Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[M_I_G]

hate hearing and reading the media about who we will pick to replace docherty..as if someone who has been passed over by all clubs is going to fill that role goddard could play some role but dont see him being what we want, plus the whole pretzel example of his demeanor..dont get me wrong there were times i wanted someone like him to give the group a rocket but I dunno if its really what we need with our group (?)

If the club do decide to pick someone up before the season starts i'd much prefer they take a chance on someone like gibbons, no he wont take dochs role, doesnt even play the same role, but i'd be happy for us to take a punt.. Even if every club has passed up on those available
maybe we just hold it for mid year and see who is having a freak/breakout year

 

[TerryWallet]

Newman gets his chance now with Williamson on the other flank.
J.Silvagni could be trialled.
B.Goddard can GAGF ...

I'd rather Bootsma back than B.Goddard. Probably rather Angwin too. Definately rather Karl Norman and Hotton back. Maybe even Fev...even in his current shape.

Prolly prefer Jack Anthony too. I'd play Tyrone off the backflank before B.Goddard too.

I'd prolly suit up Andy Maher before him too.

 

[rog1995]

Goddard would. He was desperate to join another club and felt he had a lot more to give. In fact he’d hands down walk straight into our best 22 and is the only one left out there who would. May have mentally moved on now after his retirement party tho!

If I had to choose now though I think I’d lean towards giving Jed Lamb a reprieve personally, if not Goddard. If things go to s**t like this year at least we know we can put him in and he can usually do his role adequately - unlike the O Shea/Shaw types.

No way to Goddard. Our backline is as slow as it can get. We don't have any players that can break the lines. Come to think of it we don't have any small lock down defenders either. It's been our weakness for years and still hasn't been addressed. We've now lost Doc and Bryne and only bought in Newman..

 

[Gethelred]

It’s his organisational abilities and his decision making and leadership that we will most miss not all the other things, there is no replacing Doc in our side he is our defence, he makes it work.

The pessimistic way of looking at things. I don't quite disagree with you here.

He runs our zone, probably because he was the only one who fully understood it at the end of 2017. I unequivocally agree that, in his absence last year, the zone simply did not function as intended (the majority of that was due to the incredible amount of absences in the back six as the season progressed) but by now, you have a number of players who really are a) smart enough and b) capable enough to run the zone the same way or better than he did in Weitering, Plowman, Simpson.

However, don't go too far. This is an astute post, given that you're right that these are the aspects Doc possesses that we'll miss most.

 

[thylacine60]

I'd rather Bootsma back than B.Goddard. Probably rather Angwin too. Definately rather Karl Norman and Hotton back. Maybe even Fev...even in his current shape.

Prolly prefer Jack Anthony too. I'd play Tyrone off the backflank before B.Goddard too.

I'd prolly suit up Andy Maher before him too.

your best effort yet

 

[jpfalvo]

The pessimistic way of looking at things. I don't quite disagree with you here.

He runs our zone, probably because he was the only one who fully understood it at the end of 2017. I unequivocally agree that, in his absence last year, the zone simply did not function as intended (the majority of that was due to the incredible amount of absences in the back six as the season progressed) but by now, you have a number of players who really are a) smart enough and b) capable enough to run the zone the same way or better than he did in Weitering, Plowman, Simpson.

However, don't go too far. This is an astute post, given that you're right that these are the aspects Doc possesses that we'll miss most.

Our zone fell apart as early as round 2 v Gold Coast. Our defence with exception of docherty was intact.

In addition, Paul Roos highlighted the zonal issues we had in the On The Couch episode following that shocking loss to Gold Coast.

Only player missing was the late Kreuzer out, replaced by Polson.

Difficult to blame injuries when it fell apart so early on before our back 6 was hit as you say.

In addition, I agree with you about the importance of Docherty to making the zone work and hence how difficult he would be to replace. It's a real concern.

Hence why a Goddard type would be ideal. Directive, vocal and durable. Cant just have a bunch of kids, we need real steps forward and some winning momentum

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

 

[thylacine60]

we don't "just have a bunch of kids".........seriously.........what is with this floggard adulation in this place of late - are we not our own club? is whatever it takes our new mission statement? where have I heard that before? get a grip and move on from this ****ed up fantasy......

