Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[Soapy V]

Doc gone for nother 12 mnths and will be slower this time.....he will still be quite good etc..down the track
I would like to say the list is looking much better,the drafts are improving rapidly.they are mainly efficient ball users and good kicks.
We still will need a Kelly as an example....and got some surplus funds to see such a trade happen hopefully.
Look at Dusty for Richmond.....he runs the show literally,just one dominant player which probably isnt the way to go ,however Cripps still needs immediate Elite assistance in the middle....i see backs and forwards as ok
-->Load up the middle now.........the comp is so ridiculously competitive we will need a lot of grunt out there with CFC on it.

I was keen for Kelly and rate him highly but now I'm not convinced he is the best option. Would cost $1.6m a year over 6 years and 2 x first round picks and IMO no one is worth that. We could get a FA and use our first round for a Cerra and another top pick as examples.

IMO this year will show us a lot in who makes it and what roles we need filling. We may be better off spending our currency on a Ruck or a Key Defender or a small forward? Who knows

If we have a good year and most step up I can see us having a fairly quiet trade/draft period.

 

[gbatman]

Kennedy looks leaps and bounds ahead of last year conditioning wise. Some of the players we took in 2015 and 2016 drafts have developed into senior players by the look as expected with 3-4 years in the system.

Walsh and especially Stocker look like they have already had a year in the system at least. Some of the older guys like Thomas and Murphy look in really good nick, I don't think I've seen Thomas fit since he has been at Carlton. It's good to see Fasolo looking fit, that's a sign of a guy who is motivated and keen to get into playing good footy.

Very much looking forward to some footy being played.

 

[Soapy V]

Even with only 4-6 weeks training it's amazing how much the players have slimmed down and become leaner but still stronger. Wait until people see Curnow & Murphy live. Trimmed right down and look sharper.

I think Murphy is in for a big year

 

[Soapy V]

Kennedy looks leaps and bounds ahead of last year conditioning wise. Some of the players we took in 2015 and 2016 drafts have developed into senior players by the look as expected with 3-4 years in the system.

Walsh and especially Stocker look like they have already had a year in the system at least. Some of the older guys like Thomas and Murphy look in really good nick, I don't think I've seen Thomas fit since he has been at Carlton. It's good to see Fasolo looking fit, that's a sign of a guy who is motivated and keen to get into playing good footy.

Very much looking forward to some footy being played.

Walsh is easily the most prepared footballer I have ever seen at his age. Forget even waiting for him to develop. Will step straight in Round One and will more than handle it. Whatever odds for the Rising Star get on it. No issue (and I'm normally conservative)

Our first round midfield could easily be Cripps Kennedy SPS Dow Curnow Setterfield Murphy LOB Fisher & Walsh. WOW

 

[The Smoking Gun]

We are going to have to throw kitchen sink at something at 2019 trade....need elite talent

Won't happen. I'm sure SOS has already asked the question of Coniglio, but I think the message is clear that already established elite talent won't even give us a sideways glance until we're in the eight with a rocket up our arse continuing to propel us northwards. The simple reality is at this point of time we're little more than a convenient leverage tool for player managers to negotiate the best deal possible for their clients from their destination of choice.

Probably sounds harsh, but I suspect it's merely the law of the jungle. It is the reason SOS rolled the dice and took Stocker........so that we can be in control of our own destiny.

 

[goBlue]

Walsh is easily the most prepared footballer I have ever seen at his age. Forget even waiting for him to develop. Will step straight in Round One and will more than handle it. Whatever odds for the Rising Star get on it. No issue (and I'm normally conservative)

Our first round midfield could easily be Cripps Kennedy SPS Dow Curnow Setterfield Murphy LOB Fisher & Walsh. WOW

He's an 18 yr old vs huge guys who have been in the system for years.

Any1 could pop his shoulder, remember murph in his first year.
I think he will be okay, but not AFL standards. Sounds harsh but it's probably the truth.

If the midfield was cripps Kennedy SPS Dow Curnow Setterfield and fisher i would be over the moon.

 

[Robbo's my hero]

He's an 18 yr old vs huge guys who have been in the system for years.

Any1 could pop his shoulder, remember murph in his first year.
I think he will be okay, but not AFL standards. Sounds harsh but it’s probably the truth.

If the midfield was cripps Kennedy SPS Dow Curnow Setterfield and fisher i would be over the moon.

No it’s not.

