Traded Dylan Shiel [traded with future 2nd to Essendon for #9 and future 1st round pick]

Where is Dylan Shiel getting traded?

  • Carlton

    Votes: 182 39.8%
  • Essendon

    Votes: 37 8.1%
  • Hawthorn

    Votes: 146 31.9%
  • St Kilda

    Votes: 71 15.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 21 4.6%

  • Total voters
    457
  • Poll closed .
Jan 7, 2005
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Fatebringer
my absolute favourite part about this whole phony debate about whether or not Hawthorn was Shiel's preferred destination or not (I couldn't care less either way), is that Hawthorn fans who put this out there don't seem to grasp the argument they are actually making.

Let's think about this a bit more clearly. Let's assume what the BF Hawthorn narrative has been is true. Hawthorn was Shiel's preferred destination. For the majority of the year, Hawthorn and Shiel and his management were in discussions about the move. Shiel and management privately made it clear Hawthorn was their preferred destination, and this was what fueled Hawthorn posters confidence all year. Ultimately though, Dodoro blew Hawthorn out of the water with a ludicrous offer that Hawthorn wasn't prepared to match. And in any case, Wingard was who they really wanted anyway.

Assuming that's all true, what it means is actually this:

According to these Hawthorn supporters, the club who apparently always do what it takes to honour their commitments happily ****ed Shiel over by leading him on and making him believe that he was a target, then when it came to the crunch they declined to pay the price. And not only did they decline to do what they needed to, they effectively used Shiel as bait to land their actual preferred target.

Yeah, wow, you really got one over us here Hawks. That's a great bit of business.
 

Alphonse_

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classic.

Melbourne paid "2 first rounders" for Lever. He's done sfa. I don't see anyone ruminating on how badly Melbourne were "fleeced".

i think they paid overs, but they they didn't get 'fleeced' because of their (unexpectedly) high finish (Prelim Final) which pushed their projected draft pick in 2018 (around 10) down the board.

I guess we can argue that the Shiel trade value can also be properly assessed once Essendon's finishing spot in 2019 is known, i am fairly sure that Dodoro really didn't want to cough up ur 1st rounder in 2019 for the trade either, but had no choice in the end. I suppose if The Bombers play finals in 2019 you win the trade, but I guess GWS kept you honest after you guys fleeced them for Devon Smith last year (which i admit to jelly of).
 
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i think they paid overs, but they they didn't get 'fleeced' because of their (unexpectedly) high finish (Prelim Final) which pushed their projected draft pick in 2018 (around 10) down the board.

I guess we can argue that the Shiel trade value can also be properly assessed once Essendon's finishing spot in 2019 is known, i am fairly sure that Dodoro really didn't want to cough up ur 1st rounder in 2019 for the trade either, but had no choice in the end. I suppose if The Bombers play finals in 2019 you win the trade, but I guess GWS kept you honest after you guys fleeced them for Devon Smith last year (which i admit to jelly of).
yeah, that's how negotiation works. You do what you can and the outcome is the outcome.

I personally find it hilarious that Dodoro gets castigated as "hard to deal with"; but then after doing everything they could they paid the price they had to pay to honour the commitment they'd made, and now he's been "fleeced".

Honestly, it's laughable. But not surprising. End of the day Essendon get one of the dream fit players they need and the deal is done. Given the demographics Dylan Shiel is way, way more valuable to us than 2 x first round picks but some people are just not going to get that as on BigFooty draft picks (and youth) are ludicrously over-rated *shrugs*
 

emblurr

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There are negotiations, then there are post nomination negotiations where it gets cranked up another level. If Shiel had nominated Hawthorn the negotiations would have gotten serious because a deal has to get done. The first and second round draft picks and any players that Hawthorn thought they could 'Burton' off to GWS would have come out.
 

DannyJ

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Sep 23, 2005
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The points value arguement is a horrible one. There is a reason clubs get a bunch of picks in the 30s and 40s when they have a quality academy player coming through. The value of points is a rort. 1st rounders are all that matter.

Both Hawthorn and Essendon paid a decent price for Wingard and Shiel.

Pretty much Hawthorn paid 15 and Burton (who I value around pick 15). So two late firsts. Hawks win that handsomely.

Don's paid a top 10 pick and a 2019 1st. I think Bombers win that deal, but if they fire blanks and come bottom 6 it could hurt.


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Bombfire

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The points value arguement is a horrible one. There is a reason clubs get a bunch of picks in the 30s and 40s when they have a quality academy player coming through. The value of points is a rort. 1st rounders are all that matter.

Both Hawthorn and Essendon paid a decent price for Wingard and Shiel.

Pretty much Hawthorn paid 15 and Burton (who I value around pick 15). So two late firsts. Hawks win that handsomely.

Don's paid a top 10 pick and a 2019 1st. I think Bombers win that deal, but if they fire blanks and come bottom 6 it could hurt.


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You forgot the pesky second rounder coming back to Tulla.
 

