Society/Culture Hypocrisy of The Left - part 3

Jun 6, 2016
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You think they don't fear women and poor people?

Come on...

Cmon Cheif you're using a place of social gathering and entertainment as a similarity to a place of refuge. They are completely different things and you're clutching at straws just to point out how horrible mens clubs are.

Whatever your view of them is irrelevant because even if they could be used as a safe space they were / are certainly not designed that way.

That would be like me saying I'm off to the pub to escape a local I don't get along with but you and I and everyone else knows that pubs weren't designed for that purpose.
 
Cmon Cheif you're using a place of social gathering and entertainment as a similarity to a place of refuge. They are completely different things and you're clutching at straws just to point out how horrible mens clubs are.

Whatever your view of them is irrelevant because even if they could be used as a safe space they were / are certainly not designed that way.

That would be like me saying I'm off to the pub to escape a local I don't get along with but you and I and everyone else knows that pubs weren't designed for that purpose.
It is a place of refuge.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainme...s/news-story/579b6788304325a2cbb1ecb465d4b4d1

“The club is a good refuge for men from the bombardment of daily business life (and to some extent women),” one member, Nick, wrote.

“It is important that is preserved. We need some quiet time to have a bit of lunch, read the papers, gather our thoughts, have a quiet chat with a mate, get a hair cut etc. etc.

“Reports in the press that the Queensland Labor ministers will boycott a male-only club is all the reason needed to keep it that way.”

All well and good but:

a) Why not be honest and accept that it is a safe space?
b) Why not accept that there are many types of people, some of whom do need a temporary bolt-hole for a bit of help and understanding?
 
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No they aren't. Not in this case. College students aren't the vulnerable at all. They are the soon-to-be-elites, and in many cases are attending the elitist colleges based on where these 'movements' are occurring. There's no legitimate comparison.
Sorry but you're wrong. Uni students aren't one collective blob of uber-achievers, all as one destined for the peak of business, political, or cultural success.
 
Aug 12, 2012
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Sorry but you're wrong. Uni students aren't one collective blob of uber-achievers, all as one destined for the peak of business, political, or cultural success.
Sorry, I'm not. If you are attending University you are in the minority of people able to get further education and are far more likely to be senior figures in industries and politics than those who aren't. How exactly are they vulnerable, as you put it?
 
You think someone who identifies as "right" has no benefits allocated that they didn't specifically spend time on?
I'm talking about income tax and wealth redistribution.

I didn't say anything about what conservatives believe other than that their money represents time and work they put in.
 
I'm talking about income tax and wealth redistribution.

I didn't say anything about what conservatives believe other than that their money represents time and work they put in.
Which isn't really true. Per my examples.
 
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It is a place of refuge.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainme...s/news-story/579b6788304325a2cbb1ecb465d4b4d1

“The club is a good refuge for men from the bombardment of daily business life (and to some extent women),” one member, Nick, wrote.

“It is important that is preserved. We need some quiet time to have a bit of lunch, read the papers, gather our thoughts, have a quiet chat with a mate, get a hair cut etc. etc.

“Reports in the press that the Queensland Labor ministers will boycott a male-only club is all the reason needed to keep it that way.”

All well and good but:

a) Why not be honest and accept this?
b) Why not accept that there are many types of people, some of whom do need a temporary bolt-hole for a bit of help and understanding?
By that logic, the granny flat at our home with my music gear and books is a safe space I can flee to from my fear of women and children, since I like to go there occasionally for some peace and quiet too.
 
Sorry, I'm not. If you are attending University you are in the minority of people able to get further education and are far more likely to be senior figures in industries and politics than those who aren't. How exactly are they vulnerable, as you put it?
You are.

Yes, more likely to succeed across the population. This says nothing about the individual. Individuals need various different things to cope and thrive.

A facility to help people cope and take time out, get help, is a boon to those that need it. Why would anyone be against that? It just sounds like the mad ideology of total personal responsibility and unaided self-reliance.
 
