Free Agent # 6: Joe Daniher (part 1)

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One of my mates who is not an Essendon supporter said Joe Daniher is a good pack mark but other than one good year he is extremely over-rated.
He is a bit of a stats nut and has emailed me Joe's stats for 2017, and his stats without 2017. He argues he's not even in the best 10 forwards in the comp and I must say - looking at the stats he has got a very valid argument.....

Some quick stats for Joe Daniher in 2017;-

games - 23, ave disposals - 15.3, marks - 6.7, goals - 2.8, tackles - 1.4
Joe kicked 65 goals that year (3rd in coleman), was 6th in comp marks inside 50, and 7th in comp total contested marks

Joe Daniher without 2017

games - 77, ave disposals - 11.8, marks - 5.6, goals - 1.5, tackles - 1.2


I know I am guilty of man love for this bloke - but I am starting to wonder are we all over-rating him a bit?
 
vass44 said:
One of my mates who is not an Essendon supporter said Joe Daniher is a good pack mark but other than one good year he is extremely over-rated.
He is a bit of a stats nut and has emailed me Joe's stats for 2017, and his stats without 2017. He argues he's not even in the best 10 forwards in the comp and I must say - looking at the stats he has got a very valid argument.....

Some quick stats for Joe Daniher in 2017;-

games - 23, ave disposals - 15.3, marks - 6.7, goals - 2.8, tackles - 1.4
Joe kicked 65 goals that year (3rd in coleman), was 6th in comp marks inside 50, and 7th in comp total contested marks

Joe Daniher without 2017

games - 77, ave disposals - 11.8, marks - 5.6, goals - 1.5, tackles - 1.2


I know I am guilty of man love for this bloke - but I am starting to wonder are we all over-rating him a bit?
Click to expand...
Yeah take away his break out year and only leave his development years + injured year. We really didn’t have a midfield in 2016/2015.

It’s like taking away De Goey’s 2018 year if he is injured next year.
 
vass44 said:
One of my mates who is not an Essendon supporter said Joe Daniher is a good pack mark but other than one good year he is extremely over-rated.
He is a bit of a stats nut and has emailed me Joe's stats for 2017, and his stats without 2017. He argues he's not even in the best 10 forwards in the comp and I must say - looking at the stats he has got a very valid argument.....

Some quick stats for Joe Daniher in 2017;-

games - 23, ave disposals - 15.3, marks - 6.7, goals - 2.8, tackles - 1.4
Joe kicked 65 goals that year (3rd in coleman), was 6th in comp marks inside 50, and 7th in comp total contested marks

Joe Daniher without 2017

games - 77, ave disposals - 11.8, marks - 5.6, goals - 1.5, tackles - 1.2


I know I am guilty of man love for this bloke - but I am starting to wonder are we all over-rating him a bit?
Click to expand...

Wasn’t he like 19 years old in 2016? Jeebus mate your friend has done a number on you
 
vass44 said:
One of my mates who is not an Essendon supporter said Joe Daniher is a good pack mark but other than one good year he is extremely over-rated.
He is a bit of a stats nut and has emailed me Joe's stats for 2017, and his stats without 2017. He argues he's not even in the best 10 forwards in the comp and I must say - looking at the stats he has got a very valid argument.....

Some quick stats for Joe Daniher in 2017;-

games - 23, ave disposals - 15.3, marks - 6.7, goals - 2.8, tackles - 1.4
Joe kicked 65 goals that year (3rd in coleman), was 6th in comp marks inside 50, and 7th in comp total contested marks

Joe Daniher without 2017

games - 77, ave disposals - 11.8, marks - 5.6, goals - 1.5, tackles - 1.2


I know I am guilty of man love for this bloke - but I am starting to wonder are we all over-rating him a bit?
Click to expand...
Your mate might be a stats nut, but he doesn't understand football very well.
 
He is no certainty for round one.
 
vass44 said:
One of my mates who is not an Essendon supporter said Joe Daniher is a good pack mark but other than one good year he is extremely over-rated.
He is a bit of a stats nut and has emailed me Joe's stats for 2017, and his stats without 2017. He argues he's not even in the best 10 forwards in the comp and I must say - looking at the stats he has got a very valid argument.....

Some quick stats for Joe Daniher in 2017;-

games - 23, ave disposals - 15.3, marks - 6.7, goals - 2.8, tackles - 1.4
Joe kicked 65 goals that year (3rd in coleman), was 6th in comp marks inside 50, and 7th in comp total contested marks

Joe Daniher without 2017

games - 77, ave disposals - 11.8, marks - 5.6, goals - 1.5, tackles - 1.2


I know I am guilty of man love for this bloke - but I am starting to wonder are we all over-rating him a bit?
Click to expand...

I think he's 2016 year is very underrated. He performed extremely well in a side that had very low amount and poor quality inside 50 .
 

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Ambrosia said:
Has he had a setback?
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The club is taking a more conservative approach with him. I'm not sure whether it is a set-back or not.
 
DERO said:
The club is taking a more conservative approach with him. I'm not sure whether it is a set-back or not.
Click to expand...

And yet they wouldnt rule him out late season, original talk of 4 weeks, played him for 7 weeks even though he was gone.
This whole thing feels massively mishandled with our most important player.
 
Mercurial89 said:
And yet they wouldnt rule him out late season, original talk of 4 weeks, played him for 7 weeks even though he was gone.
This whole thing feels massively mishandled with our most important player.
Click to expand...
I think that is pretty fair to say. I do wonder though how much of it can be put down to Joe wanting to push through to help the team and how much of it is the failure to accurately diagnose and treat the issue. Apparently playing through has made the issue worse.
 
