Draft Profile Liam Stocker

[Ambrosia]

I agree. Trades and DFAs are completely different. Trades cost ND currency. DFA’s do not. My argument isn’t that trades and DFA’s are comparable, it’s that trades and draft picks have more with those state picks than DFA’s or rookie picks do.

I don’t much consider Shaw, O'Shea and Mullett an indication of anything other being desperate to cover the immediate loss of Gibbs and Docherty. And SOS would gladly have snafffled Kelly to do the same in the second round, which given the currency, indicates the stronger preference. To suggest he prefered Mullett (DFA) to Kelly (pick 24) is just a nonsense way of looking at things.

I never said Mullet was preferred over Kelly. I'm saying SOS clearly prefers recycled AFL talent to fill out the list over mature age state league talent.

 

[Carl]

Port Adelaide payed some of Lobbe salary.

GWS wanted a 1st rounder for Marchbank and only way to get it was to offload Touhy. Personally i like Touhy but can understand the trade.

The only list management decisions i can fault is why we keep getting recycled players on the rookie list. Give some young kids a go. The other recycled players that didn't work out were worth it because believe it or not they were better than the players that got delisted. I personally believe in turning over the list when your crap. If you look at our list compared to 4 years ago i think you will be shocked in how many list cloggers we had on our list.

Wait and see on the Stocker deal. Right now i don't like it compared on what likely picks were exchanged. Overall i think 90% of Carlton supporters would be happy with how SOS is going. 100 times better than the crap before him. Takes time to build and list and for once he's gone about it the right way. If the kids the club picked up aren't up to it then that's another thing. You can blame him/recruiters or on player development.

 

[Monkey King]

I never said Mullet was preferred over Kelly. I'm saying SOS clearly prefers recycled AFL talent to fill out the list over mature age state league talent.

The problem here is that in the post I initially replied to, you named a few guys taken in the second round, Kelly among them, and suggested that somehow, SOS taking DFA’s meant these guys were more available to other clubs. That’s the nonsensical perspective I weighed in on.

Like I said at the start, the first crack in that theory is that SOS actually wanted Kelly. The second is that what would actually make these guys more available to other clubs is not DFA’s, but the mature players SOS prefers around this currency range, guys like Setterfield, McGovern, Marchbank etc.

I get this doesn’t suit your narrative and you’d prefer to just keep those guys out of it, but you can’t corral the thinking of others into a more limited perspective just because the bigger picture doesn’t match how you want to represent the situation.

 

[SOSforPM]

Offensively tuohy is not a bad player, but he is a defensive liability. Gets found out time and again. He wanted us to pay decent coin for him and left when we did not budge our offer. If you look at that trade in isolation, Geelong “won” as Smedts was rubbish. However we did the trade to bring in Marchbank (and to a lesser extent Pickett) without giving away our first round picks. Looking at the combined trade from a Carlton perspective it’s a win/win.

Yes Port wanted Lobbe off the books but that had nothing to do with Carlton. He was serviceable at AFL level and we didn’t give anything valuable for him. We also would have traded him in on a reduced Salary.

At the time weren’t port going to give us a pick to take Lobbe and his full salary but the AFL denied it?

We definitely don’t have lobbe’s Full contract on the books.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Both Casboult and Phillips were injured for much of 2018. North were looking to offload Goldstein and get value on the trade table for him which wouldn't have made sense for Carlton to give up anything of value.

I don't know exactly how all these contracts work but I imagine there is a limit to how much you can front load contracts and player manager would rightly realise there is extra cap space and dig there heals in when it comes for their players to resign. There must be some value in having a player take up a chunk of cap space who can be delisted at years end.

The idea you would simply throw money away to meet the minimum cap troubles me. If you have to raise your TPP then surely it would better to go to guys doing their job, explain the situation, and restructure their contracts.

I cant imagine player managers not agreeing to extra cash for their player, on the understanding the club us paying overs for a year or two.

