, whether that be pick 1 or any other pick, the rest is purely a bonus.

Pick 1, or any other early pick, just gives you a better chance to achieve that goal.

So the Weitering v Oliver comparisons is purely a p1ssing contest, as both seem like not being busts.

The goal is to get the best pick suitable to the list requirement you have and the talent available at that pick. In 2015 Carlton had holes everywhere in their list. For pick 1 they went for a Lever intercept defender type.
Personally I’d prefer a matchwinner at this pick, but that’s the priority SOS made and that’s why he’s paid the big bucks. Sure talls take more time so hopefully Weitering ends up being that backline General he projected to be. If Bolton eventually gives home the opportunity he could even end up a gun key defender.


They overlooked the AA inside grunt midfielder in Oliver and decided to address this in the 2018 draft.

With all this in mind, Carlton have a very impressive list of kids. Their spread looks promising- think they just missed a trick at pick 1 in 2015.

 

[Crow till I die]

Your game against Geelong was as ugly as any performance by my Blues, maybe worse. The Hawthorn game over in Perth was also superbad.

You also lost Lachie Neale, your best player. Sure, all is great Baghdad Bob.

To be fair freo have struggled up forward and certainly addressed that by bringing in hogan and lobb..there is their ff and chf spots sorted in one trade period. Freo will be ok this coming year and i could see them in the group of teams pushing for a bottom of the top 8 spot

 

[THE_GUN]

To be fair to Carlton Oliver was never seen to be a #1 selection in his draft year and only came into top 10 contention the last couple of months
Weitering & Schace were always #1+#2 from my recollection

 

[Monkey King]

I don't think anyone would see trades as selections

You didn’t exactly say it like that, but fair enough if that what you meant.

Aside from wanting Kelly last year SOS also drafted Gallucci in the rookie draft a couple of years ago. Didn’t draft any recycled mature players until last year, when after losing Gibbs and Docherty he hit up Shaw and O’Shea in the PSD and rookie. That’s about it unless you want to add Garlett last year also.

None of this really fits with your overall narrative though.

 

[Ambrosia]

You didn’t exactly say it like that, but fair enough if that what you meant.

Aside from wanting Kelly last year SOS also drafted Gallucci in the rookie draft a couple of years ago. Didn’t draft any recycled mature players until last year, when after losing Gibbs and Docherty he hit up Shaw and O’Shea in the PSD and rookie. That’s about it unless you want to add Garlett last year also.

None of this really fits with your overall narrative though.

I don't see how my narrative doesn't fit? SOS seems to prefer picking up DFAs and rookieing recylced players over drafting mature age talent. Your counter to this was you drafted Galluci and wanted to draft Kelly. That's a pretty weak argument over 4 years of drafting.