Traded Ryan Burton [traded with #15, #35 and future 4th for Wingard and future 3rd]

[THE_GUN]

Just to be clear, Hawthorn did not shop Burton around it was raised by Cripps.

Chad didn't want out originally but did explore options once Port shopped him around.

Caddy isn't fit to tie Chads shoelaces.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

With what you guys gave up to get him , He would need to be Dusty , Danger Fyfe standard

 

[Mitchell54]

With what you guys gave up to get him , He would need to be Dusty , Danger Fyfe standard

Teams would give almost double for a Dusty or Fyfe.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

Odd to have a trade where both sets of supporters are unhappy with what they paid. Personally I think we overpaid but if we get a flag it's justified. At the time we definitely overpaid for Burgoyne but looking back we won the trade easily

 

[Gralin]

Odd to have a trade where both sets of supporters are unhappy with what they paid. Personally I think we overpaid but if we get a flag it's justified. At the time we definitely overpaid for Burgoyne but looking back we won the trade easily

Clearly we didn't overpay for Burgoyne.
Or Hale, or Gibson or Lake etc.

Draft and trade grades are about as useful as ladder predictions, they mean nothing but peole take them in and the perception gets set, then they say xx underachieved based on that prediction

Supporters think winning every trade is what matters, building a team that can win is what matters.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Clearly we didn't overpay for Burgoyne.
Or Hale, or Gibson or Lake etc.

Draft and trade grades are about as useful as ladder predictions, they mean nothing but peole take them in and the perception gets set, then they say xx underachieved based on that prediction

Supporters think winning every trade is what matters, building a team that can win is what matters.

Thought Lake was a free agent, making him a bargain...

 

[Gralin]

Thought Lake was a free agent, making him a bargain...

No he was a trade. He had a year left on his contract with the Doggies.
We traded our first and second picks for a guy with bad knees at the end of his career who turned 31 before he played a game for us.
There was much angst from Hawks fans at the time, three flags and a Norm Smith later everyone thinks it was a free agency steal....

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

No he was a trade. He had a year left on his contract with the Doggies.
We traded our first and second picks for a guy with bad knees at the end of his career who turned 31 before he played a game for us.
There was much angst from Hawks fans at the time, three flags and a Norm Smith later everyone thinks it was a free agency steal....

Ok, forgot this.

Just looked it up & Hawks traded #21 &
#41 to Bullies for Lake & #27... which is good value.

 

[Mitchell54]

Ok, forgot this.

Just looked it up & Hawks traded #21 &
#41 to Bullies for Lake & #27... which is good value.

We all thought he was cooked though. 1 Norm Smith later we all happily ate our words. Another 2 premierships later he has ingrained himself into Hawthorn history.

 

[Holy Rioli]

No he was a trade. He had a year left on his contract with the Doggies.
We traded our first and second picks for a guy with bad knees at the end of his career who turned 31 before he played a game for us.
There was much angst from Hawks fans at the time, three flags and a Norm Smith later everyone thinks it was a free agency steal....

With regards to Lake, we did get pick 27 back in that deal, but considering we spent it on O'Brien your assessment is pretty accurate.

The best thing that could have happened for us was the AFL allocating points to a draft pick. Now when others are quick to point out we also gave up pick 35 (a second rounder) as part of the Wingard deal, suddenly we have paid a fortune and people can give us a points total.

All up we gave up 2234 points for Wingard (exactly pick 3) - HAW Pick 18 2018 (985) + Burton Pick 19 2015 (948) + HAW Pick 36 2018 (502) + WB Future 4th 2019 Pick 60 (146 based on 2018 ladder) - PA Future 3rd Pick 45 (347)

Unless a club has father son/academy players to be concerned with every club would prefer pick 17 (1025 points) over picks 35 & 36 (1024) which is the great flaw in the points system but it helps clubs feel like they are getting value when we bundle cheap trinkets together to buy gold.

If we retained pick 35, odds are we still take Kosi with that pick, but he was there at 52 anyway. There are plenty of examples of where clubs take a kid at pick 35 that many clubs wouldn't have drafted at all, or may have slipped to the rookie draft.

So whilst it looks like we are trading out of the draft in recent years, the reality is we bundling a some cheap trinkets with silver and getting gold in return.

