Society/Culture Jordan B Peterson

[Snake_Baker]

I thought my commerce course involved a lot of jargon for jargon's sake, but boy oh boy wowee, philosophers certainly take that concept up a notch.

It goes with the territory.

You should check out the chemistry disciplines for nomenclature ambiguity.

A common negation tactic utilised against Peterson et. al., is to muddy the waters of their own discipline with the bottomless obscurity that goes with post modernism. Of course, this effectively ends any debate once you go down that path. Psychology is not so polluted with the jargon of other disciplines.

Post modernism needs to be taken out and shot, then railed back in with academia. When taken to it's "nth" degree it completely dissolves any boundaries of logic, and renders meaningful discussion impotent..

Proccy is banned from SRP these days

That takes effort. Kudos to P35. R.I.P.

 

[yebiga]

Don't you think there is a bit of an issue here when you can't identify anyone in particular who is actually espousing the views that are being railed against? Doesn't that maybe indicate that no one is actually espousing them?

I started writing a long post on epistemology and ontology but even I got bored of it before I was finished so I'm going to spare everyone. I would point out that on that page you linked to is a section in which a number of the key figures/movements of my probably never to be finished PhD get mentioned (Foucault, Stirner, post-anarchism and post-Marxism), and in that section it points out that the relativism of postmodern theory is really epistemological rather than ontological. The postmodern critique is largely about drawing attention to the limits of human perception and language when it comes to having direct access to or communicating about objective reality. It isn't about denying that objective reality exists. In many ways the postmodern critique is not substantially different to the kind of self-reflective criticism and doubt that is already present within and fundamental to the scientific method. I don't know of any postmodern philosopher who thinks that gravity is just a narrative that can be arbitrarily replaced with another so that one can flap one's arms and start flying.



There is a pretty massive leap between the passage you quoted and your interpretation of it. That meaning is unstable and dependent upon context is not to say you can just make up whatever you like and that becomes true.

This idea about being "proven to be wrong" highlights a pretty common but fundamental misunderstanding of what science is about. Here is a nice article about this: https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/11/22/scientific-proof-is-a-myth/#165af8d62fb1

Isn't the fact that pretty much all of the key postmodern political philosophers were also actively engaged in political struggles in the 60s and 70s evidence that, far from rejecting personal responsibility, they actually embraced it?

I really would encourage you guys to stop relying on second hand sources for coming up with your ideas about what postmodern philosophy is about. I mean, in this thread I've tried to engage with Peterson directly, I've watched videos, I've read things he has written, and when I have posted about his work I have directly quoted things he has said in order to engage with his arguments. I've commonly seen people who support Peterson criticise those people who come in to this thread and, rather than engage with Peterson directly, instead respond to second hand characterisations of his work, often by people who for whatever reason are opposed to him. When it comes to engaging with postmodern theory, though, that is exactly what you are doing yourselves - basing your opinions based on unflattering and inaccurate characterisations by someone who has a clear an explicit enmity towards that philosophy.

This is exactly what Pomo always does - the activism of the 60/70s is not in the least a Pomo movement
It’s a continuation of universal enlightenmentment principles

This confusion is infuriating

Because Pomo will clutch at anything to sustain a modicum of relevance and duck the disdain it is owed.

So let’s be clear
If the idea criticism movement is or can be universalised it by definition is not and cannot be a pomp idea.

The very definition of Pomo is that there is no universal answer to anything

You are defending Pomo in terms which reveal you don’t understand it - which is no surprise - no one really does.

But essentially Pomo looks for hidden sub texts or forgotten overlooked consequences. Which explains why it is the champion at finding oppression. But impotent at solving it.

 

[its free real estate]

And from memory there was some pomo wingnut who claimed the square root of -1 was phallic.

Just remembered it was probably Lacan. JFC what a pathetic discipline

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

I read today that he eats a beef-only diet and when he tried something else, he couldn't sleep for 25 days. The longest recorded time someone has survived without sleep is 11 days.

 

[its free real estate]

I read today that he eats a beef-only diet and when he tried something else, he couldn't sleep for 25 days. The longest recorded time someone has survived without sleep is 11 days.

