Fourth Test team

[western royboy]

I’d argue that the likes of Jason Sangha, Wil Pucovski, Max Bryant, Jack Edwards are all raw playing domestic cricket at a very young age that have the potential to be great test batsmen when they fully develop.

The future isn’t as bleak as you suggest. There is a lot talent out there.

Lots of talent - always has - not a lot of technique - that’s the problem that I see and it’s the same one that Chris Rogers sees...

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Wayne N Phillips, Jones, Reiffel and Merv all played in Phillips' only hit.

That was rather humorous. Wayne B Phillips (Flipper) knew it wasn't him, but he rang the cricket board to ask when he should turn up for the game. Their response: "You stay away!!!"

 

[HLM*]

Lots of talent - always has - not a lot of technique - that’s the problem that I see and it’s the same one that Chris Rogers sees...

How much of these kids have you watched? Sangha scored a hundred last year against england as an 18 year old. Max Bryant just scored 60 odd against India as a 19 year old. It’s easy to get caught up in the doom and gloom that is Australian cricket. The future is bright I promise you.

 

[Bwillow11]

Lots of talent - always has - not a lot of technique - that’s the problem that I see and it’s the same one that Chris Rogers sees...

Talent is still talent though, if their good enough they will be able to work on technique and therefore do well. Pucovski and Sangha are two high quality batsmen, not sold on Max Bryant who is a bit flashy

 

[western royboy]

How much of these kids have you watched? Sangha scored a hundred last year against england as an 18 year old. Max Bryant just scored 60 odd against India as a 19 year old. It’s easy to get caught up in the doom and gloom that is Australian cricket. The future is bright I promise you.

Went and watched Sangha for myself last year - can play - Puckovski I’m less convinced - he has brilliance but he’s still got a lot of tightening up to do - if the system was working we would have oodles of them - but we don’t and the standard of batting drops every year

 

[Slysh]

Went and watched Sangha for myself last year - can play - Puckovski I’m less convinced - he has brilliance but he’s still got a lot of tightening up to do - if the system was working we would have oodles of them - but we don’t and the standard of batting drops every year

Give the kids time to prove them self, alll sports teams have peaks and troughs. Our full strength team at the moment is not bad and we have some really talented youngsters still coming through that just need time. A rough 6 months and a few games without our two best batsman has caused a massive overreaction to our current team.

 

[western royboy]

Give the kids time to prove them self, alll sports teams have peaks and troughs. Our full strength team at the moment is not bad and we have some really talented youngsters still coming through that just need time. A rough 6 months and a few games without our two best batsman has caused a massive overreaction to our current team.

This is not a new point of view for me - I’ve been playing senior cricket for 30+ years - the standard of batting has been in serious decline at all levels for the last 15. You can’t hope to find young players capable of making it as elite straight away unless they are Ponting like the way things are set up now. There’s just not the depth in the testing grounds for it to happen (Shield / Grade) etc

 

[HLM*]

This is not a new point of view for me - I’ve been playing senior cricket for 30+ years - the standard of batting has been in serious decline at all levels for the last 15. You can’t hope to find young players capable of making it as elite straight away unless they are Ponting like the way things are set up now. There’s just not the depth in the testing grounds for it to happen (Shield / Grade) etc

Even Ponting spent 3 years playing shield cricket before making his test debut and was in and out of the test side in his first 18 months of test cricket. Stars aren’t born overnight.

 

[western royboy]

Even Ponting spent 3 years playing shield cricket before making his test debut and was in and out of the test side in his first 18 months of test cricket. Stars aren’t born overnight.

Look if you don’t like my view that’s fine - Ponting was identified as a 12 year old kid - but I’m not wrong on this - of that I am sure

 

[HLM*]

Look if you don’t like my view that’s fine - Ponting was identified as a 12 year old kid - but I’m not wrong on this - of that I am sure

So based on your 30 years playing in your pub league nobody is able to have an alternative opinion?

We’ve got undeveloped inexperienced kids scoring runs against some of the best test sides in the world. Like I said before we were spoilt in eras gone by and now people think it is our god given right to produce the quality and the quantity that we did in those golden eras, which is the wrong way to think.

 

[eth-dog]

So based on your 30 years playing in your pub league nobody is able to have an alternative opinion?

We’ve got undeveloped inexperienced kids scoring runs against some of the best test sides in the world. Like I said before we were spoilt in eras gone by and now people think it is our god given right to produce the quality and the quantity that we did in those golden eras, which is the wrong way to think.

Western Royboy used to play grade cricket in Melbourne and has some connections quite high up in CA, which he has demonstrated previously (called Haddin as VC for the Ashes 3 months before announcement among other things). I'd take note of what he says if I were you.

 

[Gough]

Look if you don’t like my view that’s fine - Ponting was identified as a 12 year old kid - but I’m not wrong on this - of that I am sure

I remember the buzz when he arrived at the Academy.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Even Ponting spent 3 years playing shield cricket before making his test debut and was in and out of the test side in his first 18 months of test cricket. Stars aren’t born overnight.

No, but he was very much further advanced before he played in the Shield. Players should not be getting Shield games as "raw" players. Even to my uneducated eye players (especially batsmen) are hitting the test squad with flaws that would have been ironed out at club level 20-30 years ago.

 

[bluespooner]

When was the last time 3 'Victorians' played together in a test?

It usually coincides with losses.

No way is Finch a Test batsman.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

No, but he was very much further advanced before he played in the Shield. Players should not be getting Shield games as "raw" players. Even to my uneducated eye players (especially batsmen) are hitting the test squad with flaws that would have been ironed out at club level 20-30 years ago.

