Why women play the rough/risky game of AF? How can we get more?/Improve the AFLW? Any barriers?

[owen87]

I'm sorry you don't like me advocating arguments based on objective & historical criteria measuring the game's popularity.
I'm sorry you don't want me to refer to the AFL's very carefully researched Charter Of The Game (where it specifies most fans prefer a game that is relatively free flowing, with good scoring, long kicking a lots of contested marking).

Many AFL commentators want the traditional, & most aesthetically pleasing/often unique, features of AF to be showcased -not ugly, stoppages filled, quasi-rugby, tackleball.
eg Hafey, Sheedy, Jeans, Barassi, Parkin, Matthews, Nial, Pagan, Brereton, Lane, G.Healy, Russell & many others.

You have not referred to T. Lane's comments in my link above, thus it can be assumed you agree with them all. If not, what specifically do you disagree with, & why?

This isn't a point scoring debate my friend.

You've also edited your post long after I read and replied to it to include that section.

I'm sure someone else has time to go down this rabbit hole with you, unfortunately I don't, so back to the football of the 60s we go I suppose.

 

[jatz14]

Play was far more open, obviously, in the 80's, 90's, early 2000's. The facts irrefutably show tackle counts have gone from an average of 40 per game in the 80's, to 140 now -& tackle/collision/bump/push injuries are now at RECORD highs, according to Prof. Norton (who advised the AFL to reduce interchange to 20-40 per team).
Players' average speed is now, irrefutably, much higher; & they are, on average, heavier, fitter, & stronger. Force =Mass X Acceleration.

Prof. S.Alomes, below, also disagrees with your views.

https://theconversation.com/afl-must-change-ticketing-and-ugby-rules-that-drive-away-fans-26059

D.Parkin also disagrees, & believes "the look of the game needs to be changed".

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...es-rule-changes-in-afl/10365884?section=sport


I'm sorry you don't like me advocating arguments based on objective & historical criteria measuring the game's popularity.
I'm sorry you don't want me to refer to the AFL's very carefully researched Charter Of The Game (where it specifies most fans prefer a game that is relatively free flowing, with good scoring, long kicking a lots of contested marking). Long kicking, contested marking, running bounce nos. are now at record lows, cf. recent eras.

Many AFL commentators want the traditional, & most aesthetically pleasing/often unique, features of AF to be showcased -not ugly, stoppages filled, quasi-rugby, low scoring, tackleball.
eg Hafey, Sheedy, Jeans, Barassi, Kerley, Parkin, Matthews, Pagan, Bartlett, Walls, Wallace, Blight, Brereton, Lane, Quartermaine, G.Healy, Russell, Baum, Ralph, C.Wilson, G.Lyon, Niall, Watson, Maher, Whateley & many others. Even Dangerfield, AFLPA representitive, recognises the need to change the current game's aesthetics.

You have not referred to T. Lane's comments in my link above, thus it can be assumed you agree with them all. If not, what specifically do you disagree with, & why?

I am not disputing tackle counts have gone up, I am saying that the sorts of tackles that have caused the rise are mostly turtle tackles. Guy picks up ball at his feet, gets wrapped up by the guy standing next to him. Physical impact, almost zero, its pretty much just a wrestle.

I am also not disputing that players are faster, bigger stronger, thats the point. It doesnt matter how much faster they are, if they are standing still when the lay the tackle. The time they are most likely to be using that weight and speed to lay hits that hurt is in open play. The sort of play you want increased. Decreasing congestion will lower tackle counts, and possibly injuries, but I doubt it lowers serious impact injuries, it may even raise them

There is also the fact that tackling is legitimate tool of the footballer. Yo restrict the ability to use it is not a plus imop.

 

[BringBackTorps]

There is also the fact that tackling is legitimate tool of the footballer. Yo restrict the ability to use it is not a plus imop.[I assume you must love RL & RU -lots of tackling]

AF game aesthetics (on a purely personal level) are obviously a subjective matter & I respect your views, although I don't agree with them.

On the major causes of the record no. of collision injuries in the AFL (which you haven't denied), we may have to agree to disagree.

Three questions for you:-

(1) You agree that tackle counts have more than tripled, on average, in the AFL since the 80's; & that average players are now bigger & stronger. I assume you also accept that players, on average, are running faster; & it is now far more common to have congestion/ for 32 players to be in one half of the ground.
Does this place at risk the "continuing viability"/player enjoyment/safety of relatively light weight male & female players in the:-
. AFL & AFLW
. & community AF (where disposal efficiency is considerably less)?