What an alpha

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

What an alpha

The more i read about him the more I think he's a crackpot e.g. you require the supernatural to quit smoking.

Bordering on cult leader territory but with a much greater reach and larger following.

 

[its free real estate]

The more i read about him the more I think he's a crackpot e.g. you require the supernatural to quit smoking.

Bordering on cult leader territory but with a much greater reach and larger following.

Watch the videos of him from before he was famous, when he was a flabby nobody. Gives you a better insight.

Still the same guy but you see a man who has really fought a deep personal struggle.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Watch the videos of him from before he was famous, when he was a flabby nobody. Gives you a better insight.

Still the same guy but you see a man who has really fought a deep personal struggle.

If you can recommend one I'll watch it tonight.

I was speaking to a friend last night and she spent an entire conversation regurgitating his talking points. She even stopped herself twice to say she needs to focus on being more precise with her words. It was really awkward.

She has issues with her father's abandonment of her and Peterson is known for his paternalistic image so there could be a correlation there.

 

[its free real estate]

If you can recommend one I'll watch it tonight.

I was speaking to a friend last night and she spent an entire conversation regurgitating his talking points. She even stopped herself twice to say she needs to focus on being more precise with her words. It was really awkward.

She has issues with her father's abandonment of her and Peterson is known for his paternalistic image so there could be a correlation there.

Look, I’d hate to be his shitter, but if the all beef diet is making him happier and his daughter fit, then more power to em. Pass the beef!

 

[ShanDog]

The more i read about him the more I think he's a crackpot e.g. you require the supernatural to quit smoking.

Bordering on cult leader territory but with a much greater reach and larger following.

Lol where did he say the no sleep thing? Surely that was an exaggeration not meaning to imply that he literally didn't sleep for over three weeks.

Regarding the supernatural and addiction - he's referring to the medical effects of psychedelics and the psychology of "supernatural experiences" associated with them. There was a very good video of a discussion about this a couple pages back that only goes for a few minutes. Interestingly, the use of psychedelics for medical purposes is now being researched again. I believe the most common anti-smoking pill you can get in Australia is called Champix, and if I recall right, it was actually developed as an anti-depressant (so messes with your brain chemistry and receptors etc - can have some pretty serious side affects) but was changed to a quit smoking aid after the trials with smokers resulted in a huge number quitting without being promoted. So there is certainly a lot to be said about playing with the brain to help addiction. I suppose that's fairly obvious, but the relatively unspoken about aspect is the use of psychedelics and the degree to which the "trip" makes a difference.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Lol where did he say the no sleep thing? Surely that was an exaggeration not meaning to imply that he literally didn't sleep for over three weeks.

Regarding the supernatural and addiction - he's referring to the medical effects of psychedelics and the psychology of "supernatural experiences" associated with them. There was a very good video of a discussion about this a couple pages back that only goes for a few minutes. Interestingly, the use of psychedelics for medical purposes is now being researched again. I believe the most common anti-smoking pill you can get in Australia is called Champix, and if I recall right, it was actually developed as an anti-depressant (so messes with your brain chemistry and receptors etc - can have some pretty serious side affects) but was changed to a quit smoking aid after the trials with smokers resulted in a huge number quitting without being promoted. So there is certainly a lot to be said about playing with the brain to help addiction. I suppose that's fairly obvious, but the relatively unspoken about aspect is the use of psychedelics and the degree to which the "trip" makes a difference.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/08/the-peterson-family-meat-cleanse/567613/

I presume he wasn't exaggerating given he's very precise with what he says.

 

[Leeda]

sorting out the ten year olds from the twenty five year olds.. surely this is grandstanding..

 

[yebiga]

If you can recommend one I'll watch it tonight.

I was speaking to a friend last night and she spent an entire conversation regurgitating his talking points. She even stopped herself twice to say she needs to focus on being more precise with her words. It was really awkward.

She has issues with her father's abandonment of her and Peterson is known for his paternalistic image so there could be a correlation there.