 

[gbatman]

Walsh is easily the most prepared footballer I have ever seen at his age. Forget even waiting for him to develop. Will step straight in Round One and will more than handle it. Whatever odds for the Rising Star get on it. No issue (and I'm normally conservative)

Our first round midfield could easily be Cripps Kennedy SPS Dow Curnow Setterfield Murphy LOB Fisher & Walsh. WOW

Certainly a nice young midfield with potential but I feel needs some topping off. An improvement no doubt. I think the best thing about Walsh and especially stocker is that they have pace and won't be forced to play inside roles. Generally young players who can run and can play those outside roles contribute earlier than inside players and talls. Should have some quality rotations going here.

One of the others who has been in the photos a lot is Schumacher. I think my biggest Christmas wish would be to see Schumacher and Williamson playing really good footy across half back and establishing themselves. People talk about who's going to fill the docherty spot and eventually the Simpson spot and name a lot of our quick players but end of the day the thing that makes the great medium defenders is their bravery and toughness. It's what makes Simpson and Docherty so good and I hear Schumacher has that. People on this forum suggest names and forget this important aspect. Would love to find one here. Would be great to have three medium running but tough defenders and three tall defenders and let Marchbank off the chain a bit.

Plenty to look forward too.

 

[COBALT BLUE]

Won't happen. I'm sure SOS has already asked the question of Coniglio, but I think the message is clear that already established elite talent won't even give us a sideways glance until we're in the eight with a rocket up our arse continuing to propel us northwards. The simple reality is at this point of time we're little more than a convenient leverage tool for player managers to negotiate the best deal possible for their clients from their destination of choice.

Probably sounds harsh, but I suspect it's merely the law of the jungle. It is the reason SOS rolled the dice and took Stocker........so that we can be in control of our own destiny.

I suspect that is true.
Possibly Shiel considered us,however he wants finals as nother example.
Going to be a long road
................................

 

[TerryWallet]

Walsh is easily the most prepared footballer I have ever seen at his age. Forget even waiting for him to develop. Will step straight in Round One and will more than handle it. Whatever odds for the Rising Star get on it. No issue (and I'm normally conservative)

Our first round midfield could easily be Cripps Kennedy SPS Dow Curnow Setterfield Murphy LOB Fisher & Walsh. WOW

This is the comparison to Joel Selwood that Pat Dangerfield was alluding to. It is what had guys like Boomer Harvey and Luke Power gushing. It is what had all his contemporaries in awe.

He is on a different level preperation and mindsetwise.

Walsh is an outstanding footballer, but his whole package is what will make him an Elite AFL Footballer. And practically straight away.

 

[Robertio]

He's an 18 yr old vs huge guys who have been in the system for years.

Any1 could pop his shoulder, remember murph in his first year.
I think he will be okay, but not AFL standards. Sounds harsh but it's probably the truth.

If the midfield was cripps Kennedy SPS Dow Curnow Setterfield and fisher i would be over the moon.

Do you think Dow was AFL standard this year? I do and expect Walsh to have a bigger impact, he is that good.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

No it’s not.

Think he is trying to say something like this.

Walsh will collect 15 possessions in the midfield next year while his opponent will collect it 30 times. If Walsh gets it 20 times then his opponent gets it 35 times. You get the picture.

Walsh will be a good player but in 2019, will have little or negative impact on outcomes. That sounds negative but it is more reality of a first year mid.

I'm sure GoBlue is a fan of Walsh like me...we just have to wait 2-3 years to see the real deal on show.

 

[COBALT BLUE]

Even with only 4-6 weeks training it's amazing how much the players have slimmed down and become leaner but still stronger. Wait until people see Curnow & Murphy live. Trimmed right down and look sharper.

I think Murphy is in for a big year

Murphy has been good for us..
Seen him wi several games for us...literally off his effort alone
Fierce competitor

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Do you think Dow was AFL standard this year? I do and expect Walsh to have a bigger impact, he is that good.

Dow averaged 14-15 possessions a game.

It is all semantics.

Dow is a gun first year player and AFL standard 'first year' player. But he is not an AFL standard midfielder compared to AFL average based on how many times he can get the pill in a full time midfield role. He will be just not yet. Our midfield is young and was getting thrashed EVERY week in 2018 with Dow in it.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

I suspect that is true.
Possibly Shiel considered us,however he wants finals as nother example.
Going to be a long road
................................

We'll be just fine my friend.

 

[Robertio]

Dow averaged 14-15 possessions a game.

It is all semantics.