(2) Do you accept that for an off-season AFLW, by 2028+, to eventually attract significantly higher crowds & ratings (ie average 14,000+ per game; average 400,000+ ratings per game), there will be a need for:-

. much higher levels of skilful kicking, marking, running bounces & link-up play
. increase in average scoring by at least 33%+ (same 15 min.+ qtrs)
. much less congestion & stoppages
. more free flowing game style

(3) Due to women's inevitably higher serious knee injury rates, & probably much higher rates of concussion, it is necessary & desirable that the AFLW has:-
. a smaller team size ie less than 18 on the field
. some Rule modifications (ie not exactly the same as the AFL -but without changing any of the contact/ tackling Rules)

 

[drunkill]

The project did a segment on injuries, mainly concussion.

A bit overblown but it makes a few god points. Boys have an entire lifetime of rough games in childhood, while most girls don't get those opportunities.

 

[NoobPie]

The project did a segment on injuries, mainly concussion.

A bit overblown but it makes a few god points. Boys have an entire lifetime of rough games in childhood, while most girls don't get those opportunities.

Great advocacy by Brodie O’Donnell at the end there

 

[jatz14]

AF game aesthetics (on a purely personal level) are obviously a subjective matter & I respect your views, although I don't agree with them.

On the major causes of the record no. of collision injuries in the AFL (which you haven't denied), we may have to agree to disagree.

Three questions for you:-

(1) You agree that tackle counts have more than tripled, on average, in the AFL since the 80's; & that average players are now bigger & stronger. I assume you also accept that players, on average, are running faster; & it is now far more common to have congestion/ for 32 players to be in one half of the ground.
Does this place at risk the "continuing viability"/player enjoyment/safety of relatively light weight male & female players in the:-
. AFL & AFLW
. & community AF (where disposal efficiency is considerably less)?

(2) Do you accept that for an off-season AFLW, by 2028+, to eventually attract significantly higher crowds & ratings (ie average 14,000+ per game; average 400,000+ ratings per game), there will be a need for:-

. much higher levels of skilful kicking, marking, running bounces & link-up play
. increase in average scoring by at least 33%+ (same 15 min.+ qtrs)
. much less congestion & stoppages
. more free flowing game style

(3) Due to women's inevitably higher serious knee injury rates, & probably much higher rates of concussion, it is necessary & desirable that the AFLW has:-
. a smaller team size ie less than 18 on the field
. some Rule modifications (ie not exactly the same as the AFL -but without changing any of the contact/ tackling Rules)

Rugby is boring, but not because of the tackling, they should also all be dead on your logic, considering the tackling. Reality is, most tackles in Rugby are low impact (for the size of the players), due to the relatively low momentum of the tackler (who doesn't want to be stepped).

Does this place at risk the "continuing viability"/player enjoyment/safety of relatively light weight male & female players in the:-
. AFL & AFLW
. & community AF (where disposal efficiency is considerably less)? - No, Ryan and Rioli seemed to go OK in the GF. Small size and weight brings the same advantages now that they did 30 years ago, maybe more so given the lack of space to work. It is also not really relevant for community football, where the general fitness and tactical level does not bring this degree of congestion into it. I would also point out that when I played amateur football, congestion wasn't an issue, getting king hit behind the play was, and happened fairly regularly. From what I have seen, its been cleaned up a bit. Whatever heightened risk the slightly increased level of congestion brings is more than offset by the reduced chance of having your jaw broken 60m from play. I would also note, numbers held up well at that time, so I dont think its an issue.

I would also point out that stories about womens ACL rates being higher, concussions in AFLW being more common, the injury rate in AFLW seem to come out regularly, but participation keeps climbing. If you are waiting for people to suddenly realise that footy is dangerous and can cause injury, and to pull their girls from the sport, I think you wait in vain, its not happening. Varcoes sister died, and participation will still go up.

Articles like the recent one expressing concern (by men) about the health of women playing footy are not generally seen as genuine expressions of concern imop. They are seen as manifestation of paternalism, where men declare they will have to make decisions on behalf of women out of concern for their welfare, and in their own best interests (because women cannot be trusted to make those decisions themselves). Women are aware of the risks, parents are aware, they have decided to play, its not your role to second guess them.

