All Elite Wrestling

[Rusty Brookes]

TNA was in good Shape in 2007-9, Yes they were only getting 30-50,000 PPV buy rates but Spike TV was paying them 10 million a year for TNA impact shows and they were getting 1-1.5 million viewers each week.

Every report I've read has suggested TNA is heavily in debt without any real method of generating revenue. It seems like they were staying in business for either vanity reasons and/or waiting for a buyout from WWE. I've got no idea on the economics of TV but $10 per viewer sounds incredibly expensive to me.

Good luck with that. This isn't the 1980s anymore with the UWF Promote by Bill Watts. The smart marks were a minority in the 1980s, they are the majority in the 2010s.

The smart marks were all over Mid South/UWF - it consistently rated high in the Wrestling Observer awards. My point is any new promotion should have a totally different approach to the current WWE product. I watched Smackdown the other day and it was one nonsensical angle after another. As someone who now probably qualifies as a casual fan, it did absolutely nothing in terms of making me want to watch it again and/or buy an WWE product. I still think having a promotion that took itself a bit more seriously (while still having room for angles etc) could be profitable.

As for the "rally" it screamed low rent and will do absolutely nothing in terms of generating casual fan interest. Chris Jericho is a top talent and has been for years and I love him to bits as a performer but will he really generate long-term interest in a new promotion?

At the moment, AEW feels very similar to Global Force Wrestling and we all know how that ended. I hope I'm wrong

 

[RossFC]

Every report I've read has suggested TNA is heavily in debt without any real method of generating revenue. It seems like they were staying in business for either vanity reasons and/or waiting for a buyout from WWE. I've got no idea on the economics of TV but $10 per viewer sounds incredibly expensive to me.

Isn't WWE getting 200mil a year for Raw even though they get under 2mil views?

 

[Rusty Brookes]

Isn't WWE getting 200mil a year for Raw even though they get under 2mil views?

That might be the case. As I noted, I don't have any idea of the figures involved in TV. I'd take it all with a grain of salt though.

 

[Andrew Birch]

JANELA BABY!

+ The Bad Girl!

 

[RossFC]

If AEW takes off, I'm making this my profile picture down the line.

 

[Freomaniac]

Isn't WWE getting 200mil a year for Raw even though they get under 2mil views?

yeah they are. even smackdown live got signed a similar deal too

 

[Freomaniac]

I don't think trying to challenge or compete with the WWE is the idea of AEW, I doubt the people involved are thinking like that. The one thing that AEW will do better than TNA is have a bigger lure for actual talent, not washed up / fired superstars from WWE.

People Bag Out TNA for getting washed up/fired superstars from WWE, some did ok such as Matt Morgan, Booker T and Christian. I didn't mind TNA getting some WWE rejects as long as you can book them well. Book them properly and you boost ratings on the tv and sell tickets which in turn makes money.

Back in the mid 1980s, NWA/WCW poached a lot of talent from Bill Watts UWF and Championship wrestling from Florida. While at the same time the WWE took a lot of talent from American Wrestling Association, the NWA and UWF as well.

Back in the mid 1990s, WWE got 2 wcw rejects to eventually turn their fortunes around: Steve Austin and Mick Foley.

 

[Colonial]

People Bag Out TNA for getting washed up/fired superstars from WWE, some did ok such as Matt Morgan, Booker T and Christian. I didn't mind TNA getting some WWE rejects as long as you can book them well. Book them properly and you boost ratings on the tv and sell tickets which in turn makes money.

Back in the mid 1980s, NWA/WCW poached a lot of talent from Bill Watts UWF and Championship wrestling from Florida. While at the same time the WWE took a lot of talent from American Wrestling Association, the NWA and UWF as well.

Back in the mid 1990s, WWE got 2 wcw rejects to eventually turn their fortunes around: Steve Austin and Mick Foley.

I have no idea what Christian did to McMahon but it must of really pissed him off.
Had the talent to go the same trajectory as Edge.
Only got the title in the end as a favour to Copeland and even then they changed the story so Christian was stuffed.