Maps of meaning lectures
Available on you tube provide
That’s the essence of his philosophy
I am interested in what you think
As I was blown away
His an infinitely better lecturer than a writer
Love to hear read your reaction to it
Mind you there 12 x 2 hour lecture
I was riveted

 

[ShanDog]

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/08/the-peterson-family-meat-cleanse/567613/

I presume he wasn't exaggerating given he's very precise with what he says.

Yeah that's odd... I listened to that podcast and don't remember actually picking up on that bit specifically.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Yeah that's odd... I listened to that podcast and don't remember actually picking up on that bit specifically.

I found it on Rationalwiki. There were a few eyebrow raising things there for example how he believes snakes motifs from antiquity are related to the double helix and how women who complain about sexual harassment at work are hypocrites if they're wearing makeup. Nonetheless, I will watch the earlier recommendations tonight.

 

[ShanDog]

I found it on Rationalwiki. There were a few eyebrow raising things there for example how he believes snakes motifs from antiquity are related to the double helix and how women who complain about sexual harassment at work are hypocrites if they're wearing makeup. Nonetheless, I will watch the earlier recommendations tonight.

Yep, I am a massive fan, but the diet stuff and that snake motif thing (which, to be fair, was a passing comment in a lecture from what I recall - one of those "thinking out loud" moments perhaps) are points where I think "Yeah, sorry, bullshit Doc".

Some of the best thinkers we've known have had a touch of crazy in them I spose.

The makeup one was fair, if disputable. Was in a vice interview which was particularly combative.

 

[its free real estate]

Lol “rational” wiki is anything but.

 

[its free real estate]

Lol “rational” wiki is anything but.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

The makeup one was fair, if disputable. Was in a vice interview which was particularly combative

What do you mean it was fair? I hope you mean a fair criticism of him.

Lol “rational” wiki is anything but.

I think it's always an entertaining read. It obviously doesn't strive for impartiality but does it have to?

 

[CheapCharlie]

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/08/the-peterson-family-meat-cleanse/567613/

I presume he wasn't exaggerating given he's very precise with what he says.

His breath must stink. Not too mention the gristle between his teeth ..
And avoid the bathroom after he has used it for minimum 10 minutes

 

[ShanDog]

What do you mean it was fair? I hope you mean a fair criticism of him.

I think it's always an entertaining read. It obviously doesn't strive for impartiality but does it have to?

I mean Peterson's comments were fair, as in there was a logical sequence to what he was talking about. Doesn't mean it's right or that you should agree, just that it doesn't belong in the same category as "I didn't sleep for 25 days".

 

[CheapCharlie]

I found it on Rationalwiki. There were a few eyebrow raising things there for example how he believes snakes motifs from antiquity are related to the double helix and how women who complain about sexual harassment at work are hypocrites if they're wearing makeup. Nonetheless, I will watch the earlier recommendations tonight.

The women wearing make up thing isnt as rational wiki seems to portray it


That portion of the interview.

 

[its free real estate]

Most episodes of acute and prolonged sleeplessness are caused by fatal familial insomnia, which is caused by rogue prions. So maybe eating all that beef caused a kind of prion based insomnia once he stopped eating, and he was able to defeat said prions using Jungian psychoanalysis.

Something to chew on, herculez09

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Most episodes of acute and prolonged sleeplessness are caused by fatal familial insomnia, which is caused by rogue prions. So maybe eating all that beef caused a kind of prion based insomnia once he stopped eating, and he was able to defeat said prions using Jungian psychoanalysis.

Something to chew on, herculez09

Chief needs to add a laugh button to the site.

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

The women wearing make up thing isnt as rational wiki seems to portray it


That portion of the interview.

I just watched this. The uncut version seems no better. The only difference is he says something and then tries to repeatedly weasel out of what he just said.

He honestly seems somewhat intellectually cowardly. If anyone ever attacks his weirdly misogynistic point then he keeps insisting he didn't say what he just implied. At least in the edited version it makes him look like he has some sort of conviction.

I noticed my friend who loves him was doing the same thing when I spoke to her. She would imply something heavily and then go back on it when I questioned it and insist she never said it. Intellectual dishonesty.