Which team is closer to playing in finals - Carlton, Gold Coast or St Kilda?

[aussierulesrules]

To me WC have been a very strong intercept marking and turnover team for years. What was new last year is the posession oriented game similar to the Hawks.

I see the Saints as a good negative team, we found them very frustrating in both games last year.

What they seemed to me to lack last year is the ability to transition into an attacking team that can take risks and dominate games against good sides. Maybe they're too defensive in the gameplan but these things are complicated and I only saw them live at Spotless.

Our transition has been a problem since about R9 of the 2017 season.

For the first 9 rounds of that season we were ranked no.1 in the league for transitioning the ball from D50 to F50, but from that point in the season on we were ranked dead-last at it, so basically Carlton I think it was figured out how to stop our transition, and other teams copied them, and we had no plan B. Going from best in the comp at it to the worst.

This year it was s**t again.

Ratten has dual roles next year, with the forward line, and also transition, so it will be interesting to see whether he gets us back to transitioning the ball well again.

 

[Ian Dunross]

They started ragging Savage iirc and we had no answer

 

[CasuallyDressed]

Carlton have the best 3 players if you put the 3 lists together, imo.

Cripps, Curnow, Docherty.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Carlton have the best 3 players if you put the 3 lists together, imo.

Cripps, Curnow, Docherty.

Jack Martin next up.

 

[Unique Name]

Carlton have the best 3 players if you put the 3 lists together, imo.

Cripps, Curnow, Docherty.

Gresham for the Saints would be in that group. At least equal to Curnow in impact.

 

[MitchRobinson12]

Gresham for the Saints would be in that group. At least equal to Curnow in impact.

Charlie or Ed?

 

[Unique Name]

Charlie or Ed?

If you combined the Saints, Gold Coast and Carlton lists do you think anyone would be referring to Ed Curnow if we were talking about top 3 players of that list? Top 30 and maybe.... not top 3.

 

[lewdogs]

Carlton have the best 3 players if you put the 3 lists together, imo.

Cripps, Curnow, Docherty.

Surely you're referring only to players under 24 or so? Even in that case I think you're wrong but if not you're seriously underrating Jack Steven for one, also Seb Ross.

 

[Jeremias]

Surely you're referring only to players under 24 or so? Even in that case I think you're wrong but if not you're seriously underrating Jack Steven for one, also Seb Ross.

With all due respect to him, I don't think anyone is taking Ross over any of those other three players.

Maybe Doc right now after the knee injury, given there is always a level of uncertainty about how players return from ACLs. But even that is a stretch IMO.

 

[MitchRobinson12]

If you combined the Saints, Gold Coast and Carlton lists do you think anyone would be referring to Ed Curnow if we were talking about top 3 players of that list? Top 30 and maybe.... not top 3.

Just surprised that in all 3 teams Gresham was the one you'd put with those 3, there's a few at the Saints who would be taken before him.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Just surprised that in all 3 teams Gresham was the one you'd put with those 3, there's a few at the Saints who would be taken before him.

Not if starting a list.

 

[Mat Mann]

Source?

 

[ManOfClay]

Should we start another argument about the XX number of better players Carlton have than Gresham?

 

[Unique Name]

Just surprised that in all 3 teams Gresham was the one you'd put with those 3, there's a few at the Saints who would be taken before him.

Suppose it's a bit of personal preference. I think Gresham is already a really good forward with quite a bit of potential to become a star.

Not sure why the Saints are talking about him getting more time in the midfield - I think if you have a 40-50 goal small forward on your list, why change how he plays. Similarly to Walters with us. Would much prefer Walters to play as a dedicated small forward than this 50-50 mid/fwd role he's currently doing.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Suppose it's a bit of personal preference. I think Gresham is already a really good forward with quite a bit of potential to become a star.

Not sure why the Saints are talking about him getting more time in the midfield - I think if you have a 40-50 goal small forward on your list, why change how he plays. Similarly to Walters with us. Would much prefer Walters to play as a dedicated small forward than this 50-50 mid/fwd role he's currently doing.

