News Crows buy professional eSports team - Update: SOLD

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DangerSloane said:
But that selling point is actually quite true. The only thing about China is its a very different market to other places due to their culture. I have a few friends who do a lot of business in China with branding and stuff. I wont go into too much detail but it takes a certain angle to get picked up in China. The trouble is companies assume that they can just get business doing things the same way over there and it doesnt work. But ask Swisse or someone like that how getting a small portion of China market has assisted their business. Chinese 'daigou' companies in Australia which essentially act as a bridge from Australian companies to Chinese buyers is a hugely growing industry.

I agree with what you're saying about the growth of the 'sport' (I struggle to call it that) and there is definitely no guarantees, but it seems like a lot of the naysayers don't come from an angle of "well its an unknown entity for this and that reason", they come from the angle of not actually having a clue what this is and assuming its a dumb investment because they specifically don't know what it is or what it entails or arent a participant.

I would say to an extent the Oceania competition will associate with Asian competitions, akin to say soccer.

Lets just say I think its a lot safer investment than the investment in the Adelaide Bite, which nobody seems to comment on?
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I was using China as an example of a promise that businesses have used in many examples, and proved to be not the magic bullet many have sought for. There is a level of that with e-sports that people are talking about this legion of fans, but really like soccer, a very significant portion of those fans will end up being localized in 2 regions - Asia, and the US. Equally, unlike Soccer, I doubt Oceania will end up associating with Asia as really that was a work around due to the severe lack of quality in the Oceania region, and Australia trying to get an easier qualifying path for the world cup (+ some other issues). Though of course, it's actually possible as some leagues (overwatch in particular) is a combination of American/South Korea/England teams in their top league.

Your biggest issue with E-sports in Oceania is both population and that the quality is elsewhere. It is quite likely that for a team/player looking to make it in E-sports will use leagues like Oceania as primarily a stepping stone to try to get their way into the big leagues. You equally have a fan issue in that I doubt for an entertainment source like E-sports that local pro scenes will attract a lot of fans as it's not particularly difficult to watch/follow/form a level of attachment to lets say an American overwatch side like LA Valiant at the very top level. So all in all, I'm not sure if there is a lot of potential return of investment here, especially not in the short term. This could be the case of get an asset, hold/write off any initial losses and then try to make it be a constant money spinner in 5-15 years once everything else has caught up. Or alternative write off losses in the hope you can get whatever team you're taking over into the top leagues where there is a lot of money. That said, I have no real idea if there is any merit in a strategy like that.

I'd be very surprised if we were making anything on either of those clubs currently, or are projected to in the short term future. That said, surely we wouldn't have made either move if we were projected to lose a lot of money on them, though I do guess that is possible if we've been hoodwinked.
 
Golumless said:
I was using China as an example of a promise that businesses have used in many examples, and proved to be not the magic bullet many have sought for. There is a level of that with e-sports that people are talking about this legion of fans, but really like soccer, a very significant portion of those fans will end up being localized in 2 regions - Asia, and the US. Equally, unlike Soccer, I doubt Oceania will end up associating with Asia as really that was a work around due to the severe lack of quality in the Oceania region, and Australia trying to get an easier qualifying path for the world cup (+ some other issues). Though of course, it's actually possible as some leagues (overwatch in particular) is a combination of American/South Korea/England teams in their top league.

Your biggest issue with E-sports in Oceania is both population and that the quality is elsewhere. It is quite likely that for a team/player looking to make it in E-sports will use leagues like Oceania as primarily a stepping stone to try to get their way into the big leagues. You equally have a fan issue in that I doubt for an entertainment source like E-sports that local pro scenes will attract a lot of fans as it's not particularly difficult to watch/follow/form a level of attachment to lets say an American overwatch side like LA Valiant at the very top level. So all in all, I'm not sure if there is a lot of potential return of investment here, especially not in the short term. This could be the case of get an asset, hold/write off any initial losses and then try to make it be a constant money spinner in 5-15 years once everything else has caught up. Or alternative write off losses in the hope you can get whatever team you're taking over into the top leagues where there is a lot of money. That said, I have no real idea if there is any merit in a strategy like that.

