Traded 2018 Live Trade: Carlton trade #4 (2019) to Adelaide for #19 (2018) and #9 (2019)

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From what I heard we were always going Milera. Lacking speed and ball use at the time and thats exactly what he provides.
Also being an SA kid, it was fairly well a no-brainer.

I mean Curnow, Hipwood, Himmelberg were all available when we picked up Milera.

Few of Clubs went Cold on him after his health scare, Crows kept in contact with him. Rumour has it he would not get passed the Crows 1st pick which proved to be true. and that the Crows thought he may have been picked earlier. Believed Gold Coast bid on Hopper help a lot. forcing GWS to use the 1st on Hopper.
Crows where looking at H McKay for the 2nd pick along with Curnow, H Himmelberg and Doedee.
 
Jul 14, 2005
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Quick reminder of the Goal averages for last season:

C. Curnow 1.7
E. Hipwood 1.7
H. McKay 1.6
H. Himmelberg 1.3
S. Wiedeman 1.0

Only behind Hipwood due to being our second main target and playing in an awful team. He’s also the youngest of that group, and missed almost his entire first season (doesn’t get the Gallucci pass of ‘not good enough’) through injury.

We’ve arguably got the best two key forwards of that 2015 draft, and have just added another marking target.

We’re very happy with how our key forward stocks sit.
 
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Quick reminder of the Goal averages for this season:

C. Curnow 1.7
E. Hipwood 1.7
H. McKay 1.6
H. Himmelberg 1.3
S. Wiedeman 1.0

Only behind Hipwood due to being our second main target and playing in an awful team. He’s also the youngest of that group, and missed almost his entire first season (doesn’t get the Gallucci pass of ‘not good enough’) through injury.

We’ve arguably got the best two key forwards of that 2015 draft, and have just added another marking target.

We’re very happy with how our key forward stocks sit.

Sorry mate had to laugh big time about the bolded part.
Did you know that Gallucci had a shoulder injury in the 2017 pre Season resulting in him missing a few games at the start, and he Broke his jaw at the back half of the year? Gallucci played 13 SANFL, 3 Byes 1 AFL, 1 Emerg Shoulder in the preseason missing a fair chunk of the preseason, 2 games missed, then shin problems 1 game missed restricted training, a solid run in the SANFL 1 game AFL 1 Game Emerg, Broken jaw missing 1 game plus 3 finals.
H McKay was Injured most of the year. H McKay Play 12 VFL, 3 byes , and 2 AFL, he was injured at the start of 2017 2 games (back) and end of 2017 4 games (toe)
And yet you managed to find an injury excuse for H McKay not playing many AFL games.
It Funny because nobody has used injuries as an excuse for Gallucci not playing in 2017 all we say is he simply could not force his way into the team. Because if you are fit enough to play 12 SANFL or VFL games you not injured for almost the entire season.


Again wait until they have played 50 games. H McKay could be better than Curnow
 
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Sorry mate had to laugh big time about the bolded part.
Did you know that Gallucci had a shoulder injury in the 2017 pre Season resulting in him missing a few games at the start, and he Broke his jaw at the back half of the year? Gallucci played 13 SANFL, 3 Byes 1 AFL, 1 Emerg Shoulder in the preseason missing a fair chunk of the preseason, 2 games missed, then shin problems 1 game missed restricted training, a solid run in the SANFL 1 game AFL 1 Game Emerg, Broken jaw missing 1 game plus 3 finals.
H McKay was Injured most of the year. H McKay Play 12 VFL, 3 byes , and 2 AFL, he was injured at the start of 2017 2 games (back) and end of 2017 4 games (toe)
And yet you managed to find an injury excuse for H McKay not playing many AFL games.
It Funny because nobody has used injuries as an excuse for Gallucci not playing in 2017 all we say is he simply could not force his way into the team. Because if you are fit enough to play 12 SANFL or VFL games you not injured for almost the entire season.


Again wait until they have played 50 games. H McKay could be better than Curnow

Yep, all assumption on my part. Good pick up (Y)

I think McKay’s ceiling is higher than Curnow’s given his extra height and athleticism. Just a matter of getting there.
 
Jul 13, 2012
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Quick reminder of the Goal averages for last season:

C. Curnow 1.7
E. Hipwood 1.7
H. McKay 1.6
H. Himmelberg 1.3
S. Wiedeman 1.0

Only behind Hipwood due to being our second main target and playing in an awful team. He’s also the youngest of that group, and missed almost his entire first season (doesn’t get the Gallucci pass of ‘not good enough’) through injury.