Depends on the quality of midfield and KPPs.

Who was Walters gonna crumb? Hogan changes things.

Saints KPPs on the other hand are much less reliable.

 

[Golumless]

Probably Saints, but that's more to do with Carlton and Gold Coast being absolutely atrocious more so then Saints actually showing any life.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Suppose it's a bit of personal preference. I think Gresham is already a really good forward with quite a bit of potential to become a star.

Not sure why the Saints are talking about him getting more time in the midfield - I think if you have a 40-50 goal small forward on your list, why change how he plays. Similarly to Walters with us. Would much prefer Walters to play as a dedicated small forward than this 50-50 mid/fwd role he's currently doing.

Agree with this. I don't mind him being thrown into the middle to try and generate some clearances if we're getting flogged there and can't get it inside 50, but his ability to outmaneuver his direct opponent inside 50 and kick goals from any angle is too valuable to make him into a full time mid. I'd keep Billings as a high half forward whose main job is delivering the ball inside 50 as well - he needs space to use his sublime skills and he's not going to get that playing as a mid. The fact that we re-signed Lonie and drafted two mature age small forwards suggests that they are going to try Billings and Gresham in the middle though.

Steven, Ross, Steele, Hannebery, Acres, Clark and Sinclair is a reasonable start for our midfield and I'd be going after two more guns to add to the mix. I think we should have tried to split pick 4 into a later top 10 pick and a late teens pick and taken Smith/Caldwell and Stocker/RCD/Ely Smith. Bytel is a serious wildcard - if he can get to full fitness he could be a major part of the puzzle.

 

[lewdogs]

With all due respect to him, I don't think anyone is taking Ross over any of those other three players.

Maybe Doc right now after the knee injury, given there is always a level of uncertainty about how players return from ACLs. But even that is a stretch IMO.

Ross would be on par with Curnow and Docherty. Steven is head and shoulders above both of them.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Suppose it's a bit of personal preference. I think Gresham is already a really good forward with quite a bit of potential to become a star.

Not sure why the Saints are talking about him getting more time in the midfield - I think if you have a 40-50 goal small forward on your list, why change how he plays. Similarly to Walters with us. Would much prefer Walters to play as a dedicated small forward than this 50-50 mid/fwd role he's currently doing.

It's a lot about the capacity to rotate small forwards into the midfield and allow mids to move forward for a break I think.

 

[Mat Mann]

its funny cos Milney was criticized for only being a 50 goal small forward.
now people don't want the Prince to rotate through the midfield so he can be a 50 goal small forward.

Gresh is far more than just a forward, coming into his third year and after more time in the middle in his second year, expect to see him make a bigger impact in his third year as a forward/mid rotating with the likes of Stuv, Billings and Kent. Talent to burn, his body just has to mature a bit to allow him more time there

 

[Jeremias]

Ross would be on par with Curnow and Docherty. Steven is head and shoulders above both of them.

There wouldn’t be too many out there taking Ross over either of them.

 

[branedotorg]

Should we start another argument about the XX number of better players Carlton have than Gresham?

bout 20 i reckon

 

[ManOfClay]

bout 20 i reckon

Did I mess up my Roman numerals?

 

[Juddernaut08]

Did I mess up my Roman numerals?

haha moc u are usually a moron but f-ing quality post. ive had a few drinks.

 

[La Dispute]

Ross would be on par with Curnow and Docherty. Steven is head and shoulders above both of them.

There wouldn’t be too many out there taking Ross over either of them.

None of these are very fair comparisons though, as they are all positionally different players.

Cripps is a better inside player than Ross, who's still a good player. Steven is a better outside midfielder than anyone we have currently, though Curnow is a better key forward than any on St Kilda's list. Docherty is a better half-back than any for St Kilda as well. That being said we don't have a small or mid-sized player as good as Billings or Gresham.