Ambrosia

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The points value arguement is a horrible one. There is a reason clubs get a bunch of picks in the 30s and 40s when they have a quality academy player coming through. The value of points is a rort. 1st rounders are all that matter.

Both Hawthorn and Essendon paid a decent price for Wingard and Shiel.

Pretty much Hawthorn paid 15 and Burton (who I value around pick 15). So two late firsts. Hawks win that handsomely.

Don's paid a top 10 pick and a 2019 1st. I think Bombers win that deal, but if they fire blanks and come bottom 6 it could hurt.


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I think you're underselling the value of pick 35 in the Wingard deal and the Giants 2019 second rounder in the Shiel deal. Burton is hard to place a value pick wise
 
Mar 17, 2018
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did the Wingard deal cost hawthorn Mosquito? would they have had enough picks to match Essendon otherwise? there must been some very nervous people at hawthorn hoping that doesn't come back to bite them on the arse
 
Oct 6, 2013
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did the Wingard deal cost hawthorn Mosquito? would they have had enough picks to match Essendon otherwise? there must been some very nervous people at hawthorn hoping that doesn't come back to bite them on the arse
It’s just a matter of our talent order. We had quite a few people ahead in our talent order. I imagine Essendon had him in their late 20s or early 30s.
 

DannyJ

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did the Wingard deal cost hawthorn Mosquito? would they have had enough picks to match Essendon otherwise? there must been some very nervous people at hawthorn hoping that doesn't come back to bite them on the arse
Nope. Hawks could have had Mozzy if they wanted. Didnt rate him top 70. Would have matched a bid after their first pick.

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DannyJ

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I think you're underselling the value of pick 35 in the Wingard deal and the Giants 2019 second rounder in the Shiel deal. Burton is hard to place a value pick wise
Very hard to value. Not a top 10 at this stage. Hawks valued their 2019 1st higher due to being a major chip in chasing Coniglio. Burton didn't give them that.

I dont rate late 2nd round picks. 35 isnt much different to 50. Is the 2nd round pick the Giants 2nd rounder? If so itll probably be around 35

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DannyJ

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Where did top 70 come from? Never seen any record where a credible source has suggested where we ranked him.
And I doubt you will see that. We wanted him, but at the right spot. Which in an ideal world was rookie draft.

If he develops extremely well he will make it. Has raw ability

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blitzer

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Very hard to value. Not a top 10 at this stage. Hawks valued their 2019 1st higher due to being a major chip in chasing Coniglio. Burton didn't give them that.

I dont rate late 2nd round picks. 35 isnt much different to 50. Is the 2nd round pick the Giants 2nd rounder? If so itll probably be around 35

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There's a lot of subjectivity to this sort of opinion.

Burton - nobody can really say how much he's truly worth. He was certainly worth more in 2017 than 2018. Port Adelaide may consider him to be worth a top 5 pick. Hell Gold Coast traded pick 2 for Weller. If clubs can convince quality players to come to their club they will do what it takes (within reason) to make it happen. Its only the fans that then argue about the perceived 'value' of the trade. Hawks are predictably talking Burton down now, I wonder what Burton's value would have been last year?

Is there even any evidence that Hawks are chasing Coniglio? Plus the obvious rebuttal, someone else may nab him. There's more than a few clubs out there with bigger war chests ready to splurge. Burton is probably a higher % chance of succeeding than a random 1st rounder.

Late second rounders definitely have plenty of misses but when they hit they can be gold as you can get sliders around that range. Plus in a points based system with live trades in play, decent draft picks can have plenty of value even if you end up trading it.
 
Sep 28, 2007
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Very hard to value. Not a top 10 at this stage. Hawks valued their 2019 1st higher due to being a major chip in chasing Coniglio. Burton didn't give them that.

I dont rate late 2nd round picks. 35 isnt much different to 50. Is the 2nd round pick the Giants 2nd rounder? If so itll probably be around 35

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In the RS discussion, most hawks fans had him at a value somewhere between 10 first rounders, and Superman.
 
Jan 7, 2005
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Is there even any evidence that Hawks are chasing Coniglio? Plus the obvious rebuttal, someone else may nab him. There's more than a few clubs out there with bigger war chests ready to splurge. Burton is probably a higher % chance of succeeding than a random 1st rounder.
the magic inbox no doubt
 

Bombfire

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Very hard to value. Not a top 10 at this stage. Hawks valued their 2019 1st higher due to being a major chip in chasing Coniglio. Burton didn't give them that.

I dont rate late 2nd round picks. 35 isnt much different to 50. Is the 2nd round pick the Giants 2nd rounder? If so itll probably be around 35

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You might think it’s a valuable chip but as Hawthorn allegedly pulled out of the Shiel deal after making a firm undertaking they would settle him into a new home, players like Coniglio will be Hawthorn gun shy.
Get used to the idea that a round 1 pick in the draft will be a round 1 pick. That is all.
 
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