I'd be very surprised if we were making anything on either of those clubs currently, or are projected to in the short term future. That said, surely we wouldn't have made either move if we were projected to lose a lot of money on them, though I do guess that is possible if we've been hoodwinked.
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I don't disagree, but don't you think there will be a distinct lack of talent in Oceania for esports as well (like Soccer), given what you've said about the concentration of players and fans around asia/north america?

We don't have the numbers or a crystal ball so its impossible to say but I believe you're right in saying its a hold strategy. Minimal initial outlay and ongoing costs for a potential windfall later. The thing with the 'Bite' is baseball isn't growing in Australia or worldwide really (its localised to 3 major regions - USA, Latin America, Japan) whereas Esports are growing worldwide. I know growth is only one factor, but its an important one.
 

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DangerSloane said:
I don't disagree, but don't you think there will be a distinct lack of talent in Oceania for esports as well (like Soccer), given what you've said about the concentration of players and fans around asia/north america?

We don't have the numbers or a crystal ball so its impossible to say but I believe you're right in saying its a hold strategy. Minimal initial outlay and ongoing costs for a potential windfall later. The thing with the 'Bite' is baseball isn't growing in Australia or worldwide really (its localised to 3 major regions - USA, Latin America, Japan) whereas Esports are growing worldwide. I know growth is only one factor, but its an important one.
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I think it's inevitable that there will always be a distinct lack of talent in Oceania. Mixture of population, and money play a big role in this, and really the easiest way to bridge/expand any quality gap that leagues have compared to others is through money. What will be curious to see is how a "SANFL" type league attracts players and operates with a means to make money. Certainly possible of course.

Baseball is another odd one, on one hand it's a very traditional sport club set up so we would have a lot of expertise here (and naturally lower outlay), and the ABL has recently expanded which does indicate it's either doing quite well, or terribly (and looking for a quick dollar). The big ??? here is can you get ABL to be broadcasted on free to air television (As I doubt there is a better way to grow a sport), and how does the Korean team they've added impact on the amount of money flowing into the league? Of course, I'm skeptical how much it will add seeing it's not a KBO team, but equally that league is in its offseason during the ABL season so you might get some nationalistic pride/curiosity occurring.
 
Golumless said:
I think it's inevitable that there will always be a distinct lack of talent in Oceania. Mixture of population, and money play a big role in this, and really the easiest way to bridge/expand any quality gap that leagues have compared to others is through money. What will be curious to see is how a "SANFL" type league attracts players and operates with a means to make money. Certainly possible of course.

Baseball is another odd one, on one hand it's a very traditional sport club set up so we would have a lot of expertise here (and naturally lower outlay), and the ABL has recently expanded which does indicate it's either doing quite well, or terribly (and looking for a quick dollar). The big ??? here is can you get ABL to be broadcasted on free to air television (As I doubt there is a better way to grow a sport), and how does the Korean team they've added impact on the amount of money flowing into the league? Of course, I'm skeptical how much it will add seeing it's not a KBO team, but equally that league is in its offseason during the ABL season so you might get some nationalistic pride/curiosity occurring.
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I'm not sold on the argument that the best talent will always leave, by nature people who are elite at video games are often not very outgoing so there will be many who will prefer to stay local even if it means earning less. Plus eSports travel much easier than other sports, it's not a huge issue to travel a team to asia, europe or even the US for a tournament that will likely be set over a couple days at most. It's not like travelling a sport team where you have physios, coaches, doctors etc that need to go with the team of 20-30 players for a tournament that lasts a month. Plus we are reasonably close to in an internet sense to play against Asian teams with acceptable levels of ping without leaving the country. Our asian neighbours are some of the biggest supporters of eSports right now.