We’ve arguably got the best two key forwards of that 2015 draft, and have just added another marking target.

We’re very happy with how our key forward stocks sit.

As I've said previously its the only part of the ground you're well stocked at.
With talent and age profile looking good too.

FYI Gallucci was at 1.0 gpg playing a flankers role. 1.6 is not that impressive for a close to goal KPF.
Curnow played a lot more up the ground.
 
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As I've said previously its the only part of the ground you're well stocked at.
With talent and age profile looking good too.

FYI Gallucci was at 1.0 gpg playing a flankers role. 1.6 is not that impressive for a close to goal KPF.
Curnow played a lot more up the ground.

And yet he’s still ahead of the ‘close to goal’ forwards you alluded to.

1.6 goals for a 20 year-old forward playing second fiddle in the wooden spoon team is a good return.

So does Gallucci play mostly as a forward or not? You seem to change his position depending on which point you want to debate.

12 possessions as a small forward is acceptable, less than a goal is not.

12 possessions as a flanker is poor, while 0.9 goals is acceptable.

So which one is it?
 
Jan 31, 2007
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Short-sighted there, If I was a Carlton supporter I would be looking at Weitering, H McKay, Curow and Fisher and Judging the recruitment staff on them, not just 2 players who has gone OK. But again it too early to call inst it.

The story presented was that Crows posters can sleep easy on their recruiters, while Carlton supporters should have no confidence theirs. If this this story had merit, it’s not a big ask to expect that out of the 3 exposed drafts since SOS took over, the Crows would at least have taken the better performed player more often with their first pick than Carlton did with their next available pick.
 
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So it seems...
You cant bring stats into it and then just ignore the other ones.
He's not doing anything with his 7 extra disposals, which is clearly evident from the metres gained stat.

In your world, a player could disposses an opponent, win back the hard ball, deftly handball it out of the pack 15m to a free player in the corridor, and he’d have “done nothing” because the handball went sideways instead of forward.

What’s clearly evident here is that you don’t understand what the stat tells us and what it doesn’t.
 
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In your world, a player could disposses an opponent, win back the hard ball, deftly handball it out of the pack 15m to a free player in the corridor, and he’d have “done nothing” because the handball went sideways instead of forward.

What’s clearly evident here is that you don’t understand what the stat tells us and what it doesn’t.

The stats combined tell us that Gallucci gains a lot more ground per disposal even though he plays forward and not midfield.
Thats all it tells us.

Which is why originally when someone brought up the 7 more disposals stat it meant just as little.
 
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The story presented was that Crows posters can sleep easy on their recruiters, while Carlton supporters should have no confidence theirs. If this this story had merit, it’s not a big ask to expect that out of the 3 exposed drafts since SOS took over, the Crows would at least have taken the better performed player more often with their first pick than Carlton did with their next available pick.

How about using a later pick to take a better player?


2015: Milera > Wietering... Doedee > McKay
2016: Gallucci > SPS
2017: Fogarty > Dow

Not hard to make a case for any of them being better than the player that Carlton picked before them, often 10 picks before them.
A long way to go in all of their careers though.

I notice you chose the term "better performed" like getting gifted games at Carlton means that theyre suddenly better players.
 
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How about using a later pick to take a better player?


2015: Milera > Wietering... Doedee > McKay
2016: Gallucci > SPS
2017: Fogarty > Dow

Not hard to make a case for any of them being better than the player that Carlton picked before them, often 10 picks before them.
A long way to go in all of their careers though.

I notice you chose the term "better performed" like getting gifted games at Carlton means that theyre suddenly better players.
Is this serious?
 
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Is this serious?

The fact that you're even questioning that is a worry for you.

I'll say it for the fourth(?) time. Just because we dont automatically pick draftees doesnt mean theyre not very very good players.
These players would've been picked every week for CFC, every single one if available. Its part of your problem. The kids get games no matter how well they're developing.

Remembering you have had spots for guys like Kerridge, Buckley and Graham in the past.
 
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The fact that you're even questioning that is a worry for you.

I'll say it for the fourth(?) time. Just because we dont automatically pick draftees doesnt mean theyre not very very good players.
These players would've been picked every week for CFC, every single one if available. Its part of your problem. The kids get games no matter how well they're developing.

Remembering you have had spots for guys like Kerridge, Buckley and Graham in the past.
That's the past my friend, the trouble is you Adelaide people worry about the past far to often. It's going to come and bite you on the arse quicker than you all think.
 