(2) Do you accept that for an off-season AFLW, by 2028+, to eventually attract significantly higher crowds & ratings (ie average 14,000+ per game; average 400,000+ ratings per game), there will be a need for:-
. much higher levels of skilful kicking, marking, running bounces & link-up play
. increase in average scoring by at least 33%+ (same 15 min.+ qtrs)
. much less congestion & stoppages
. more free flowing game style

No.
2 reasons. Firstly, much of the opposition to the AFLW, and the `not watching that crap` responses, are couched in the language of skill, scoring, spectacle of the game, but this is really just a rationale. These people do not rate it because its women, they will never rate it, and there is no point trying to come up with a product that meets the criteria of what they say they want. They will not watch regardless. Fan numbers of AFLW will be largely driven by sporting tribalism (those that support their club, come what may), and supporters of womens sport. There are no legions of footy fans waiting to take up AFLW, if only they kicked more goals, or took more marks. What will bring fans is demographic change that sees a growing number of people that are not forced to curl up into a foetal position at the thought of womens football, and good marketing playing on club loyalty.
Secondly, I think the affect of scoring on the appeal of football, both in the mens game, and the womens game, is overstated. High scoring football is not automatically attractive or interesting football. Imop, low contested easy transition of the ball from one end of the ground to the other with little pressure, starts to look like a training drill, and is as attractive as one. Footy, without the contest, is like ultimate frisby with a ball. AFLX is free flowing, and its s**t.
The solution, if one is needed, to fix AFLW skill levels, and scoring, and congestion, is Prespakis, Parker, Morrison et al. These are players with much surer touch, better ability in congestion, better decision making, and better disposal skills than most existing players, and next years draftees look like they could be better already.

There is a quote about critics of womens sport that sums it up. When men are crap, its because they are crap, but when women are crap, its because they are women. There is nothing inherently wrong with womens football that cannot be put down to the fact they have to many, not very good footballers, and which cannot be fixed by, more good footballers. The game itself does not need to change.

You are an expression of my worst fear about where AFLW is going. People in offices looking at ratings, and comments on AFL pages deciding they need to manage the AFLW like its a fashion line, and has to have exactly the right look to appeal. And they start cutting and shaping and meddling trying to force it to look like their focus group says it should. At that point, it stops being a true sport imop, and becomes a stage show.

 

[The_Wookie]

Articles like the recent one expressing concern (by men) about the health of women playing footy are not generally seen as genuine expressions of concern imop. They are seen as manifestation of paternalism, where men declare they will have to make decisions on behalf of women out of concern for their welfare, and in their own best interests (because women cannot be trusted to make those decisions themselves). Women are aware of the risks, parents are aware, they have decided to play, its not your role to second guess them.

Its any ones role to have an opinion. Especially if there's evidence to support. But hey you write it off to paternalism if you like.

There is a quote about critics of womens sport that sums it up. When men are crap, its because they are crap, but when women are crap, its because they are women.

A quote Ive never seen anywhere, but a sentiment commonly expressed by people trying to label critics of womens sport. Regardless of what the criticisim is.

There is nothing inherently wrong with womens football that cannot be put down to the fact they have to many, not very good footballers, and which cannot be fixed by, more good footballers. The game itself does not need to change.

So there is something inherently wrong at present, but may be fixed in the future.

You are an expression of my worst fear about where AFLW is going. People in offices looking at ratings, and comments on AFL pages deciding they need to manage the AFLW like its a fashion line, and has to have exactly the right look to appeal. And they start cutting and shaping and meddling trying to force it to look like their focus group says it should. At that point, it stops being a true sport imop, and becomes a stage show.

Welcome to professional sport. Women want in, now they get to be measured by the same KPI's - which include attendances, tv ratings and trial by media.
True "sport" has never been its professional version - which has always been a stage show.

 

[TWLS]

Rugby is boring, but not because of the tackling, they should also all be dead on your logic, considering the tackling. Reality is, most tackles in Rugby are low impact (for the size of the players), due to the relatively low momentum of the tackler (who doesn't want to be stepped).

Does this place at risk the "continuing viability"/player enjoyment/safety of relatively light weight male & female players in the:-
. AFL & AFLW
. & community AF (where disposal efficiency is considerably less)? - No, Ryan and Rioli seemed to go OK in the GF. Small size and weight brings the same advantages now that they did 30 years ago, maybe more so given the lack of space to work. It is also not really relevant for community football, where the general fitness and tactical level does not bring this degree of congestion into it. I would also point out that when I played amateur football, congestion wasn't an issue, getting king hit behind the play was, and happened fairly regularly. From what I have seen, its been cleaned up a bit. Whatever heightened risk the slightly increased level of congestion brings is more than offset by the reduced chance of having your jaw broken 60m from play. I would also note, numbers held up well at that time, so I dont think its an issue.