I think our baseball venture isn't so much about growing the sport and more about making our facilities self funding by charging international clubs to send their junior players over to play for the Bite in their winter and use our facilities which allows us to spend more on the facilities to make sure they are world class so that more clubs want to send players to us. There is the added bonus that they will send fitness and development staff over with their players who our fitness and development staff may be able to learn from. How many southern hemisphere baseball clubs would have facilities as good as the AFC? there wouldn't be many and if there is, they would already have decent talent in their side so wouldn't have room or need for clubs to send juniors over.
 
ad victoriam said:
Legacy Esport good read if anyone interested
https://legacyesports.com.au/reflecting-on-2018-and-looking-forward-to-2019
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Good read. Sounds like they are committed to the idea of being a leader in eSports OCE and a pathway/academy for local talent. Very grounded approach. They basically want to be THE organisation if you want to make it in eSports. Go to Legacy to learn your craft and get picked up by larger organisations. Sounds like a similar approach for the Bite tbh.
 
spexau said:
Good read. Sounds like they are committed to the idea of being a leader in eSports OCE and a pathway/academy for local talent. Very grounded approach. They basically want to be THE organisation if you want to make it in eSports. Go to Legacy to learn your craft and get picked up by larger organisations. Sounds like a similar approach for the Bite tbh.
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The Part about players moving on to the larger organisation is the bonus a few don't realise yet. Esport works under a Player transfer fee system.
 
ad victoriam said:
The Part about players moving on to the larger organisation is the bonus a few don't realise yet. Esport works under a Player transfer fee system.
Click to expand...
Yet nobody has mentioned this at all in the last 46 pages
 

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ad victoriam said:
The Part about players moving on to the larger organisation is the bonus a few don't realise yet. Esport works under a Player transfer fee system.
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Have any of our players been poached?

Would be some nice symmetry between the teams of the club
 
GreyCrow said:
Yet nobody has mentioned this at all in the last 46 pages
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Hit and miss and only recently was the money worth talking about, so its a bonus, not a revenue. and cannot be planned for. and total player dependent.
Most common ways owners make money is
Sponsorship and endorsements.
Profit sharing events, ie competitions, Ticket sales and associated registration fees,
Stream partnerships along Stream Ads. ie Twitch, Utube, Twitter, etc
Followed by Transfers and Player Appearances. as mentioned very dependant on the talent


Also, I am surprised nobody asks how Legacy can afford to keep 29 players plus 3-4 manager/coaches. yes some of the players are backups
Accommodation and training facilities. Even when Legacy sent players overseas on a training camp no one ask where the money was coming from.
Most believe Legacy sponsorship just cover equipment.

I am no way an expert and most of this is 2nd hand info. Still trying to find out if teams in Australia get any money from transfers or it goes to the players. is there a development fee going to the original team. etc.

On a side note LOL record transfer sits about 7mill USD and in the Asian market, GK E-sports recently paid 1.2mill USD for Zhang "Loa Shuai" Yuchen from the KPL, Most of the others sit around 500k
both large increase and it believes to growing,
 
Geoffa32 said:
Have Legacey made a loss?



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
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Have they made a profit. We’ve won nothing, which is 1 of 2 revenue streams identified. So the sponsorship needs to cover the player and management wages and infrastructure costs. I highly doubt they’re pulling in over $300k in sponsorship given they’ve got almost no profile. And I doubt that if the sponsorship dollars are out there that we have the expertise to know where to look. I mean, when did Nigel Smart all of a sudden become an expert in this industry. Brent Reilly was HPM FFS. Even if cash is to be made, we’re running it with ex-footy players with no industry experience.
 
Interloperer said:
This Kotaku Article should interest some of you.
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Forgot it was still a thing. Hardly surprising, there was never any reasonable explanation as to how we make money. The best we got was basically that if the sport is making gazillions then surely we must make our share. Looks like gazillions might be a bit of a stretch.
 
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