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[Senor M]

I have no idea what Christian did to McMahon but it must of really posses him off.
Had the talent to go the same trajectory as Edge.
Only got the title in the end as a favour to Copeland and even then they changed the story so Christian was stuffed.

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According to Bruce Prichard on STWW, he's stated on multiple occasions that Vince McMahon never felt that Christian's character and personality was 'larger than life". He felt that Christian just didn't look right-- particularly his face, just didn't look attractive. Bruce's favourite story to tell about Christian (I think I've heard it in like 3 different episodes now) is that Vince once pitched to the writers room to make Christian's character a face with a "blue dot" that would always cover it-- making him a 'mystery man'.

 

[Damon_3388]

+ The Bad Girl!

View attachment 603189

Good to see them still working together, even though they've now broken up IRL.

 

[Freomaniac]

I have no idea what Christian did to McMahon but it must of really posses him off.
Had the talent to go the same trajectory as Edge.
Only got the title in the end as a favour to Copeland and even then they changed the story so Christian was stuffed.

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Scary thing was I remembered Christians departure like it was yesterday I rented the Taboo Tuesday PPV on DVD in 2005. Someone did an interview on him on why he was leaving the WWE. It was in the extras of that DVD. Christian said he didn't want to comment too much on it. Just in case they do a self destruction of Christian DVD. Yes the Self destruction of the Ultimate warrior was released at the time.

He was Signed to TNA 2 weeks later as Christian Cage.

I got a good feeling why Christian (Cage) Left. He was on the Smackdown roster. Yes John Cena was he world champion in that SmackDown roster and guys like Undertaker, JBL and Eddie Guerrero were main eventers in Smackdown PPVs in the last 18-24 months. Christian thought that he was ready to be a main eventer and have a run with a world title. McMahon didn't and thought he was a mid to upper mid carder. Keep in mind in that Wrestlemania which was WM 21 in 2005, John Cena became WWE champ, Batista was World Heavyweight champion on Smackdown. Both blokes sold a lot of Merchandise that year as champs.

So Christian fulfilled the remaining bits of his WWE contract and left the WWE on November 1. He Debuts on TNA impact on November 13 2005, which is sadly the day Eddie Guerrero passed away. Christian did have 2 title runs with the TNA World title.

To Be Brutally honest, Christian was as talented as Edge and could of been a good consistent main eventer as Edge. Christian only had 2 wwe world title reigns. One lasted 2 days the other lasted 28 days.

Edge on the other hand became a world champion 8 times. He had that 1 WWE title reign for a month at the start of 2006. Then had those 7 World Heavyweight title runs where 1 or 2 lasted 4 months and the others lasted 1-2 months.

 

[offtherails9]

I have no idea what Christian did to McMahon but it must of really pissed him off.
Had the talent to go the same trajectory as Edge.
Only got the title in the end as a favour to Copeland and even then they changed the story so Christian was stuffed.

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Edge was a much better character than Christian, I liked Christian but I dunno. Not on Edge's level. They're both weirdos too but I kinda like em.

 

[Colonial]

Edge was a much better character than Christian, I liked Christian but I dunno. Not on Edge's level. They're both weirdos too but I kinda like em.

I think Edge was the better heel but Christian could portray the better face.

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[offtherails9]

I think Edge was the better heel but Christian could portray the better face.

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Fair, I feel both were better as heels personally.

 

[Colonial]

Fair, I feel both were better as heels personally.

Absolutely both were better as heels. Edge was a brilliant heel and Christian wasnt far off.

But Edge was a horrible face while Christian I thought was good at it.

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[Blackhawk42]

The E&C podcast is a whole lot of fun too if anybody hasn't checked it out but would like to.
Always considered Christian one of my favourites. Dumbfounded he isn't in the Hall of Fame yet. Multiple time IC champion, light heavyweight champion, ECW champion, European champion, 2x world heavyweight champion and involved in some of the most important matches in WWE history along with Edge.

I wonder if there would be a role for him in AEW doing something? Would be an excellent heel GM style character or even colour commentator. Depends if they want to run with those sorts of characters on the show though.

 

[TradeDraft]

They will go all in trying to sign styles

and What I have Heard AJ might be open to it

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Christian wanted to be a main eventer. By 2005 wrestlers who were younger (John Cena, Randy Orton) or had less runs on the board (Batista) were passing him.