One thing that has crept into coaching is the understanding that each player will have 'his way' of doing things.

Chanderpaul will stand front on, Bailey closed off. Lara big backlift, Atherton smaller backlift. Blewett big stride onto the front foot, Sehwag from the crease. Back and across...? But Ponting pulled off the front foot. Martyn very still prior to delivery, Smith huge movement across.

Marshall front on, Thompson side on. McGrath tall at the crease, Malinga slinging. Warne rips them, Kumble bounces them. Ntini no front arm, Kallis strong front arm.

All different, all successful.

Coaches have started to accept that each player is unique and what particular trait(s) they have that may depart from the textbook are not necessarily flaws that need to be ironed out. The cookie-cutter approach has gone. They might be the thing that makes the player who they are. Lucky no one stopped Mark Waugh flicking across the line. Or told Gilchrist to put his head down. Or told McGrath that he needed to be able to bowl an outswinger.

HOWEVER

I do wonder at times if coaches are struggling to discern between what are 'uniqueness traits' and what are weaknesses that will be exploited.

 

[james brayshaw]

Lots of talent - always has - not a lot of technique - that’s the problem that I see and it’s the same one that Chris Rogers sees...

What did you think of Steve Smiths technique when he was coming through, did you think he could make it?

 

[james brayshaw]

Western Royboy used to play grade cricket in Melbourne and has some connections quite high up in CA, which he has demonstrated previously (called Haddin as VC for the Ashes 3 months before announcement among other things). I'd take note of what he says if I were you.

I know some deadset morons who played grade cricket, I'm not saying Western Royboy is one but it doesnt mean his opiniion can't be wrong.

 

[Van_Dyke]

Let's hope Harris has a better career than Bobby hey.

I mean, if he has innings like Bob Quiney’s 9, we have quite the player

 

[carnthemlions]

Stats tell you he's not a Test bat, First class stats tell you he's not a first class bat, go watch him play red ball cricket - when I have it screams "not a test bat". For all of the rubbish overs he bowls he's just got to be a better bat than he is at he present time. Langer is loyal to his players but he's no fool, his batting is thin, on experience and potentially technical ability, he needs every out and out bat that he can get.

I completely agree, I've been a member of the no Marshes club for years. Sean you can kinda justify at times but Mitch is still a mess technically. I was just wondering how Langer and the selectors can justify going from positioning him as a key player to dropping him in such a short period of time, it makes no sense.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

I completely agree, I've been a member of the no Marshes club for years. Sean you can kinda justify at times but Mitch is still a mess technically. I was just wondering how Langer and the selectors can justify going from positioning him as a key player to dropping him in such a short period of time, it makes no sense.

Maybe it was just panic when they watched him in the nets? Could be.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

It was very interesting listening to Chris Rogers this morning on the SEN. He's got one of the best cricketing brains I've heard. I feel a lot more confident with him working with the next generation at the centre of excellence and we do have some real quality coming through the younger generation.

It was also interesting hearing him speak about Peter Handscomb, who he has done a fair bit of work with of late. You would think he's be telling us he's 100% back on track and ready to go but he was very honest. He seems to think he's still almost 2 years off getting everything right and being a quality international batsman.

Rogers is so old school, you are supposed to big note everything now regardless of what you really see or know. Well done him.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

It was very interesting listening to Chris Rogers this morning on the SEN. He's got one of the best cricketing brains I've heard. I feel a lot more confident with him working with the next generation at the centre of excellence and we do have some real quality coming through the younger generation.

It was also interesting hearing him speak about Peter Handscomb, who he has done a fair bit of work with of late. You would think he's be telling us he's 100% back on track and ready to go but he was very honest. He seems to think he's still almost 2 years off getting everything right and being a quality international batsman.

CA have got an Under 17 team playing in the Under 19 championships at the moment. Being coached by Chris Rogers, Ryan Harris and Mitchell Johnson. Fair contingent for the kids to learn from!

 

[FRUMPY]

When was the last time 3 'Victorians' played together in a test?

When was the last time each state was represented?

NSW - 4 (low for them)
VIC - 3 (high for them and all batsmen wtf?)
SA - Head
WA - Marsh
TAS - Paine
QLD - Ussie

 

[The Swans Blog]

No, you're on the wrong tram - head over to the thread 'Development of Batsmen' then come back to me in a week or so. Then go and stand behind a net that Starc and co bowl in and address your comments about our bowling attack - here's a tip - they're world class.

No one argues that they're not world class, but they aren't close to the best in the world. Hazlewood is easily the best pace bowler, while Lyon is arguably the best of the squad. It's a good bowling attack, but most of the test nations have one or two better bowlers. Anderson and Steyn at their ripe old ages are still better bowlers than our pace attack, and they're borderline geriatric.

Bowling potatoes at 145km/h is still a ******* potato. There's more to the art of bowling than chucking down 3 bouncers an over and the occasional wide of off yorker.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I do wonder at times if coaches are struggling to discern between what are 'uniqueness traits' and what are weaknesses that will be exploited.

It's an interesting one. I recall Ian Chappell saying that his brother Greg had this shot where he whipped the ball away behind square and just about every coach he had from schoolboys upwards tried to get him to eliminate the shot from his arsenal ....... until they realised how many runs he was making with it.

I think it's true that many of the game's great players had unique aspects to their game which came naturally to them, but I think it's fair to suggest the average trundler needs all the help they can get, and developing a good solid defence, forward and backward, (a sound technique) will help them get the most out of their cricket.

Took me a lot of heartbreak trying to copy my heroes before I realised this.