Australia v India, 1st Test at Adelaide Oval Dec 6-10.

[DaRick]

Wade has never been in better form and there is no other batsman in the country that is not in the test side that has scored more runs than him in shield cricket. In the last 12 months he’s scored over 1000 runs. Seven 50’s and four 100’s including a century in last years shield final. This season he has come out to bat in the midst of a 4 wicket collapse 6 times and has scored four 50’s guiding his side to a respectable score before running out of batting partners. His form now is far more relevant than his failures as long as 6 years ago.

The Australian side is screaming for somebody that values his wicket, can dig in and stem the flow of wickets, and can bat with the tail. There’s only 2 players in our current test side with more centuries at test level than Wade. Bring in a bloke who’s got experience at test level, is a fighter and is in the form of his life. Sounds pretty simple to me.

You made a fairly persuasive case to re-select Wade.

But is Ashwin's good record against him a concern?

 

[damochandler]

Wade has never been in better form and there is no other batsman in the country that is not in the test side that has scored more runs than him in shield cricket. In the last 12 months he’s scored over 1000 runs. Seven 50’s and four 100’s including a century in last years shield final. This season he has come out to bat in the midst of a 4 wicket collapse 6 times and has scored four 50’s guiding his side to a respectable score before running out of batting partners. His form now is far more relevant than his failures as long as 6 years ago.

The Australian side is screaming for somebody that values his wicket, can dig in and stem the flow of wickets, and can bat with the tail. There’s only 2 players in our current test side with more centuries at test level than Wade. Bring in a bloke who’s got experience at test level, is a fighter and is in the form of his life. Sounds pretty simple to me.

It’s a shame renshaw is horribly out of form

 

[Gavin Excell]

Marshs dismissal should be career ending.

Unless he comes out bigtime second innings he wont play again

 

[damochandler]

Once again the batters undo the bowlers good work

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Marshs dismissal should be career ending.

Unless he comes out bigtime second innings he wont play again

I thought the UAE tour would have been but his last name is Marsh...

 

[HLM*]

You made a fairly persuasive case to re-select Wade.

But is Ashwin's good record against him a concern?

Mohammed Hafeez has a great record against Steve Smith. Do we sit him out of tests against Pakistan to mitigate the one sided match up?

Ridiculous suggestion.

 

[DaRick]

Mohammed Hafeez has a great record against Steve Smith. Do we sit him out of tests against Pakistan to mitigate the one sided match up?

Ridiculous suggestion.

What in heaven's name are you talking about? ODI cricket? How does that have any real bearing on this discussion?

Even if you were right, Ashwin is a much better bowler than Hafeez and Wade is a far worse batsman than Smith.

The question (not suggestion) is not ridiculous in the slightest. Look at how Shaun Marsh has fared versus said bowler after a good Shield run.

 

[PhatBoy]

Perfectly summed up. Smiths test avaerage of 61 and Kohlis record in ODI and T20s backs up your case.
Their win loss draw records as captains are similar as well. Also their batting averages as captains says they’ve stepped up; Smith 70 and Kohli 65

Agreed. The only knock I could possibly come up with on smith - and to be honest it’s not really a knock it’s just being picky - his home tracks where he’s averaged an incredible 77 or something for most of his career, have probably been by and large the flattest in the world during that time. Kohli gets to bat in some absolute roads as well but India probably throws up more minefields than Australia. Still think smith has been comfortably better in tests though.

 

[Coasters7]

Need a Pujara/Ashwin like partnership from these two.. also why we shouldn’t be accepting things like “I would’ve taken 9/250 at the start of the day” because that’s bull****. Disciplined bowling and they’re all out for 150-180, even taking that review.. all out 200ish and we’d be taking a lead/breaking even. Something that is 100% needed given we are batting last. Those 50 extra runs will come back to haunt us in a big way. Forget complaining about our batting.. we all know it’s s**t. But there’s been big moments in this game where we could be on top even with said batting, but we haven’t taken them , and India (mostly Pujara), have.

 

[HLM*]

What in heaven's name are you talking about? ODI cricket? How does that have any real bearing on this discussion?

Even if you were right, Ashwin is a much better bowler than Hafeez and Wade is a far worse batsman than Smith.

The question is not ridiculous in the slightest. Look at how Shaun Marsh has fared versus said bowler after a good Shield run.

Ashwin has a great record against Warner. Do we sit Warner out of this series if he wasn’t suspended because of his lopsided match up with him?

Don’t use Marsh’s dismissal today as some form of justification to your argument. The bloke is in the middle of the worst run of form from any Australian batsman since the 18th century. If Ashwin doesn’t dismiss him cheaply somebody else does.

 

[DaRick]

Ashwin has a great record against Warner. Do we sit Warner out of this series if he wasn’t suspended because of his lopsided match up with him?

Warner's an opener though, plus he has a much better Test record than the players under discussion. By the time Ashwin dismissed him he would have at least scored some runs. That's different from facing him first up.

Don’t use Marsh’s dismissal today as some form of justification to your argument. The bloke is in the middle of the worst run of form from any Australian batsman since the 18th century. If Ashwin doesn’t dismiss him cheaply somebody else does.

How about all of his other dismissals versus Ashwin then?

 

[HLM*]

Warner's an opener though, plus he has a much better Test record than the players under discussion. By the time Ashwin dismissed him he would have at least scored some runs. That's different from facing him first up.