 

[offtherails9]

The E&C podcast is a whole lot of fun too if anybody hasn't checked it out but would like to.
Always considered Christian one of my favourites. Dumbfounded he isn't in the Hall of Fame yet. Multiple time IC champion, light heavyweight champion, ECW champion, European champion, 2x world heavyweight champion and involved in some of the most important matches in WWE history along with Edge.

I wonder if there would be a role for him in AEW doing something? Would be an excellent heel GM style character or even colour commentator. Depends if they want to run with those sorts of characters on the show though.

I think he's happy being on good terms with WWE at the moment. Did work at the PC recently for Shaun and obviously the E&C show on the network. Would also ruin any hope he has of HoF.

Christian wanted to be a main eventer. By 2005 wrestlers who were younger (John Cena, Randy Orton) or had less runs on the board (Batista) were passing him.

Yeah. It's weird because they really seemed to plant seeds for it at the 05 Rumble. Then it only ever turned out to be a triple threat match at Vengeance(?) before Jericho was the challenger. I may have even heard before that he was planned to take the title originally? Not sure. Wrestling would be really different if say Jericho or Angle or even your man Christian took the title off Cena in 05.

 

[Nugett]

Below is my Original post from November 28th



As I've said in another post--maybe I exaggerated a bit on the number of promotions a bit-- but the facts remain the same, there's been plenty of companies who have gone through varying levels of success trying to 'challenge' the WWE. Just because most of those companies weren't particularly successful doesn't mean they weren't saying that they were going to revolutionise the wrestling industry and take on the WWE publicly.

My statement has always been similar-- you are just trying to pull apart the technicalities of my argument because you disagree with my point of view rather than discussing the actual topic at hand.



Who has the AEW signed so far that's knocked back a WWE contract to be with AEW??

All eyes are on Omega. Will he sell out to be a watered down version, will he stay in NJPW? Will he join his mates in AEW. Guess we will all know by the end of the month.

 

[The Casey Cat]

and What I have Heard AJ might be open to it

Yep. Wants a lighter schedule. As we know it's why he dropped the title rather suddenly and Bryan's desire to go heel got a green light.

 

[The Casey Cat]

All eyes are on Omega. Will he sell out to be a watered down version, will he stay in NJPW? Will he join his mates in AEW. Guess we will all know by the end of the month.

He's AEW or NJPW. Or both if they can strike a working relationship. His interview with Tokyo Sports wasn't that conclusive and after a break I could see him suddenly attacking Tanahashi and seeking a rematch possibly as a lone wolf heel.

 

[Deathly]

Yeah, Omega is definitely going to AEW with some NJPW on the side. If it was about money he would of been gone and it all would of been reported by now, especially with all that Young Bucks / Cody money that was probably rolled over into his latest offer. The creative report was it I reckon.

 

[Freomaniac]

They will need big names but I don’t think Goldberg is it and certainly not in a wrestling capacity. CM Punk is the major one they should look at, I think they need to get former big names from WWE to have a shot, guys like Zayn/The Club/Revival will add nothing unless you have some really big names to sell the product.

WWE are also playing a weird game with Jericho, he could add so much to improve the WWE product in a variety of roles and he would be a big lose if he where to sign with AEW.

Im glad Jericho signed with AEW. I could understand Why Chris Jericho chose AEW over WWE.

Now Keep this in Mind Chris Jericho is 48 years old. He could retire right now and not work again after a 15 plus year Career in WWE on a good yearly salary. I know a couple of key factors on why Jericho signed to AEW

1. Creative Freedom. In WWE, McMahon decides whether you win or lose. Plus If Jericho has creative Ideas, creative/bookers wont listen him or if they did listen, they wouldn't use his Ideas. This is Ironic saying that because back in 1996-7, Shawn Michaels wanted to join his mates Hall and Nash in WCW. Vince MacMahon said to HBK, You wont get the creative freedom to do what you ant in WCW. On the other hand Bret Hart had the Chance to go to WCW in 1996 at 2.8 million a year for 3 years. Vince McMahon countered "WCW would never know how to handle bret hart". WWF countered with that now (in)famous 20 year deal at 10.5 million : 1.5 million a year for 3 years as a wrestler. $500,000 a year for 7 years as a senior Adviser or as an agent. $250,000 a year for 10 years as someone on stand by as a worker on the payroll. And Yes I have the Actual Bret Hart Book to prove that. Bret hart leaves the WWF at the end of 1997...... Bret Hart signed with WCW on a 3 year deal at $2.6 million a year. He was booked terribly.