 

[Blue and Blue]

Our zone fell apart as early as round 2 v Gold Coast. Our defence with exception of docherty was intact.

In addition, Paul Roos highlighted the zonal issues we had in the On The Couch episode following that shocking loss to Gold Coast.

Only player missing was the late Kreuzer out, replaced by Polson.

Difficult to blame injuries when it fell apart so early on before our back 6 was hit as you say.

In addition, I agree with you about the importance of Docherty to making the zone work and hence how difficult he would be to replace. It's a real concern.

Hence why a Goddard type would be ideal. Directive, vocal and durable. Cant just have a bunch of kids, we need real steps forward and some winning momentum

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

I think they strolled out after Richmond thinking they had arrived and played lazy footy. And no amount of zone can fix that. Then the injury curse gradually depleted the side and robbed us of any continuity in which to adress the problems. It really was like bailing out a sinking ship for a long time. All that with an over abundance of youth still learning the caper.
And like it or not I think we missed Gibbs more than Doc.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

If anyone heard the interview with B Goddard on GUES SEN this arvo, it would be remote at best we'll be listing him.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/12/11/goddard-set-to-pursue-coaching-or-general-manager-role/

 

[Gethelred]

Our zone fell apart as early as round 2 v Gold Coast. Our defence with exception of docherty was intact.

In addition, Paul Roos highlighted the zonal issues we had in the On The Couch episode following that shocking loss to Gold Coast.

Only player missing was the late Kreuzer out, replaced by Polson.

Difficult to blame injuries when it fell apart so early on before our back 6 was hit as you say.

In addition, I agree with you about the importance of Docherty to making the zone work and hence how difficult he would be to replace. It's a real concern.

Hence why a Goddard type would be ideal. Directive, vocal and durable. Cant just have a bunch of kids, we need real steps forward and some winning momentum

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

In round 2, GC laid 93 tackles, where during the year they averaged 69; that, alone, tells you of the effort they put into that game. Our midfield - as we well know - was thin, and we suffered injuries to Marchbank and one other player - also in the backline, as I recall - during the game. The majority of our backline issues last season can be attributed to turnovers - which I would like someone with access to Champion Data's premium data set to confirm for me, if you could - occurring under pressure, leaving our back six out of position, because zones positionally leave players looser than they would be when playing one on one. It's part of why it genuinely shits me when I hear/read a perspective detailing why our zone doesn't work, why don't we play one on one footy; everyone plays zones, but everyone doesn't suffer turnovers at the rate we did last year.

I don't mind us getting Hugh, and getting in Newman was genuinely a terrific move, but if our midfield is better this year, there will be less entries ergo our talls will be better able to intercept the ball ergo our defense/zone will seem better able to take the ball and dispose to advantage. The majority of our problems last year were midfield based.

 

[Blue and Blue]

In round 2, GC laid 93 tackles, where during the year they averaged 69; that, alone, tells you of the effort they put into that game. Our midfield - as we well know - was thin, and we suffered injuries to Marchbank and one other player - also in the backline, as I recall - during the game. The majority of our backline issues last season can be attributed to turnovers - which I would like someone with access to Champion Data's premium data set to confirm for me, if you could - occurring under pressure, leaving our back six out of position, because zones positionally leave players looser than they would be when playing one on one. It's part of why it genuinely shits me when I hear/read a perspective detailing why our zone doesn't work, why don't we play one on one footy; everyone plays zones, but everyone doesn't suffer turnovers at the rate we did last year.

I don't mind us getting Hugh, and getting in Newman was genuinely a terrific move, but if our midfield is better this year, there will be less entries ergo our talls will be better able to intercept the ball ergo our defense/zone will seem better able to take the ball and dispose to advantage. The majority of our problems last year were midfield based.

It will stay in our great forward line..the back six wil be starved for a touch......