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You are.

Yes, more likely to succeed across the population. This says nothing about the individual. Individuals need various different things to cope and thrive.

A facility to help people cope and take time out, get help, is a boon to those that need it. Why would anyone be against that? It just sounds like the mad ideology of total personal responsibility and unaided self-reliance.
Nope, and answer the question please.
 
By that logic, the granny flat at our home with my music gear and books is a safe space I can flee to from my fear of women and children, since I like to go there occasionally for some peace and quiet too.
What happens if you don't get that time and space? You get stressed? You miss deadlines because you can't work? Are those fears for you?

It's a refuge. Of course not everything is about individuals that you fear, but it is about what you fear will happen, or what you will miss out on, without the refuge.
 
Nope, and answer the question please.
I did.

Individuals have different needs - they are vulnerable to different things to different degrees. This isn't controversial.

"They" in your question might include individuals with various issues and stresses that a place they feel more comfortable in, and where they can find support, helps them with issues. Whether or not they have parents who can afford to send them to uni is not really central to it.

And of course different universities have different populations with different economic backgrounds. Uni of Arizona is not Sydney Uni is not SCU is not ACU is not UWA.

You can't say they are all the same and that none of their students need support and refuge at times.
 
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What happens if you don't get that time and space? You get stressed? You miss deadlines because you can't work? Are those fears for you?

It's a refuge. Of course not everything is about individuals that you fear, but it is about what you fear will happen, or what you will miss out on, without the refuge.
You don't seem to understand the concept of safe spaces as it pertains to the university cultures in pockets of the US that I am referencing. These safe spaces aren't refuges for a place to relax or escape from busy life or responsibility (well... the latter is arguable); they are for people who don't want to deal with anything that remotely resembles an alternative viewpoint and is akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "I can't hear you, I can't hear you!" when having an argument. Their purpose is to shield people from unpleasant ideas and to group those who feel the same way together, as if banding a group of fragile eggs in one place makes the carton stronger.
 
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I did.

Individuals have different needs - they are vulnerable to different things to different degrees. This isn't controversial.

"They" in your question might include individuals with various issues and stresses that a place they feel more comfortable in, and where they can find support, helps them with issues. Whether or not they have parents who can afford to send them to uni is not really central to it.

And of course different universities have different populations with different economic backgrounds. Uni of Arizona is not Sydney Uni is not SCU is not ACU is not UWA.

You can't say they are all the same and that none of their students need support and refuge at times.
See my previous post - you are talking about student assistance service, not the safe spaces I am talking about and that the far left are ridiculed for.
 
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So a Uni safe space isn't student assistance?

How so?
Because they don't help. They are fragility enabling. Great if you want to assist someone by coddling them into certain anxiety and helplessness at the first sign of unpleasant views they don't agree with.

I recommend the following article, and will be purchasing the authors' follow-up book on the subject that has just been released too:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/

From the conclusion:
Attempts to shield students from words, ideas, and people that might cause them emotional discomfort are bad for the students. They are bad for the workplace, which will be mired in unending litigation if student expectations of safety are carried forward. And they are bad for American democracy, which is already paralyzed by worsening partisanship. When the ideas, values, and speech of the other side are seen not just as wrong but as willfully aggressive toward innocent victims, it is hard to imagine the kind of mutual respect, negotiation, and compromise that are needed to make politics a positive-sum game.

Rather than trying to protect students from words and ideas that they will inevitably encounter, colleges should do all they can to equip students to thrive in a world full of words and ideas that they cannot control. One of the great truths taught by Buddhism (and Stoicism, Hinduism, and many other traditions) is that you can never achieve happiness by making the world conform to your desires. But you can master your desires and habits of thought.
 
Jun 6, 2016
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It is a place of refuge.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainme...s/news-story/579b6788304325a2cbb1ecb465d4b4d1

“The club is a good refuge for men from the bombardment of daily business life (and to some extent women),” one member, Nick, wrote.