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The stats combined tell us that Gallucci gains a lot more ground per disposal even though he plays forward and not midfield.
Thats all it tells us.

What on earth does gaining “more ground per disposal” have to do with overall performance? Gallucci “gained more ground per disposal” than Patrick Cripps and Tom Mitchell in 2018. That’s how useless a measurement it is.
 
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What on earth does gaining “more ground per disposal” have to do with overall performance? Gallucci “gained more ground per disposal” than Patrick Cripps and Tom Mitchell in 2018. That’s how useless a measurement it is.

Well on its own what does getting 6 more disposals a game playing a different position have to do with overall performance.
Metres gained is a far more important stat than straight up disposals. Usually they would be used in conjunction along with a plethora of other stats.

Is Fisher an inside midfielder like those 2 you mentioned?
No... he isnt. Of course inside mids would have less metres gained. Fisher is not an inside mid.

I dont think you understand that what you're doing now about this stat, is exactly how you should've been with the straight up disposals stat.

Point being any stat on its own doesnt tell you anything.

Also metres gained is part of Cripps/Mitchell's problem. Their kicking isnt as good as it could be. I'm sure they will both improve and being elite in other facets means they're still high quality players overall.
 
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SPS is a shitload better than Gallucci, and I’d take Dow over Fogarty.

For 2015 I’d go Curnow>McKay>Weitering>Doedee>Milera

Dow over Fogarty.
Ill bookmark that. Dow is a vanilla player. Fogarty has the ability to be an absolute superstar. His ceiling is so much higher.

Look I get you guys dont see much of crows players, especially when they cant crack the side, but you may well be proven wrong.

You're getting down to opinions now. The thing is the CFC players have exposed form whereas the crows ones dont because they have to fight for a position.

You dont think Gallucci if he played for CFC would've had similar if not better stats to SPS?
15 disposals 3 marks a game over first 40 games isnt setting the world alight.
 
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That's the past my friend, the trouble is you Adelaide people worry about the past far to often. It's going to come and bite you on the arse quicker than you all think.

The past = last season... well I guess you're right.
Doesnt mean your 2018 draftees wont be gifted games.
Doesnt mean you still wont have rubbish players getting a game.

I know you're getting rid of them bit by bit after having a list full of them, but you're not done yet.
 
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Well on its own what does getting 6 more disposals a game playing a different position have to do with overall performance.
Metres gained is a far more important stat than straight up disposals.

What Fisher does with the disposals? Namely winning the ball, providing a link up option - which, yes, results in some shorter disposals - and setting up play.

Metres gained is handy, but another stat that gets bandied around with much thought as to what is being produced with those disposals.

Your implication is that Gallucci is more constructive with his disposal (based on his metres gained), but the reality is 5 of those 12 disposals are ineffective, effectively making that stat redundant.
 
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Dow over Fogarty.
Ill bookmark that.

Look I get you guys dont see much of crows players, especially when they cant crack the side, but you may well be proven wrong.

You're getting down to opinions now. The thing is the CFC players have exposed form whereas the crows ones dont because they have to fight for a position.

You dont think Gallucci if he played for CFC would've had similar if not better stats to SPS?

I think Gallucci would be getting similar stats to someone like Polson, if we were playing him in the fashion Adelaide are - which, as you’re implying is as a small forward. SPS is a midfielder.

Gallucci doesn’t have a huge amount of competition as an outside mid. Atkins and Mackay are still getting games, and these guys are very average.
 
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I think Gallucci would be getting similar stats to someone like Polson, if we were playing him in the fashion Adelaide are - which, as you’re implying is as a small forward. SPS is a midfielder.

Gallucci doesn’t have a huge amount of competition as an outside mid. Atkins and McKay are still getting games, and these guys are very average.

Point is Gallucci would be playing midfield for CFC.
He cant get a gig in there for us. In the future he will if he keeps developing at the rate he is.

I agree they're average overall. Mackay is a little underrated (and our fans whipping boy). He is a lot better player than a lot give him credit for.
Atkins has a level of brilliance but agreed he isnt a great player.
The idea is that both of these guys will be on the outer going forward (hopefully in 2019), with Gallucci and our 2018 draftees taking their spots.
 
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Dow over Fogarty.
Ill bookmark that. Dow is a vanilla player. Fogarty has the ability to be an absolute superstar. His ceiling is so much higher.

Dow is anything but vanilla. Has great speed and power.

Mackay and Atkins are what I’d describe as vanilla - average players who are slightly soft and largely ineffectual.
 
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