2. Position on the card. had Jericho signed with WWE again in 2019, he would be a mid carder working with Young Talent. He wont head line a WWE PPV anytime soon. I don't mind Jericho signing with AEW. If He is the Elder Statesman or Veteran in the Roster working with the young talent then that's fine. Just like Terry Funk was at ECW in the Mid 1990s working against guys like Shane Douglas, Raven, Sandman etc.

Dunno if they will want to go down the TNA path of taking former WWE guys and centring it around them.

Again I understand what you are saying. If it was guys like Andrew "Test" Martin or Orlando Jordan then Fair enough. But the notable ex-wwe guys that did well in TNA were Christian (Cage) and Kurt Angle. I enjoyed Christians 2 NWA/TNA world title runs. I enjoyed many matches Kurt Angle had and one of them was against Jeff Jarret at Bound for Glory in 2008.

Worked for WCW though, need good writers to go with the big names to make it interesting, still need those big names to compete with WWE

Again, People didn't mind Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage and Hacksaw Jim Duggan joining WCW in 1994. Again, WCW PPV buy rates increased when they were on the card. They drew tickets and sold merchandise as well, helping WCW make more money.

Yet Prior to that Ricky Steam Boat and Rick Rude signed to WCW after they left WWF in late 1991. I have seen their WCW matches in 1992 and hey were way better than that match they had in the WWF in the 1988 Royal Rumble.

Saying that.... I hope AEW just doesn't poach EX-wwe guys. Im ure there are some blokes in Japan and Mexico that might want to join AEW too.

Could also argue the ex-WWE talent WCW brought in also bought about their downfall (Nash, Hogan, etc.)

that is true. Yes we all know about the Finger poke of doom January 4th 1999. Again, WCW from 1988-1992 were losing an average of 5-6 million a year which wasn't much if you are A billionaire like Ted Turner.

They lost like only $800,000 in 1993 or so Bill Watts claims mainly by cutting costs such as Catering and cutting wrestlers salary.

Then they Signed Hogan in 1994, Still lost money Due to Hogans large contract but Bash at the Beach in July, Halloween havoc in October and even Starrcade in December drew good PPV numbers.

1995 they broke even.

1996-8 they made profit.

1999 they lost 15 million

2000 they lost 80 million.

How many WCW main eventers were WWE main eventers first? Goldberg wasn't.

But they don't need Goldberg or other part timers. They need a point of difference from WWE and "all elite, all the time!" would be perfect.

I look back in 2003 where HHH buried every WCW star. Scott Steiner in Royal rumble and No way out, Booker T at WM 19, Kevin Nash as Badd Blood in june/july. Goldberg at summerslam.

CM Punk could be a game changer but I don't think his heart is in wrestling anymore.

Worse thing AEW could do is sign him to a big contact and Punk puts on half assed performances. Kind of like Bret Hart in WCW.

They should stick to young up and coming talent. And try and get some under utilised talent from WWE that are willing to jump ship. A bit like what WWF did to WCW when they poached Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko.

funny you say that. CM punk could make a difference but his motivation has been killed off due to WWE politics Just like Bret hart. I agree with your view on AEW getting some WWE midcarders that look to be potentially good.

Jericho Already made his mind up 6 months before leaving wcw in 1999. When Chris Beniot, Guerrero, Malenko and Perry Saturn signed with the WWF in January of 2000, that was a very good coup. It did give variety to the mid a upper mid card too. Beniot was given a $250,000 a year contract as he had the most potential out of the 4, which I agreed with as Beniot was main eventing WCW nitros and PPVs before he left WCW. The others were on $150,000 a year contracts.