I would also point out that stories about womens ACL rates being higher, concussions in AFLW being more common, the injury rate in AFLW seem to come out regularly, but participation keeps climbing. If you are waiting for people to suddenly realise that footy is dangerous and can cause injury, and to pull their girls from the sport, I think you wait in vain, its not happening. Varcoes sister died, and participation will still go up.

Articles like the recent one expressing concern (by men) about the health of women playing footy are not generally seen as genuine expressions of concern imop. They are seen as manifestation of paternalism, where men declare they will have to make decisions on behalf of women out of concern for their welfare, and in their own best interests (because women cannot be trusted to make those decisions themselves). Women are aware of the risks, parents are aware, they have decided to play, its not your role to second guess them.

(2) Do you accept that for an off-season AFLW, by 2028+, to eventually attract significantly higher crowds & ratings (ie average 14,000+ per game; average 400,000+ ratings per game), there will be a need for:-
. much higher levels of skilful kicking, marking, running bounces & link-up play
. increase in average scoring by at least 33%+ (same 15 min.+ qtrs)
. much less congestion & stoppages
. more free flowing game style

No.
2 reasons. Firstly, much of the opposition to the AFLW, and the `not watching that crap` responses, are couched in the language of skill, scoring, spectacle of the game, but this is really just a rationale. These people do not rate it because its women, they will never rate it, and there is no point trying to come up with a product that meets the criteria of what they say they want. They will not watch regardless. Fan numbers of AFLW will be largely driven by sporting tribalism (those that support their club, come what may), and supporters of womens sport. There are no legions of footy fans waiting to take up AFLW, if only they kicked more goals, or took more marks. What will bring fans is demographic change that sees a growing number of people that are not forced to curl up into a foetal position at the thought of womens football, and good marketing playing on club loyalty.
Secondly, I think the affect of scoring on the appeal of football, both in the mens game, and the womens game, is overstated. High scoring football is not automatically attractive or interesting football. Imop, low contested easy transition of the ball from one end of the ground to the other with little pressure, starts to look like a training drill, and is as attractive as one. Footy, without the contest, is like ultimate frisby with a ball. AFLX is free flowing, and its s**t.
The solution, if one is needed, to fix AFLW skill levels, and scoring, and congestion, is Prespakis, Parker, Morrison et al. These are players with much surer touch, better ability in congestion, better decision making, and better disposal skills than most existing players, and next years draftees look like they could be better already.

There is a quote about critics of womens sport that sums it up. When men are crap, its because they are crap, but when women are crap, its because they are women. There is nothing inherently wrong with womens football that cannot be put down to the fact they have to many, not very good footballers, and which cannot be fixed by, more good footballers. The game itself does not need to change.

You are an expression of my worst fear about where AFLW is going. People in offices looking at ratings, and comments on AFL pages deciding they need to manage the AFLW like its a fashion line, and has to have exactly the right look to appeal. And they start cutting and shaping and meddling trying to force it to look like their focus group says it should. At that point, it stops being a true sport imop, and becomes a stage show.

The mention of Malthouses comments should note that he also said his daughters would not play because the game was too rough. Did that influence his opinion - Likely because he mentioned it but will leave that point for the readers to ponder.

 

[jatz14]

The mention of Malthouses comments should note that he also said his daughters would not play because the game was too rough. Did that influence his opinion - Likely because he mentioned it but will leave that point for the readers to ponder.

Lots of women find it to rough. Lots of women will always find it to rough. I know men that find it to rough. You cannot change the sport so it suits everybody.

 

[jatz14]

A quote Ive never seen anywhere, but a sentiment commonly expressed by people trying to label critics of womens sport. Regardless of what the criticisim is.

No, a quote used to specifically describe the phenomena of people watching a game, or a player, or even 5 minutes of a game, then dismissing the entirety of a womens sport. People watching a bad game of womens football and walking away saying all womens football is crap, never watch a bad game of mens football and walk away saying mens football is crap. Even better, is the guy who tells you all womens football is crap, before admitting he has NEVER watched even part of a game.