 

[Blue and Blue]

If anyone heard the interview with B Goddard on GUES SEN this arvo, it would be remote at best we'll be listing him.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/12/11/goddard-set-to-pursue-coaching-or-general-manager-role/

it was a toss up between listening to that flog and running a cheese grater over my fingers..ouch ouch ..typing really hurts

 

[JustaBattler]

No way to Goddard. Our backline is as slow as it can get. We don't have any players that can break the lines. Come to think of it we don't have any small lock down defenders either. It's been our weakness for years and still hasn't been addressed. We've now lost Doc and Bryne and only bought in Newman..

The weakest thing is the logic you've presented in the post - Geelong played 6 talls for ten years in defence and did quite well out of it.
What is this 'lock down' small defender is it the twin brother of the lock down small forward?

ridiculous memes perpetuate forums at times - no need to carry such silly baggage based on nothing except unchallenged accepted wisdoms - nonsense.

Small blokes find it hard to outmark taller blokes- it is about skill not about size. All things being equal - the bigger bloke always beats the smaller bloke in every sport ever invented and always will - for a really really good reason - the skinny runt is just a skinny runt - meat.

 

[Jeremias]

This article suggests we will look to fill both spots available to us before the start of next season, but will not bring in mature talent, nor will it necessarily be a half back, given we are confident Newman, Williamson and Walsh can fill the void there.

Published by the HS and without any official quote from the club, so take it with a grain of salt, but it is interesting regardless.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...y/news-story/a6c2bbc86f1d87b7b43b57995b664a7b

Carlton have ruled out recruiting a mature-age replacement for Sam Docherty and are confident the injured co-captain’s spot can be filled internally.

The club will fill the two vacant positions on its list under new rules, but won’t be calling on veterans such as Brendon Goddard, Kyle Cheney or Bernie Vince.

While Carlton has until March 15 to make further signings, it’s understood the club will look to move quickly to maximise preparation time.

 

[Blue and Blue]

All things being equal - the bigger bloke always beats the smaller bloke in every sport ever invented and always will - for a really really good reason - the skinny runt is just a skinny runt - meat.

Ken Hunter is the exception...but yeah a really incisive post. As for a small lock down defender..I am baffled as to what that means

 

[Metalcrusher]

I'd rather Bootsma back than B.Goddard. Probably rather Angwin too. Definately rather Karl Norman and Hotton back. Maybe even Fev...even in his current shape.

Prolly prefer Jack Anthony too. I'd play Tyrone off the backflank before B.Goddard too.

I'd prolly suit up Andy Maher before him too.

Club has moved forward from those types ….

 

[JustaBattler]

In round 2, GC laid 93 tackles, where during the year they averaged 69; that, alone, tells you of the effort they put into that game. Our midfield - as we well know - was thin, and we suffered injuries to Marchbank and one other player - also in the backline, as I recall - during the game. The majority of our backline issues last season can be attributed to turnovers - which I would like someone with access to Champion Data's premium data set to confirm for me, if you could - occurring under pressure, leaving our back six out of position, because zones positionally leave players looser than they would be when playing one on one. It's part of why it genuinely shits me when I hear/read a perspective detailing why our zone doesn't work, why don't we play one on one footy; everyone plays zones, but everyone doesn't suffer turnovers at the rate we did last year.

I don't mind us getting Hugh, and getting in Newman was genuinely a terrific move, but if our midfield is better this year, there will be less entries ergo our talls will be better able to intercept the ball ergo our defense/zone will seem better able to take the ball and dispose to advantage. The majority of our problems last year were midfield based.

If you lose between the arcs - you generally lose the game - if you get thrashed between the arcs you generally get thrashed....if you are losing between teh arcs and dont have a back six or a front six- you generally get thrashed....

Bolton has a better midfield which will get better as the year progresses and options down back and up front he didnt have last year. Docherty is gone - was always a risk coming back after an ACL - and will be again if/when he comes back from this second one.

Club needs to move on real fast.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

we don't "just have a bunch of kids".........seriously.........what is with this floggard adulation in this place of late - are we not our own club? is whatever it takes our new mission statement? where have I heard that before? get a grip and move on from this ****** up fantasy......

