Society/Culture Hypocrisy of The Left - part 3

[its free real estate]

Them's the breaks sometimes. I will say, though, you're reaching a little to avoid coming away from this saying, 'Yes, I am lucky that I was born to wealthy/stable parents!'

If it’s mostly luck, how do you fix the problem? How do you say “oh well you were unlucky to have bad parents” and fix the bad parent problem? It’s not luck, is it?

 

[its free real estate]

The problem with the framing of luck as being mostly responsible for people’s relative advantage and disadvantage, is it makes it impossible to address justice.

Everyone agrees that it is better to be born in Australia than India. But why is Australia better than India? Is it:

- mostly luck; or
- mostly a result of a series of good decisions over centuries about how to create a better society?

If it’s the former, how can making good decisions now truly fix anything? You’re fighting against what you acknowledge is a much stronger influence: that of random chance.

 

[Gethelred]

In purely simple terms, the logic is as follows:

Premise 1: Any event which is considered statistically unlikely is defined as 'lucky'.
Premise 2: Being born to wealthy parents is statistically unlikely, given a) the fact that you need to be born, b) the fact that of all the things that have lived to this point, the variables that could've resulted in other outcomes.

Therefore: being born to wealthy parents is likely.

Is this logic wrong?

 

[Gethelred]

The problem with the framing of luck as being mostly responsible for people’s relative advantage and disadvantage, is it makes it impossible to address justice.

Everyone agrees that it is better to be born in Australia than India. But why is Australia better than India? Is it:

- mostly luck; or
- mostly a result of a series of good decisions over centuries about how to create a better society?

If it’s the former, how can making good decisions now truly fix anything? You’re fighting against what you acknowledge is a much stronger influence: that of random chance.

Oh, we're trying to use this for something? I was too busy trying to win...

 

[Gethelred]

It could be that the implications of the logic are that we need - collectively - to realise how unbelievably lucky we are. It's certainly put things in significantly more perspective for me today; I've had to call off playing cricket to go to work.

How lucky I am indeed, to live in the form I am, in the time that I am alive!

 

[its free real estate]

In purely simple terms, the logic is as follows:

Premise 1: Any event which is considered statistically unlikely is defined as 'lucky'.
Premise 2: Being born to wealthy parents is statistically unlikely, given a) the fact that you need to be born, b) the fact that of all the things that have lived to this point, the variables that could've resulted in other outcomes.

Therefore: being born to wealthy parents is likely.

Is this logic wrong?

Being born human at all is statistically unlikely. It is no more or less likely to be born poor or wealthy. You are either born or not born.

 

[Taylor]

...

Why would anyone - other than the wealthy - agree to that definition?

Some people are better at their jobs but are poor at saying so; some people are ingratiating and terrific at pushing the work at other people. Bureaucracies live off the notion that money is a measure of work over time, directly related to how much your time and expertise are valued, and bureaucracies are the worst thing to happen to your business most of the time. They become self serving and self perpetuating, just good enough at performing - by the standard measures - to keep themselves in place, but not performing at peak levels.

We live in a distributed labour society, very simplistically one person grows the food, one guy sells the food, one guy is the police, one guy teaches the children etc.

The way that society assigns value to those contributions is to reward the work with a shared accepted currency, money. That money is traded for the labour of the others and the value society places on those roles determines how much money each gets.

There is an argument that a person might not perform a task that is valued enough to support themselves, that their human value deserves an allocation and that's reasonable.

The formula for everyone would be $ = contributionValue + intrinsicHumanValue.

But since everyone has that value it's not worth a thing, it has only created a new zero point.

The counter argument is that there are roles that are required in society that aren't rewarded well enough. I can't think of a vital role that isn't rewarded but I can think of many undesirable jobs paid poorly due to their low entrance level.

 

[Gethelred]

Being born human at all is statistically unlikely. It is no more or less likely to be born poor or wealthy. You are either born or not born.

Are you, over the course of the history of life on this planet, statistically unlikely to have been born in the last 100 years (1919-2019)?

Are you more or less likely, on a statistical basis, to be born to parents (regardless of choice) in the top 45 percent of wage earners/wealth indexes?

If the answer is yes, both are unlikely, then both are fortunate outcomes, and yes you are lucky lucky.

 

[Taylor]

It could be that the implications of the logic are that we need - collectively - to realise how unbelievably lucky we are. It's certainly put things in significantly more perspective for me today; I've had to call off playing cricket to go to work.

How lucky I am indeed, to live in the form I am, in the time that I am alive!

It's very subtle but very significant, and not mutually exclusive, that one can look at their circumstance as lucky or they could appreciate what they have as being a result of choices made within a social framework that has facilitated it.

 

[kranky al]

The pendulum swings very gently and very slightly in Australia, so Australians have a desperate need to pretend that light breeze is a gale in order to ensure their views mean something.

It would seem that way to you - if when it swung it either didnt affect you or you benefitted.

Of course if you are a returned soldier with mental issues living on the streets cut off from social security because you didnt apply for 20 jobs one fortnight you would be thinking about jamming that pendulum up some supercilious twats arse.

 

[Carringbush2010]

These are exactly the same motivations for creating these two spaces.

If you want to use the emotive language, mens clubs shield fragile people from the things that scare or stress them.