The game is not beyond criticism by people that can see it for what it is. There has been a lot of justifiable criticism, there will be more justifiable criticism to come. The quote references critics, of which they are many, whos hostility is rooted in the fact its womens sport, and any flaw in any player is immediately referenced back to gender. Miss a goal, women cannot kick, miss a tackle, women cannot tackle, get hurt, women are to soft. Never heard anybody say, Casboult missed a goal, men cannot kick.

 

[owen87]

No, a quote used to specifically describe the phenomena of people watching a game, or a player, or even 5 minutes of a game, then dismissing the entirety of a womens sport. People watching a bad game of womens football and walking away saying all womens football is crap, never watch a bad game of mens football and walk away saying mens football is crap. Even better, is the guy who tells you all womens football is crap, before admitting he has NEVER watched even part of a game.

The game is not beyond criticism by people that can see it for what it is. There has been a lot of justifiable criticism, there will be more justifiable criticism to come. The quote references critics, of which they are many, whos hostility is rooted in the fact its womens sport, and any flaw in any player is immediately referenced back to gender. Miss a goal, women cannot kick, miss a tackle, women cannot tackle, get hurt, women are to soft. Never heard anybody say, Casboult missed a goal, men cannot kick.

You might see that reaction to their first time watching soccer, rugby, or gridiron however.

AFLW isn't necessarily competing with or comparable to AFL, in many ways it's a standalone sport and league that is leveraging off traditional club ties to try to build an audience. The problem is that people watch AFLW expecting it to look like AFL, when in reality it probably never will.

The standard will improve, young draftees can basically walk straight in to the AFLW and perform unlike 18 year olds coming in the AFL, so the skill should trend upwards even with the addition of new teams - or so I hope at least.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Some more information about the resilient Ms. Arianna Clarke.

The small (population c.3000) WA outback mining town of Kambalda has produced 3 AFLW draftees!
This includes M.Dowrick, who played with boys up to U16! I am surprised permission was granted for her to play.

I am aware that some boys, from U8 - U12, don't like tackling girls in AF matches.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...ining-town-of-kambalda/10420146?section=sport

 

[jatz14]

You might see that reaction to their first time watching soccer, rugby, or gridiron however.

AFLW isn't necessarily competing with or comparable to AFL, in many ways it's a standalone sport and league that is leveraging off traditional club ties to try to build an audience. The problem is that people watch AFLW expecting it to look like AFL, when in reality it probably never will.

The standard will improve, young draftees can basically walk straight in to the AFLW and perform unlike 18 year olds coming in the AFL, so the skill should trend upwards even with the addition of new teams - or so I hope at least.

This is the crux of the argument. Quality of games needs to improve, but is this a problem for the AFL to fix by tinkering, or is it just part of the natural progression of the game best left to play out.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[jatz14]

Some more information about the resilient Ms. Arianne Clarke.

The small (population c.3000) WA outback mining town of Kambalda has produced 3 AFLW draftees!
This includes M.Dowrick, who played with boys up to U16! I am surprised permission was granted for her to play.

I am aware that some boys, from U8 - U12, don't like tackling girls in AF matches.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10...ining-town-of-kambalda/10420146?section=sport

I have heard of a girl from NSW who played some U16 boys games as a 14 year old.

I played a scratch match that incorporated a mens master rules team and a team of 14 year old girls (who were unconnected to the guys in the men's team). It's amazing what can be done successfully if you just go ahead and do it.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[BringBackTorps]

The problem is that people watch AFLW expecting it to look like AFL, when in reality it probably never will.

We should never compare women's sport to men's, due to the physical differences. In that context, one can derive enjoyment in both. We don't dismiss a men's bantamweight boxing match, by saying " the bantam would be knocked out in about 45 seconds by a heavyweight, so it's not enjoyable watching a bantam match".
AFLW average skills will eventually (but only if the AFLW becomes fully professional) become very similar to men's, thus the skills will be comparable. We simply know that average kicking distances by men will always be greater than for women's.

The fact that AFLW matches are often scheduled during the day (as opposed to evenings, in summer) is also a huge burden for the AFLW, & skill execution. Playing in strong heat (over 25 degrees) and/or humidity has a deleterious effect on skills- sweaty hands/sweat & suntan lotion getting into one's eyes; sun getting into one's eyes; more fatigue.

I have heard of a girl from NSW who played some U16 boys games as a 14 year old.

I played a scratch match that incorporated a mens master rules team and a team of 14 year old girls (who were unconnected to the guys in the men's team). It's amazing what can be done successfully if you just go ahead and do it.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

I assumed there would be insurance issues playing mixed matches after U14 -and the strength differential is too unfair/dangerous also. The "Unduly Rough Play" Rule would be almost impossible to apply.