Not sure there's been any adulation whatsoever, just people trying to be pragmatic in the face of a problem that seriously needs addressing. Although there's plenty of "positive" posts suggesting that Williamson (also injured for the entirety of 2018), LOB (a small wingman) and Newman (solid yet unproven player) will just slot in and take over Doc's role, so maybe we'll be fine.

 

[smashbox gill]

B: Plowman Jones Newman
HB: Marchbank Weitering Simpson

With Willo, Daisy, Cunners also options.

Not a bad backline with Doch going down. Newman is a fantastic pick up now!

The return of Dale Amos as backline coach is also a positive.

 

[Stamos]

Our zone fell apart as early as round 2 v Gold Coast. Our defence with exception of docherty was intact.

In addition, Paul Roos highlighted the zonal issues we had in the On The Couch episode following that shocking loss to Gold Coast.

Only player missing was the late Kreuzer out, replaced by Polson.

Difficult to blame injuries when it fell apart so early on before our back 6 was hit as you say.

???
Docherty and Williamson missing that game (and Kreuzer and Kennedy from the week before), Byrne injured during the game and Weitering played in the forwardline.

A terrible performance (our worst under Bolton), and no excuses for it, but it was not an intact back 6.

 

[Arr0w]

2018 we finished so poorly people were asking how we got two wins....[was at suns game-they were terrible and we played ok]
i also expect improvement...however if you upgrade our stats 10 percent it may still not have us in the ball park..
we were playing guys like Pickett,Polson,Kerr,and many other drafts as well who just did not contribute.........i think they put too much out there at times
2018 was a disgrace..
Bolton would not want to turn in another similar performance so i think he will put together a better team this year.

Dragged it over to List Management CB

I think we are much better placed 12 months on for a number of reasons

• Out: Alex Silvagni, Sam Rowe, Matthew Wright, Matt Shaw, Aaron Mullet, Cameron O'Shea, Jed Lamb, Sam Kerridge, Nick Graham, Ciaran Byrne, Jesse Glass-McCasker, Cillian McDaid

• In: Alex Fasolo, Nic Newman, Tomas Bugg, Mitch McGovern, Hugh Goddard, Matthew Owies, Will Setterfield, Liam Stocker, Ben Silvagni, Sam Walsh, Finbar O'Dwyer

While we have lost some handy backups in Rowe and ASOS, Wright, none of the outs had any further upside. Even though I rated Byrne, he struggled to stay on the park. The only guy I would reconsider for another year, would be Lamb. When you compare the replacements, the senior players are of better quality and the youth has more upside, with a guy like Walsh, who will have some sort of impact from day one, despite being a few years off from the final product

Then you have the extra games we have put into the previous 3 years of draftees, where you will see some vast improvements in some of these players, while some will have a slower burn. Some may not make it

The gameplan changed considerably, at times I was critical of how many attacking layers we added so quickly, but this too will fast track the side's development, from being in-games, to winning more games through this 2nd phase (3 years)

Now, none of this may result in a dramatic upturn in wins in 2019, but IMO, we will be more competitive, consistent, for longer, resulting in more wins, perhaps similar to 2016. That is a pretty decent springboard for the future

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

I'd rather Bootsma back than B.Goddard. Probably rather Angwin too. Definately rather Karl Norman and Hotton back. Maybe even Fev...even in his current shape.

Prolly prefer Jack Anthony too. I'd play Tyrone off the backflank before B.Goddard too.

I'd prolly suit up Andy Maher before him too.

What about asking SOS to pull the boots back on..

 

[Opine]

Would rather we use the 2 spots to fill other positions. A small forward prospect would be handy

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Would rather we use the 2 spots to fill other positions. A small forward prospect would be handy

We’ve got small forward prospects, another prospect adds less to our list than another midfield, flanker or kpp prospect does. We’re still in the stage of looking for players in positions that have greatest influence on a match result. Small forwards (arguably) have some of the lowest impact.

 

[Opine]

We’ve got small forward prospects, another prospect adds less to our list than another midfield, flanker or kpp prospect does. We’re still in the stage of looking for players in positions that have greatest influence on a match result. Small forwards (arguably) have some of the lowest impact.

Ok fair enough; you make a good point
midfield or true hff











and a small forward