I mean we used pick 14 and a late pick swap to bring in a guy who has finished 2nd in the Brownlow in his first year with us, and then won the ******* thing in his second year. We used a future 1st and bundled a few 2nd rounders together to bring in a midfielder in JOM who in the second half of last year was just as good as Mitchell.

In no world are we as good a side with SPP (our 2016 1st rounder used by Port if we didn't trade it to Sydney) compared with Mitchell. Hunter Clarke, Ben Long, Josh Battle and Liam Ryan combined wouldn't make us better than what JOM does to our midfield. Oscar Clavarino or Jarmen Impey? Pretty easy to see who wins that as well. And now as good as young Burton is, Burton, Duursma and Tom Berry aren't going to make us a better side compared to what Wingard brings.

But Bigfooty and the other clubs all feel like they are the winners at the trade table which helps make them feel good, whilst we roll out actual stars and not draft points in the likes of Mitchell, JOM and Wingard.

 

[Schulzenfest]

With regards to Lake, we did get pick 27 back in that deal, but considering we spent it on O'Brien your assessment is pretty accurate.

The best thing that could have happened for us was the AFL allocating points to a draft pick. Now when others are quick to point out we also gave up pick 35 (a second rounder) as part of the Wingard deal, suddenly we have paid a fortune and people can give us a points total.

All up we gave up 2234 points for Wingard (exactly pick 3) - HAW Pick 18 2018 (985) + Burton Pick 19 2015 (948) + HAW Pick 36 2018 (502) + WB Future 4th 2019 Pick 60 (146 based on 2018 ladder) - PA Future 3rd Pick 45 (347)

Unless a club has father son/academy players to be concerned with every club would prefer pick 17 (1025 points) over picks 35 & 36 (1024) which is the great flaw in the points system but it helps clubs feel like they are getting value when we bundle cheap trinkets together to buy gold.

If we retained pick 35, odds are we still take Kosi with that pick, but he was there at 52 anyway. There are plenty of examples of where clubs take a kid at pick 35 that many clubs wouldn't have drafted at all, or may have slipped to the rookie draft.

So whilst it looks like we are trading out of the draft in recent years, the reality is we bundling a some cheap trinkets with silver and getting gold in return.

I mean we used pick 14 and a late pick swap to bring in a guy who has finished 2nd in the Brownlow in his first year with us, and then won the ******* thing in his second year. We used a future 1st and bundled a few 2nd rounders together to bring in a midfielder in JOM who in the second half of last year was just as good as Mitchell.

In no world are we as good a side with SPP (our 2016 1st rounder used by Port if we didn't trade it to Sydney) compared with Mitchell. Hunter Clarke, Ben Long, Josh Battle and Liam Ryan combined wouldn't make us better than what JOM does to our midfield. Oscar Clavarino or Jarmen Impey? Pretty easy to see who wins that as well. And now as good as young Burton is, Burton, Duursma and Tom Berry aren't going to make us a better side compared to what Wingard brings.

But Bigfooty and the other clubs all feel like they are the winners at the trade table which helps make them feel good, whilst we roll out actual stars and not draft points in the likes of Mitchell, JOM and Wingard.

This is a quality post aside from the implication that Jarman Impey is any good. Love the bloke but there's a reason there's a hell of a lot of Port fans unhappy with the Wingard deal as opposed to virtually zero Port fans being unhappy with that deal.

 

[Holy Rioli]

This is a quality post aside from the implication that Jarman Impey is any good. Love the bloke but there's a reason there's a hell of a lot of Port fans unhappy with the Wingard deal as opposed to virtually zero Port fans being unhappy with that deal.

Impey was better for us last year than any year he had at Port. And I was only comparing him to the pick that we traded out for him, I didn't actually lump him in with the stars such as Wingard, Mitchell and JOM.

 

[Arthur Dunger]

Wingard will have a fantastic career at Hawthorn but I fear that Burton is just going to be another vanilla half back flanker for us as he at this stage has shown nothing more than that.

 

[Holy Rioli]

Wingard will have a fantastic career at Hawthorn but I fear that Burton is just going to be another vanilla half back flanker for us as he at this stage has shown nothing more than that.