 

[melbournemartin]

I just came back from the USAFL nationals and there are roughly half as many womens teams as mens teams, which I think is a great sign! Most are American too, not just Aussie expats (for both men and women).

A lot of the women are very fit and have a soccer background but are interested in something with more physical contact.

 

[BringBackTorps]

This insightful article deals with the disturbing big fall in general sports' participation & fitness levels, & the rise in obesity. AF is an exception, as it is having strong growth in most areas around Aust. (but male nos. in Tas., & smaller rural/regional towns in Vic., WA, SA are struggling).

I wasn't sure where to put it, but it is relevant here.

It has long been known that in all organised sports, females have fewer players; & drop out in much bigger nos. than boys, from the age of 14.
AF Organisations can use this linked information, re fitness & obesity levels, to argue more strongly for govt./council support to build more AF ovals/improved facilities- & create female AF facilities.

There are always many competing interests for govt./council funding, so sport can easily miss out. Also, there appears to be an increasing backlash from greenie groups who oppose bushland or "passive recreation reserves" being converted to AF ovals (which they argue also often require "intrusive, ugly pavilions & lights, interfering with the natural environment & vistas").

https://www.footyalmanac.com.au/spo...nging-lifestyles-and-declining-participation/

 

[BringBackTorps]

(1) As it is indisputable that the very high profile & success of the AFLW is turbocharging the great growth in GR female AF nos. around Australia, I've included this here.

ABC TV 24 Hour News 13.12.18 V. Trioli Breakfast Program
"ALL AFLW matches in 2019 will be broadcast LIVE- on either Fox or Ch.7".

A huge boost for the AFLW. Very good development by the AFL for female AF. Broadcast Rights $ were not mentioned.

(2) The 2019 season will see a significant increase in Irish women on AFLW Lists. Only Gaelic Football superstar C. Staunton was listed in 2018, nil in 2017.

Former Irish Melb. AFLW player, L. Corrigan Duryea, has been in Aust. for c.10 years, & is a citizen.
" ...it (AF- my words) suited her physical style of play more than her native game (Gaelic Football- my words)"

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader...m/news-story/d31285151c479c86f007131402e5bcdf

The GAA & County Kerry are devising concrete plans to reduce/halt the flow of elite teenage male & female Irish players to the AFL & AFLW.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-12-12/irish-kingdom-leads-fight-against-aussie-poachers

Sth. Melb. FC VAFA teams (& some other clubs) have many amateur Irish adult female & male emigrant/backpacker players.
There are healthy GAA competitions in Melb., with their fully owned large HQ/Function Rooms/playing fields in Keysborough.
It is my understanding that most of these Sth Melb. FC Irish adults chose AF as they very much enjoy the strong physicality of AF, cf. the non-contact sports.

Interestingly, Ireland has a very strong RU team- easily accounting for Aust. in the 2018 Series in Aust. and, amazingly, also defeated NZ. The very high profile of this successful Irish RU team could act as a competitor to AF, therefore, for young, male elite Irish athletes who prefer a body contact sport. They can remain in Ireland, & have a professional RU career (including for Pro 14 Munster, Leinster, Connacht, & Ulster clubs etc.)

Irish Hawthorn player C. Nash has even suggested that AFL clubs should be forced to pay transfer fees to Irish GAA clubs if their players move to the AFL.
Amazingly, Nash (who had the chance to study Medicine) was a star in Gaelic Football, starred for the Ireland U 18 RU team & was offered a professional contract to play RU for Leinster in the European Pro 14 comp.- but chose the foreign sport of AF 21,000 km from his homeland!
He is part of the 2019 record of 14 Irish players in the AFL.

https://www.the42.ie/conor-nash-interview-hawthorn-afl-3384603-May2017/

The obvious similarities between Gaelic Football & AF- & the chance to be a professional sport person- are the main reasons (in addition to preferring a body contact sport) this cohort playing AF is likely to grow.

 

[TWLS]

(1) As it is indisputable that the very high profile & success of the AFLW is turbocharging the great growth in GR female AF nos. around Australia, I've included this here.

ABC TV 24 Hour News 13.12.18 V. Trioli Breakfast Program
"ALL AFLW matches in 2019 will be broadcast LIVE- on either Fox or Ch.7".

A huge boost for the AFLW. Very good development by the AFL for female AF. Broadcast Rights $ were not mentioned.