I dont believe the playing group dont work out what's going on. They might have to wear it for a guy like Palmer where there were other aspects. Surely they'd be pissed if they saw the club chucking money away for the sake if it though.

 

[Robertio]

The Lobbe trade was confusing for me or i didnt get all the details or perhaps may have missed an important piece of it

Why did Carlton take him off Port Adelaide and pay him the big dollars he was on

What was in it for Carlton as he certainly wasnt a player they needed

The Lobbe trade was confusing for me or i didnt get all the details or perhaps may have missed an important piece of it

Why did Carlton take him off Port Adelaide and pay him the big dollars he was on

What was in it for Carlton as he certainly wasnt a player they needed

They needed him in the last 4 or 5 games, good back up.

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

That seems a very reasonable statement based on my reading of the article. I don’t think it’s completely accurate, but I would be confident that of clubs that had picks inside the top 20 Carlton was the only one that had him inside the top 15-20 for varying reasons. Who knows where Hawthorn, Sydney, North, Collingwood, Melbourne and Essendon rated him.

I also don’t see any reason to disagree with it? I mean if you back SOS in it’s a nothing statement. Personally I think SOS is a rubbish list manager so I find it interesting.

My mail is Richmond had him top 10.

There were more teams that rated this kid up there as well. Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

 

[tigerwill]

My mail is Richmond had him top 10.

There were more teams that rated this kid up there as well. Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

Your mail is wrong. Nowhere near top 10, not even top 20

 

[tigerwill]

Haha righto mate. Enjoy RCD and his 'potential'

We will. I'm just saying your mail is wrong, Richmond never had him top 10, Media linked him to us, we weren't going to take him at our pick, we would've taken Hill if he was still there before Stocker. RCD slid, he was the obvious pick before both.
Not that it matters. Carlton got a good young player, so did we. Whether sos made the right call remains to be seen. After all they're only draft picks at the time.

It seems that you're trying to defend SOS's statement saying Carlton rated him a top 6 pick. He took a big gamble waiting so long if so many other clubs rated him in the top 10. Can you name those other clubs? Or is it just your opinion?

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Well I'm saying your mail is wrong.

So who's right? Only time will tell.

 

[Rich01]

Haha righto mate. Enjoy RCD and his 'potential'

Heh, how insecure.

Perhaps stick to what is known.
SOS rated Stocker as a top 6 player in this draft. Many think this is just bullshit to appease the great unwashed and it’s obvious some of them have clung on to this in this thread.

But then again, he did rate Jon O Rourke as a top two talent, so perhaps he’s playing us all for fools.

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Heh, how insecure.

Perhaps stick to what is known.
SOS rated Stocker as a top 6 player in this draft. Many think this is just bullshit to appease the great unwashed and it’s obvious some of them have clung on to this in this thread.

But then again, he did rate Jon O Rourke as a top two talent, so perhaps he’s playing us all for fools.

How are Reece Conca and Corey Ellis travelling? Picking out the odd flop from a recruiter is a silly argument. But all good.

 

[Rich01]

How are Reece Conca and Corey Ellis travelling? Picking out the odd flop from a recruiter is a silly argument. But all good.

Ah the Francis Jackson years. Different head recruiter. Clarke’s our man now.

For someone supposedly in the know about our draft ratings you don’t know much about our recruiters.

 

[Marcel Proust]

How are Reece Conca and Corey Ellis travelling? Picking out the odd flop from a recruiter is a silly argument. But all good.

Conca just signed a two million dollar contract. Going alright.

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Ah the Francis Jackson years. Different head recruiter. Clarke’s our man now.

For someone supposedly in the know about our draft ratings you don’t know much about our recruiters.

So SOS is still our head recruiter is he?

 

[Rich01]

So SOS is still our head recruiter is he?

You tell me, did he pull the trigger on the trade that got stocker, and was he the man in the middle on draft night making the calls on who to draft?