Are you talking about the same Cody Rhodes who just had the worst match of the night at Wrestle Kingdom 13??

Cody is over rated by many-- he does decent character work, has a legacy behind him because of his Dad, but when he comes to actually putting on a good match he is mediocre.

Cody Rhodes will end up being the the Jeff Jarrett of TNA/GFW to AEW if he's not careful-- and you just have to remember how hated Jarrett was in the early TNA wrestling days to know that's not a good thing.

I have only Seen Cody Rhodes matches in wwe and in All in. He is a competent wrestler. I mean When I think of His older Brother Dunstin Rohdes. I think of the Golddust gimmick and I think of his time in WCW from 1990-1995 when he was a decent worker and had a good run with the US belt.

yes but new japan is a very distant number 2 to wwe in pretty much everything. if they try and turn aew into american new japan they wont get close to wwe in any type of $ wise. wwe just signed 2 deals for a combined 2,3billion. for aew to be a success they need a mix of things otherwise they will be roh mk2

I don't Care if AEW becomes ROH mark 2. Hell I don't care if its a TNA/Impact wrestling mark 2.

the 2 things I want AEW to be.

1. An exciting product or at least watchable product to gain interest.

2. In the long term a profitable product. As I said, wcw was losing on average of 5-6 million a year from 1988-1993. The main reason WCW didn't shut down was Ted Turner loved Wrestling.

I didn't say they shouldn't do a mix of things--- a mix of things was what made All in a success.

However how many people purchased tickets or ordered on All in on Fite to see Cody Rhodes Vs Nick Aldis compared to how did to see Kenny Omega and Kazuchika Okada wrestle in the US?

The Elite knows its fan base and will build upon it-- however if they push Cody Rhodes as the face of AEW it will turn many of these so-called 'smarks' away from the product and remind many others of the early days of TNA and will avoid it because they won't want to watch a repeat of that mess with Jarrett and TNA/GFW.

How do you think AEW will even get close to the popularity of the WWE?

As I'm sure it won't be by alienating the fans who currently watch The Elite and went to or watched All In at the expense of a Cody power trip.

If a mix of things is what made All in a success and if that's anything to go by, I am in for that. If you want to start a wrestling company, your base or head quarters should be in a mad wrestling state.

If you want to make wrestling exciting again, dare to be different and do something that people are willing to part their hard earned cash with it.

If you want some pretty good examples.....

WWF/WWE: Based in New York and eventually became national and World Wide. WWE started in New York and had many shows in Madison Square Garden. Bruno Sammartino laid the foundations with his 1st WWE title run lasting 8 years from 1963-1971. He had another world title run lasting 4 years too from 1973-77. Then we had the Hulkamania Era from 1984-1992 where the WWFs Talent Pool was very deep. You had larger than life characters in Hogan, Savage and Ultimate warrior. Just look at Survivor Series 1987 card where there were 10 tag teams in one match.

JCP/NWA/WCW: The Jim rocket Promotions talent pool looked deep in the mid 1980s. Then in 1988, Jim Crockett sold the company to Ted Turner. Again WCWs zenith was from 1996-1998. Like WWE in the 1980s, had a deep talent Pool. But had a variety of wrestlers, that was the main selling point for me. Yes you had the NWO Story line from 1996-8. Yes you had ex WWE guys like Hogan, Savage etc. WCW "grown" blokes in Sting, Lex Luger and Ric Flair and Goldberg and DDP. Good tag teams like Hall and Nash, the Steniers, Harlem Heat etc. Cruiserweights from mexico and Japan such as Rey Mysterio Jr, psychosis and Jushin "Thunder" liger.

ECW: It didn't have a massive roster compared to WCW and WWE. But it stood out. was it the Wrestlers like RVD and Sabu that stood out? To a degree. But it was the Hardcore style that made it stand out. The company started out in Philadephia but expanded to do shows in New York and down in florida.

Another thing I will bring up.....

In the 1990s, Japan was scarily similar to the US wrestling Scene. All Japan and New Japan were the "Big 2" In japan. Frontier Martial Arts wrestling was the Japanese version of ECW.

 

[Colonial]

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