(2) The 2019 season will see a significant increase in Irish women on AFLW Lists. Only Gaelic Football superstar C. Staunton was listed in 2018, nil in 2017.

Former Irish Melb. AFLW player, L. Corrigan Duryea, has been in Aust. for c.10 years, & is a citizen.
" ...it (AF- my words) suited her physical style of play more than her native game (Gaelic Football- my words)"

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader...m/news-story/d31285151c479c86f007131402e5bcdf

The GAA & County Kerry are devising concrete plans to reduce/halt the flow of elite teenage male & female Irish players to the AFL & AFLW.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-12-12/irish-kingdom-leads-fight-against-aussie-poachers

Sth. Melb. FC VAFA teams (& some other clubs) have many amateur Irish adult female & male emigrant/backpacker players.
There are healthy GAA competitions in Melb., with their fully owned large HQ/Function Rooms/playing fields in Keysborough.
It is my understanding that most of these Sth Melb. FC Irish adults chose AF as they very much enjoy the strong physicality of AF, cf. the non-contact sports.

Interestingly, Ireland has a very strong RU team- easily accounting for Aust. in the 2018 Series in Aust. and, amazingly, also defeated NZ. The very high profile of this successful Irish RU team could act as a competitor to AF, therefore, for young, male elite Irish athletes who prefer a body contact sport. They can remain in Ireland, & have a professional RU career (including for Pro 14 Munster, Leinster, Connacht, & Ulster clubs etc.)

Irish Hawthorn player C. Nash has even suggested that AFL clubs should be forced to pay transfer fees to Irish GAA clubs if their players move to the AFL.
Amazingly Nash, who had the chance to study Medicine, was a star in Gaelic Football, starred for the Ireland U 18 RU team & was offered a professional contract to play RU for Leinster in the European Pro 14 comp., chose the foreign sport of AF 21,000 km from his homeland!
He is part of the 2019 record of 14 Irish players in the AFL & AFLW.

https://www.the42.ie/conor-nash-interview-hawthorn-afl-3384603-May2017/

The obvious similarities between Gaelic Football & AF- & the chance to be a professional sport person- are the main reasons (in addition to preferring a body contact sport) this cohort playing AF is likely to grow.

After some research it appears that the Irish Rugby Union has signed regular contracts only with its top Women players who only play in the Sevens world comps leading up to the next Olympics.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/42702.php#.XBIvlOJS_cd

The 15 a side Women players receive part time payments not regular contracts.

Have no fear the AFLW will continue to attract some Women players from overseas where there are limited numbers playing anyhow at present.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Fitzroy JFC and its senior women's affiliated club, Fitzroy-Australian Catholic University, will likely have the biggest female combined junior & senior female nos. in Australia.
The link below, about the calibre of their coaches & their female coaching philosophies, provides an insight into their hugely successful female recruiting/ retention strategies.

https://www.fitzroyfc.com.au/latest-news/coaching-double-act-for-fitzroy-acu

 

[BringBackTorps]

(1)There will be another good increase in GR AF regd. nos. in NSW in 2018.

The Willoughby JFC (Sydney North Shore) has announced a record 526 Club competition players in 2018 (not including 144+ Club Auskickers)- despite the inconvenience of losing their home ground in 2018. WJFC added inaugural U10 & U12 girls' teams in 2018, to their other existing female teams. WJFC nos. have increased by c. 80% since 2010.

They have a Joint Venture, with some teams, with nearby Mosman (The large Mosman JFC regd. nos. are not included in above)- this has been very helpful in maximising female & male participation.
The Joint Venture "... provides an...environment at the right level of competition for the varying levels of talent...allows individual kids to get MORE POSSESSIONS (my emphases) and be involved...keeps kids enjoying their footy and playing longer...one of the dominant winter sporting codes played on the North Shore".

http://wildcatsafl.com/presidents-report-2018-agm/

(2) Ex St Kilda captain N.Bourke has much experience in coaching female GR soccer & AF female teams; & now is an Ass. Coach for St Kilda's VFLW team.

This SEN link asks the rhetorical question: Can we assume that if an adult jnr. coach of boys' AF teams has been successful for over 10 years, that "... the way he has coached the boys has been successful, so why should the girls be different? Big mistake. Girls are different- not better or worse, just different".

Bourke outlines here the differences in AF coaching of females cf. males.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/02/06/burkeys-guide-on-how-to-coach-girls/

 

[TWLS]

(1)There will be another good increase in GR AF regd. nos. in NSW in 2018.