Dow is a gun first year player and AFL standard 'first year' player. But he is not an AFL standard midfielder compared to AFL average based on how many times he can get the pill in a full time midfield role. He will be just not yet. Our midfield is young and was getting thrashed EVERY week in 2018 with Dow in it.

I wasn't saying he's a Martin, Dangerfield or Mitchell, he played nearly every game done some nice things so IMO he's AFL standard. But i do see your point.

 

[Soapy V]

Dow averaged 14-15 possessions a game.

It is all semantics.

Dow is a gun first year player and AFL standard 'first year' player. But he is not an AFL standard midfielder compared to AFL average based on how many times he can get the pill in a full time midfield role. He will be just not yet. Our midfield is young and was getting thrashed EVERY week in 2018 with Dow in it.

Dow hardly had any help in a poor side. He is a special player. Another who will benefit hugely from having a fit Kennedy Fisher SPS around him.

It's not just the individual but the collective of this talent that will make the difference

 

[Robertio]

Think he is trying to say something like this.

Walsh will collect 15 possessions in the midfield next year while his opponent will collect it 30 times. If Walsh gets it 20 times then his opponent gets it 35 times. You get the picture.

Walsh will be a good player but in 2019, will have little or negative impact on outcomes. That sounds negative but it is more reality of a first year mid.

I'm sure GoBlue is a fan of Walsh like me...we just have to wait 2-3 years to see the real deal on show.

Have you bought a crystal ball?

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Have you bought a crystal ball?

I'm open to different views. Show me ten first year midfielders that played midfield in their first year and achieved an average of 23+ possessions because that is what Walsh's opponent is going to achieve.

 

[Pablito]

Dow hardly had any help in a poor side. He is a special player. Another who will benefit hugely from having a fit Kennedy Fisher SPS around him.

It's not just the individual but the collective of this talent that will make the difference

Don't forget setterfield.

 

[Soapy V]

Don't forget setterfield.

I never do. I just think he will take a little time before he is a full time mid with influence.

Maybe Round 3?

 

[Robertio]

I'm open to different views. Show me ten first year midfielders that played midfield in their first year and achieved an average of 23+ possessions because that is what Walsh's opponent is going to achieve.

I don't do stats mate infact i dob't think i even mentioned any stats. I see your up for a debate, me i will let next year take care of itself and then i'll be more than happy to have a pow wow with you.

 

[TerryWallet]

I never do. I just think he will take a little time before he is a full time mid with influence.

Maybe Round 3?

I have no urgency with Setters for 2019. When Russell says he's ready, play him. If he says he needs more conditioning or needs a break here or there, he gets it.

I use Paul Ahern last year as a bit of a template for Setters this year. He played some corkers, but was just finding his feet again after 2 years out and was quite up and down.

If Setters shows he is gonna be a good to very good AFL player in 2019 then that's all i wanna see.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Won't happen. I'm sure SOS has already asked the question of Coniglio, but I think the message is clear that already established elite talent won't even give us a sideways glance until we're in the eight with a rocket up our arse continuing to propel us northwards. The simple reality is at this point of time we're little more than a convenient leverage tool for player managers to negotiate the best deal possible for their clients from their destination of choice.

Probably sounds harsh, but I suspect it's merely the law of the jungle. It is the reason SOS rolled the dice and took Stocker........so that we can be in control of our own destiny.

Not harsh at all, it’s reality. The Coniglio’s of the AFL world, whom everybody will be chasing, are simply not going to be choosing Carlton as things stand right now. We will need to see significant improvement this year to be any chance.

 

[gbatman]

I never do. I just think he will take a little time before he is a full time mid with influence.

Maybe Round 3?

The beauty about Setterfield is that he is probably a player who can be successfully rotated through other positions. He's supposed to have utility qualities. You look at similar types like Bontempelli who is quite happy to play forward and midfield or mostly as a high half forward. He may be even able to be involved with the backline rotations so he's probably someone who can play and play well without being super fit unlike players who are only midfielders or only outside runners.

I'm looking forward to seeing who steps into rotational/utility roles. I definitely would like to see Fisher play forward with stints in the midfield. Perhaps SPS can play midfield with stints up forward. We know Cripps plays some really good footy when he's spending a few minutes forward, perhaps Cripps and Setterfield can rotate between forward and midfield. We have quite a lot of figuring out here. Silvagni, Thomas, Fasolo, Murphycan all probably be players who can be utilities and rotate between positions.