He's still young so it is hard to nail where his upside will max out at. I think he has more tricks than just being a half back flanker though. Booming kick, very nice side step and very good footy brain. I wouldn't write him off yet.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

With what you guys gave up to get him , He would need to be Dusty , Danger Fyfe standard

You must either really rate a Pick 15 or you think Burton is destined to be a top 20 player in the league. Maybe both.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Wingard will have a fantastic career at Hawthorn but I fear that Burton is just going to be another vanilla half back flanker for us as he at this stage has shown nothing more than that.

He showed more than that during 2017, but in 2018 he made some pretty basic ballhandling errors under pressure and looked a bit “off” the pace of the game at times.

Remains to be seen if he can turn that around, but his 2018 form together with Hawthorn’s willingness to trade him out suggests he’s not destined to be the key forward or star midfielder we’d once hoped.

 

[Mitchell54]

Wingard will have a fantastic career at Hawthorn but I fear that Burton is just going to be another vanilla half back flanker for us as he at this stage has shown nothing more than that.

Given some time to settle at HFF I reckon he could be good there and then go back when an extra man down back is required.

 

[Schulzenfest]

With what you guys gave up to get him , He would need to be Dusty , Danger Fyfe standard

Lol. You'd give up Dusty for pick 15 and a decent half back flanker then?

 

[TallyHawk]

Given some time to settle at HFF I reckon he could be good there and then go back when an extra man down back is required.

If used right he could be a Jack Gunston type of player.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[THE_GUN]

You must either really rate a Pick 15 or you think Burton is destined to be a top 20 player in the league. Maybe both.

Burton
#15 - Duursma , Collier Dawkins , Stocker , Ely Smith
#35 - Williams , Bytel , Joyce , Tom Berry

I'll take Burton , Collier Dawkins & Bailey Williams over Chad Wingard for 6-7 years

 

[Holy Rioli]

Burton
#15 - Duursma , Collier Dawkins , Stocker , Ely Smith
#35 - Williams , Bytel , Joyce , Tom Berry

I'll take Burton , Collier Dawkins & Bailey Williams over Chad Wingard for 6-7 years

Duursma, Burton and Tom Berry was the actual cost. I'd rather Wingard even though I still really rate Burton. Best of all, we don't need to wait 4-5 years for these guys to come on. Not to mention we got a nice little upgrade in the 2019 draft as part of the deal. If we kept our pick 35 (which went out to 36 on draft night) we'd probably still have taken Kosi which we took at 52.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Burton
#15 - Duursma , Collier Dawkins , Stocker , Ely Smith
#35 - Williams , Bytel , Joyce , Tom Berry

I'll take Burton , Collier Dawkins & Bailey Williams over Chad Wingard for 6-7 years

That’s great.

I don’t even know who they are.

 

[Bombfire]

Clearly we didn't overpay for Burgoyne.
Or Hale, or Gibson or Lake etc.

Draft and trade grades are about as useful as ladder predictions, they mean nothing but peole take them in and the perception gets set, then they say xx underachieved based on that prediction

Supporters think winning every trade is what matters, building a team that can win is what matters.

Sorry, most supporters think a trade should be inexorably linked to filling a list need.
Nothing to do with bending over another club.

 

[Gralin]

Sorry, most supporters think a trade should be inexorably linked to filling a list need.
Nothing to do with bending over another club.

Mate, you've spent the past two months trying to use the Shiel trade as a point scoring exercise, not to mention your constant barrage of Hawks overpaid for Wingard posts.

I get that you hate all things Hawthorn but I'm getting a little tired of your need to make s**t up in your pursuit of it

 

[TallyHawk]

Mate, you've spent the past two months trying to use the Shiel trade as a point scoring exercise, not to mention your constant barrage of Hawks overpaid for Wingard posts.

I get that you hate all things Hawthorn but I'm getting a little tired of your need to make s**t up in your pursuit of it

He is "special"


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bombfire]

Mate, you've spent the past two months trying to use the Shiel trade as a point scoring exercise, not to mention your constant barrage of Hawks overpaid for Wingard posts.

I get that you hate all things Hawthorn but I'm getting a little tired of your need to make s**t up in your pursuit of it

Sorry mate, the Shiel dialogue was purely an exercise in setting the record straight, nothing to do with winning a trade.
We’re all tired of the s**t being dished out by your mob to refute a simple Shiel nominates EFC.