The Willoughby JFC (Sydney North Shore) has announced a record 526 Club competition players in 2018 (not including 144+ Club Auskickers)- despite the inconvenience of losing their home ground in 2018. WJFC added inaugural U10 & U12 girls' teams in 2018, to their other existing female teams. WJFC nos. have increased by c. 80% since 2010.

They have a Joint Venture, with some teams, with nearby Mosman (The large Mosman JFC regd. nos. are not included in above)- this has been very helpful in maximising female & male participation.
The Joint Venture "... provides an...environment at the right level of competition for the varying levels of talent...allows individual kids to get MORE POSSESSIONS (my emphases) and be involved...keeps kids enjoying their footy and playing longer...one of the dominant winter sporting codes played on the North Shore".

http://wildcatsafl.com/presidents-report-2018-agm/

(2) Ex St Kilda captain N.Bourke has much experience in coaching female GR soccer & AF female teams; & now is an Ass. Coach for St Kilda's VFLW team.

This SEN link asks the rhetorical question: Can we assume that if an adult jnr. coach of boys' AF teams has been successful for over 10 years, that "... the way he has coached the boys has been successful, so why should the girls be different? Big mistake. Girls are different- not better or worse, just different".

Bourke outlines here the differences in AF coaching of females cf. males.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/02/06/burkeys-guide-on-how-to-coach-girls/

Good find on the Wildcats AFL Club on the North Shore of Sydney, who will be playing on their refurbished home ground in 2019.
The new Gore Hill Oval project looks to be first class, and is primarily for Aussie Rules and Cricket.
http://www.glascott.com.au/gore-hill-park-sees-oval-takes-shape/

 

[BringBackTorps]

Ailish Considine, elite Irish Gaelic Football player (who also has represented Ireland in AF) has been drafted, on a Rookie contract, by Adelaide AFLW team.

She has stated, re her reasons for playing AF:-

."the two codes require a pretty similar skill set".
."the chance of being a professional athlete was a huge draw for me".

and
."the interest is bigger in the Crosscoders program for next year"
(For overseas- based elite female athletes. Will overseas females surpass the 14 Irishmen-mainly Rookies- on AFL Lists in 2020?).
.Eimear Considine (Ailish's older sister) has played numerous sports, & now plays rep RU for Ireland.
Ailish said, re the chance of Eimear playing AF in Aust. "She might join me here if I stay".

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-01-01/aflw-irish-ailish-getting-her-kicks-around-the-corner

It is interesting that in Ireland, UK, NZ & Canada , there are growing nos. of women who want to play a contact sport ie RU. (I don't know if jnr. girls play RU in big nos. there).
How relevant is it that all these countries are, primarily, anglo/celtic?
These countries could become future, fertile recruiting grounds for AFLW rookies, via the overseas Crosscoder Try-out Combines.

Female RU & RL in Australia are also experiencing strong growth, off a low base- which will hurt AF recruitment in NSW, Qld, & the ACT.

This female body-contact sport phenomenon does not appear to have developed in the US- where, re Gridiron, "very few high schools or colleges offer the sport solely for women and girls". Also, the US does not have the huge adult community club sporting culture that Australia possesses (for males or females).
The US "lingerie" women's gridiron league is an embarrassment for the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_American_football

 

[Carringbush2010]

The US "lingerie" women's gridiron league is an embarrassment for the US.

I'd imagine that those that play would disagree with you.

 

[jatz14]

I'd imagine that those that play would disagree with you.

No, not really. It's the only way they get to play in a pro standard female American football league. I have seen a few interviews with players, and haven't seen any that regard the attire as anything other than an evil they have to put up with.

It's also a league regularly in dispute with the players over conditions and the lack of pay.

Players seem to get treated with the respect you would expect from a group of guys that would come up with the concept of lingerie football.

I don't think it should be banned or anything, and the women are exercising free will, but it is built on a simple concept.
In a country with a couple of hundred million women, and no decent women's American football, you will always be able to find a hundred or 2 women willing to put up with a few seasons of crap to play.

They don't need to keep their players happy or treat them as anything other than a commodity, as they can always be replaced.

If your not body conscious, or your a bit of an exhibitionist, you might even enjoy playing for them. This doesn't change what the league is though.

I have always thought the AFL should chase them to switch. Last I heard, they got paid nothing, AFLW conditions and protections are a mile better, and there aren't rules about things like makeup (this alone shows it's not a real sports comp).

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