Looked the main man to me, and spoke to the media like he was too. You saying he’s a puppet?

 

[Marcel Proust]

My mail is Richmond had him top 10.

dont think so

 

[Eiffel 65]

My mail is Richmond had him top 10.

There were more teams that rated this kid up there as well. Don't believe everything you read in the papers.

Your mail is wrong. Nowhere near top 10, not even top 20

As a Carlton supporter, I'm pleased to have Stocker on board. He's a great selection for the club. Exactly what we need.

Adelaide will receive an upgrade on their future first which will give them flexibility and access to elite talent next year.

Richmond are very happy with RCD according to media reports.

Seems like everyone had a win

 

[Jeremias]

Looked the main man to me, and spoke to the media like he was too. You saying he’s a puppet?

No, he’s saying SOS isn’t our head recruiter. And he isn’t - Paul Brodie is.

Let’s all cut the trolling garbage thanks, on both sides.

 

[Rich01]

No, he’s saying SOS isn’t our head recruiter. And he isn’t - Paul Brodie is.

Let’s all cut the trolling garbage thanks, on both sides.

So Paul Brodie’s the man charged with rating Stocker at pick 6?
Will SOS be credited with this trade and pick in future years or will it depend on whether it was a success?

Just to be clear.

 

[Rich01]

As a Carlton supporter, I'm pleased to have Stocker on board. He's a great selection for the club. Exactly what we need.

Adelaide will receive an upgrade on their future first which will give them flexibility and access to elite talent next year.

Richmond are very happy with RCD according to media reports.

Seems like everyone had a win

This.

Stocker was picked at 19.
Carlton wanted him at this pick (and whether it was hyperbole or not SOS seemed to rate him higher). I thought he was around this mark and wouldn’t have been upset if we got him (if RCD wasnt on the board). We seem to have a few of those safe steady players so glad we weren’t tempted, although I heard he was rated below RCD on our rating board anyway.

RCD I’m really happy with at 20. Around this pick you strike gold, strike out or get a solid 2nd tier player. We’ve gone all in with RCD but at 20 I’m happy with that.

Both clubs should be happy.

 

[THE_GUN]

They needed him in the last 4 or 5 games, good back up.

What would have happened if he had not been there ?

I dont think he adds much and would have been better off getting games into De Koning , For carlton it wasnt about winning games the last 4-5 games but development

 

[Crow till I die]

We will. I'm just saying your mail is wrong, Richmond never had him top 10, Media linked him to us, we weren't going to take him at our pick, we would've taken Hill if he was still there before Stocker. RCD slid, he was the obvious pick before both.
Not that it matters. Carlton got a good young player, so did we. Whether sos made the right call remains to be seen. After all they're only draft picks at the time.

It seems that you're trying to defend SOS's statement saying Carlton rated him a top 6 pick. He took a big gamble waiting so long if so many other clubs rated him in the top 10. Can you name those other clubs? Or is it just your opinion?

The reality is that stocker in richmond's development system is more likely to become a topline player because their system is producing very good players. RCD in that system will have a great chance of flourishing as well. It is harder at carlton as they don't have the same off field strength and on field don't have the same level of player experience wise and talent wise. They may develop it but it is why players drafted to stronger clubs have a better chance to develop

 

[Marcel Proust]

Both clubs should be happy.

Sounds good in theory but its it'll be interesting to see how the career of pick 1 (or pick 2) pans out vs. Liam Stocker.

 

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

Sounds good in theory but its it'll be interesting to see how the career of pick 1 (or pick 2) pans out vs. Liam Stocker.

Once again you have no idea what you're talking about. Carlton still has a first round pick next year from Adelaide. It's not stocker vs a top 4 pick next year at all. It's stocker and Adelaide's first vs our first next year. We will trade that pick regardless for a big name anyway measuring this will be very difficulty. As I stated earlier, it's a win for everyone.