How about all of his other dismissals versus Ashwin then?

Because it’s not as if India have never opened the bowling with Ashwin before? He dismissed Warner multiple times the last time we played India in a series opening the bowling.

Anyway, it is ridiculous to be considering dropping players purely based on lopsided records against individual opposition players.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

The issue is that Australia cannot hold our players to the Golden Age standards. It is not realistic to expect batsmen to be averaging 50+ at 30 with our current reality, and there is no point rushing younger players development (ie; selecting Pucovski) in an unrealistic attempt to reach that standard. Wade would be a player you'd put a line through if it was 2008, but at the moment I think he is on the table, despite the legitimate arguments against him.

I agree, it’s unfair to compare them or anyone to those teams. I only brought it up as the comparison between those guys getting dropped and coming back are very different to Wade being dropped and coming back again. The only real comparison I can find with Wade coming back now is Shaun Marsh but I’m sure they’re are others.

Despite his form, I just can’t justify how bringing him back now is a good decision. We’ve seen enough of him now to know what to expect of him, which is to average between 20 and 30 and make some questionable decisions behind the stumps. He’s dominated the Shield before and it hasn’t translated.

If we’re bringing guys back I’d rather see Burns or Maxwell get another opportunity. Patterson is consistently one of top runscorers in tournament and would probably be the best chance of the untried blokes. Agree that it’s not worth bringing in young players just for being young but there has got to be a middle ground between that and bringing someone back who has played 25 games and hasn’t shown enough.

 

[HBF]

It's the kind of situation where you need the captain to stick a rocket up the bowlers. Have to bowl like we're defending a 120 total to have a chance.

If we're chasing anymore than 200 it will be bloody tough. We need to get as close to 250 in this innings to be any chance.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Because it’s not as if India have never opened the bowling with Ashwin before? He dismissed Warner multiple times the last time we played India in a series opening the bowling.

Anyway, it is ridiculous to be considering dropping players purely based on lopsided records against individual opposition players.

It’s not that ridiculous to choose your team based around the weapons your opponent has. Australia selected a heap of right handers in the 2013/14 Ashes to try and negate Graeme Swann.

 

[HBF]

Marshs dismissal should be career ending.

Unless he comes out bigtime second innings he wont play again

How many times have we all said something similar on this forum. He's had a charmed run thats for sure.

 

[Wolfs]

My thoughts on both days since I'm stuck at work.

- Finch should have learned from the Indians about not to chase a full ball.
- Ashwin has surprised me so far with his bowling.
- Handscomb looks a lot better than before but I would have had Mitch still over him.
- Rohit Sharma is a spud. Vilhari should have played over him.
- India is really missing Saha. A great keeper with a solid mentality to stay in.
- Ishant bowling well isnt' surprising. He has been killing it in SA and Eng.
- lol poor Shaun. That was a s**t ball.

 

[DaRick]

Because it’s not as if India have never opened the bowling with Ashwin before? He dismissed Warner multiple times the last time we played India in a series opening the bowling.

Ashwin actually only opened the bowling in the first Test in 2017. Sharma/Yadav/Kumar opened the bowling otherwise.

Anyway, it is ridiculous to be considering dropping players purely based on poor lopsided records against individual opposition players.

Yeah, that's a fair enough point. In Marsh's case it would be that issue combined with general poor long-term Test form which sees him booted.

Anyway, my point was less about Wade's individual record versus Ashwin as it was that Ashwin is an off-spinner and if the deck isn't turning greatly off-spinners are more effective against left-handers than right-handers. All three of Ashwin's dismissals today were left-handers.

I've already admitted that at face value selecting Wade is reasonable. The question is whether or not he would struggle starting against Ashwin's off-spin on account of his left-handedness.

 

[HLM*]

It’s not that ridiculous to choose your team based around the weapons your opponent has. Australia selected a heap of right handers in the 2013/14 Ashes to try and negate Graeme Swann.

Other factors were involved in selecting those batsmen though and that is the point I am trying to make. To isolate a batsmen’s record against a particular bowler and then to either select or drop them based purely off that is ridiculous.

 

[Monocle]

Got home from work checked out the days play....... sigh....... alas....... as per normal........ batsmen once again let the team down, bowlers did their bit yesterday , but its the same old same old..... batsmen letting the country down..... should not really be surprised .......Finch as a Test Match Opener FFS.

 

[STFU Donnie]

My conspiracy theory is that CA will keep Finch as he's the biggest crowd draw they have at the moment

It ain't working!

 

[Kram]

Marshs dismissal should be career ending.

Unless he comes out bigtime second innings he wont play again

Let's bone Handscomb as well on the back of his fantastically idiotic dismissal.

 

[STFU Donnie]

I think Shaun Tait was a metal listener.

Given how soft he ultimately proved to be, I'm betting his iPod is stacked with Perry Como and the like.

 

[DaRick]

Let's bone Handscomb as well on the back of his fantastically idiotic dismissal.

I suppose that the problem with punting people based on dumb dismissals is that the way we're going you would have to change at least half of the Top 6 every Test.

 

[HLM*]

Let's bone Handscomb for good as well on the back of his fantastically idiotic dismissal.

Despite the shot that he got out to he looked really good. There’s potential there at the very least.