People upset at other people for doing something everyone does.

In this instance: Create safe spaces for themselves.

Cmon Cheif you're clutching at straws, men's clubs by definition is are men's clubs. It's priority purpose is for the entertainment of men................... comparing that to safe spaces in uni's or colleges is drawing a very very long bow.

It's use as a safe space in the context you put it is very much exception to the rule and comes across as very one dimensional from an argumentative perspective and it seems you're deliberately ignoring the prior purpose of a men's club and defining it as a safe space for use in this discussion.

If you were to ask the person on the street the definition of both, these are likely the majority of answers you'd get.

• Uni safe space = safe space
• Men's club = entertainment venue

We could go round and round in circles debating the main purpose of men's clubs, but it would be futile in the discussion of the thread "hypocrisy of the left" so I'm going to leave the debate on the priority purpose of men's clubs here and won't delve into it any further.

 

[kranky al]

Id be interested in knowing what pc has stopped you from doing.

Absolutely fascinated to know - please?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Whilst I completely agree with what is stated in that video it is not good for argument for common sense for this reason.

• Those who are being identified in that video i:e those who criticize star wars films for not pointing out slavery enough will likely label that video as a profanity laden rant while deliberately ignoring what the video is pointing out.

I get the frustration and the way old mate displays it, couldn't be any clearer than that. But you and I and everyone else knows that people like the ones that withdraw authors names from over 100 years ago from awards because of racial stereotyping will use the profanity as a deflect to attempt to take away any merit in the video content.

 

[Craven Morehead]

Whilst I completely agree with what is stated in that video it is not good for argument for common sense for this reason.

• Those who are being identified in that video i:e those who criticize star wars films for not pointing out slavery enough will likely label that video as a profanity laden rant while deliberately ignoring what the video is pointing out.

I get the frustration and the way old mate displays it, couldn't be any clearer than that. But you and I and everyone else knows that people like the ones that withdraw authors names from over 100 years ago from awards because of racial stereotyping will use the profanity as a deflect to attempt to take away any merit in the video content.

I don't think our 'perpetually outraged' have distanced themselves from using profanity just yet.
From my experience they are quite the masters of using it.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I don't think our 'perpetually outraged' have distanced themselves from using profanity just yet.
From my experience they are quite the masters of using it.

Perpetually outraged. Masters or not is irrelevant as everyone knows the video content is logic pointing out the ridiculous. The point is the viewpoint that video targets will deflect the logic with " just some whitey righty being outraged using profanity" argument in an attempt to justify such things as criticising star wars films for their lack of identifying slavery.

 

[Proud SJW]

It would seem that way to you - if when it swung it either didnt affect you or you benefitted.

Of course if you are a returned soldier with mental issues living on the streets cut off from social security because you didnt apply for 20 jobs one fortnight you would be thinking about jamming that pendulum up some supercilious twats arse.

What the * are you jabbering on about? What does a returned soldier have to do with the political spectrum in Australia?

 

[kranky al]

What the **** are you jabbering on about? What does a returned soldier have to do with the political spectrum in Australia?

I would have thought it was obvious - the pendulum has swung to the right - the requirements to collect social security become more onerous - people - esp people with mental problems like returned soldiers slip through the cracks and end up on the streets.

I really didnt think there was any need to join the dots but hey i guess ivory towers really do have that insulating effect

 

[Snake_Baker]

 

[Proud SJW]

I would have thought it was obvious - the pendulum has swung to the right - the requirements to collect social security become more onerous - people - esp people with mental problems like returned soldiers slip through the cracks and end up on the streets.

I really didnt think there was any need to join the dots but hey i guess ivory towers really do have that insulating effect

Uh huh.
Go away.

 

[kranky al]

Uh huh.
Go away.

Scintillating rebuttal.

I like how you cleverly wove facts and figures into an.... actually no you didnt - because the facts and figures are against you.

The numbers of homeless people under the liberal government have risen by 14%.

So getting back to your “im alright jack so everyone else must be just dandy” bullshit trite pendulum analogy. It really is a case of where you sit as i said. If the pendulum swinging doesnt affect you, or you get a net benefit from it you can make pithy shallow observations like you did, pat yourself on the back and feel like you have contributed to the forum. Reality is that the pendulum swing seems negligible to someone sitting at the top and world ending to those on the bottom.

 

[Mike Smyth]

There's countless examples of leftists being slaughtered in shithole countries because they think all cultures are equal. It's not their fault that they're brainwashed to believe this, though.

I traveled through the middle east in the mid 90's. Young women, who traveled without a care through Europe the previous summer, soon learned that they were in a different part of the world. Places like Egypt could be extremely dangerous for them if they didn't take proper care. I hate to think what happened to those that didn't. Much to the lefts utter disbelieve the world isn't full of rainbows and unicorns.

 

[Chief]

Yes, that is the only luck. To exist or not. Not to be born poor or rich.

Did your parents always make the correct choices at the correct time?

Did none of their choices affect you in any way?

 

[quotemokc]

Defend this, I dare someone.

 

[Taylor]

Lactatia's mum looks exactly how you would expect.



Not bitchy. She is twice the woman I am, at least.

 

[Benny78]

How long has Australia Day been controversial for? 2 years?