“It is important that is preserved. We need some quiet time to have a bit of lunch, read the papers, gather our thoughts, have a quiet chat with a mate, get a hair cut etc. etc.

“Reports in the press that the Queensland Labor ministers will boycott a male-only club is all the reason needed to keep it that way.”

All well and good but:

a) Why not be honest and accept that it is a safe space?
b) Why not accept that there are many types of people, some of whom do need a temporary bolt-hole for a bit of help and understanding?

C'mon Chief, that is completely different to a "safe space" that an easily offended Gen Z person would go to and you know it. Regardless of the comments made in that article we all know that "safe space" is not an appropriate label for a men's club.

A police station is a "safe space"
A hospital is a "safe space"
A fire station is a "safe space"

They were all designed to be, a mens club is not designed to be - it's designed to be a place of leisure and relaxation, even though a men's club could be used as a safe space does not mean you can justify it as such to suit your argument.
 
Because they don't help. They are fragility enabling. Great if you want to assist someone by coddling them into certain anxiety and helplessness at the first sign of unpleasant views they don't agree with.

I recommend the following article, and will be purchasing the authors' follow-up book on the subject that has just been released too:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/

From the conclusion:
Attempts to shield students from words, ideas, and people that might cause them emotional discomfort are bad for the students. They are bad for the workplace, which will be mired in unending litigation if student expectations of safety are carried forward. And they are bad for American democracy, which is already paralyzed by worsening partisanship. When the ideas, values, and speech of the other side are seen not just as wrong but as willfully aggressive toward innocent victims, it is hard to imagine the kind of mutual respect, negotiation, and compromise that are needed to make politics a positive-sum game.

Rather than trying to protect students from words and ideas that they will inevitably encounter, colleges should do all they can to equip students to thrive in a world full of words and ideas that they cannot control. One of the great truths taught by Buddhism (and Stoicism, Hinduism, and many other traditions) is that you can never achieve happiness by making the world conform to your desires. But you can master your desires and habits of thought.
There is not one "safe space" that has ever helped anyone through a stressful time?

I simply don't believe it - it doesn't pass the sniff test. Nothing I've seen says these are places to run to when someone says something un-PC. This looks overblown to me.

There is definitely a "student as customer" model that is doing damage to free thought and discussion in American unis, if not over here. There's a definite entitlement to good grades in some quarters, and a demand that the syllabus not include any sort of mention of feminism or other isms that conservatives don't like.

Offering a temporary refuge space for someone under stress? There's nothing wrong with it and we all have them.
 
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There is not one "safe space" that has ever helped anyone through a stressful time?

I simply don't believe it - it doesn't pass the sniff test. Nothing I've seen says these are places to run to when someone says something un-PC. This looks overblown to me.

There is definitely a "student as customer" model that is doing damage to free thought and discussion in American unis, if not over here. There's a definite entitlement to good grades in some quarters, and a demand that the syllabus not include any sort of mention of feminism or other isms that conservatives don't like.

Offering a temporary refuge space for someone under stress? There's nothing wrong with it and we all have them.
Gee you read that fast. I thought I was a quick reader.

Safe (space) to say we aren't going to agree here, and it appears we aren't really talking about the same thing either.
 
C'mon Chief, that is completely different to a "safe space" that an easily offended Gen Z person would go to and you know it. Regardless of the comments made in that article we all know that "safe space" is not an appropriate label for a men's club.

A police station is a "safe space"
A hospital is a "safe space"
A fire station is a "safe space"

They were all designed to be, a mens club is not designed to be - it's designed to be a place of leisure and relaxation, even though a men's club could be used as a safe space does not mean you can justify it as such to suit your argument.
So a thing has to be specifically, intentionally, and overtly designed as a refuge for it to be considered a refuge?

Even if you think that, what do you think men's clubs are designed for? Of course they are refuges. They are marketed as such - just without using language that would get an old bloke thinking he has a mental weakness.
 
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