What I don't understand with this whole debacle is regardless of how much discomfort Daniher was feeling and whether or not he could have played through the injury they knew he had OP. What was their long term plan? Daniher to magically get better without the required rest?
 
DERO said:
I think that is pretty fair to say. I do wonder though how much of it can be put down to Joe wanting to push through to help the team and how much of it is the failure to accurately diagnose and treat the issue. Apparently playing through has made the issue worse.
Click to expand...

Seems like the mistake that should see heads role to me .
 
Ambrosia said:
Seems like the mistake that should see heads role to me .
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I’m not disagreeing but i’d like a bit more information to come to light before we start nailing our fitness department to crosses.
 
DERO said:
I think that is pretty fair to say. I do wonder though how much of it can be put down to Joe wanting to push through to help the team and how much of it is the failure to accurately diagnose and treat the issue. Apparently playing through has made the issue worse.
Click to expand...
Op is very difficult to deal with as it varies so much from player to player and even week to week in the same player. There is no doubt Joe thought he was doing the right thing and pushing through for the team but in the end not giving the staff the exact extent of his injury has made it worse.

Right now it is hard to say how good or bad it is because he is not being pushed. They have gone the long slow build and the results will not be known until late Jan or early Feb.

From personal experience I can say it is hard to deal with. You can feel pretty good and on top of it , go out and train and then the next day you can hardly move. This can last for a day or a week before it settles again.
As far as failure to treat goes it is easy to sit on the side lines and question but if you have a look at the whole picture over all clubs and the last 20 years you will find an absolute minefield of treatment going well and others not going well from a variety of actions. The reason they are reluctant to jump in early with surgery is it is actually much better long term not to have a release done.

With Joe we will not really know until early next year.
 
Ambrosia said:
What I don't understand with this whole debacle is regardless of how much discomfort Daniher was feeling and whether or not he could have played through the injury they knew he had OP. What was their long term plan? Daniher to magically get better without the required rest?
Click to expand...
Buddy played all season with OP albeit rather poorly at times.He has recently had the tendon release surgery Many others do as well.
The problem is Joe thought he was doing the right thing by the team and "being a man" to push through and play without telling the fitness staff exactly how bad the injury was. What they thought was a bit of groin soreness ended up being a lot worse after a couple of weeks of rest when Joe had to admit the full extent after showing zero improvement after 2 weeks rest.
 
When he was struggling after only a couple of games this year you could see he had none of his usual launch power. I was thinking they should omit him then. But no, he kept playing. If a distant observer like myself can see this then so can the football department. If they didn’t have the guts or insight to overrule him then they aren’t worthy of their position in a role that demands making overriding decisions. Of course it stinks of mismanagement and if Joe’s career is in jeopardy because of it then it’s almost as unforgivable as the saga.
 
un_eggs said:
When he was struggling after only a couple of games this year you could see he had none of his usual launch power. I was thinking they should omit him then. But no, he kept playing. If a distant observer like myself can see this then so can the football department. If they didn’t have the guts or insight to overrule him then they aren’t worthy of their position in a role that demands making overriding decisions. Of course it stinks of mismanagement and if Joe’s career is in jeopardy because of it then it’s almost as unforgivable as the saga.
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A view from the sidelines with limited information. Everyone could tell he was struggling a bit but as I have said OP is very difficult to deal with and you can find several examples at every club most years that can back that up.

If you have not experienced it you really have no idea how the ins and outs work. Even in cases where the players confess how sore they really are it can be dificult to deal with and there are actually a lot of cases where players play through a whole season with groin soreness and improve as the season goes on. Dyson Heppell being one this year.
In the end if the players is telling you it is only a 3/10 and he can push through then of course the treatment will not fit the injury.
What you are implying is simply wrong.
 
ant555 said:
A view from the sidelines with limited information. Everyone could tell he was struggling a bit but as I have said OP is very difficult to deal with and you can find several examples at every club most years that can back that up.

If you have not experienced it you really have no idea how the ins and outs work. Even in cases where the players confess how sore they really are it can be dificult to deal with and there are actually a lot of cases where players play through a whole season with groin soreness and improve as the season goes on. Dyson Heppell being one this year.
In the end if the players is telling you it is only a 3/10 and he can push through then of course the treatment will not fit the injury.
What you are implying is simply wrong.
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I’d suggest that any player who has lost his core strength due to groin issues should be spelled for a bit. I’m aware that I wouldn’t know all the ins and outs but blind Freddy could see that he was unable to push through nor contribute in any meaningful way. Then to play him in 2 games within less than a week around Anzac Day was just mind-boggling really. It’s not any implication I’m making it’s a straight out statement, he should’ve been overruled if he was saying he was good to go because he obviously wasn’t. .
 
un_eggs said:
I’d suggest that any player who has lost his core strength due to groin issues should be spelled for a bit. I’m aware that I wouldn’t know all the ins and outs but blind Freddy could see that he was unable to push through nor contribute in any meaningful way. Then to play him in 2 games within less than a week around Anzac Day was just mind-boggling really. It’s not any implication I’m making it’s a straight out statement, he should’ve been overruled if he was saying he was good to go because he obviously wasn’t. .
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You just can't say things like that. Injuries are rarely biomechanical in origin and rest is useless for conditions that are only painful some of the time.

In fact, at some point, physios will realize that pain = healing and pulling up sore after a training session should be deemed as a good thing for players with chronic problems. The players should be running whenever they're pain free and meditating when the pain comes.

Here's a question. Why don't gazelles ever pull a hammy (or whatever muscles they have)? They don't do warmups before they're chased by a lion.

The difference between humans and other animals is that we are far more conscious. We over analyze ourselves when we get an injury.
 
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