Discussion Pierce "Vs" Longer

Pierce or Longer

  • Pierce

    Votes: 12 27.9%

  • Longer

    Votes: 15 34.9%

  • Marshall

    Votes: 16 37.2%
  • Total voters
    43

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ScrappyDo

ScrappyDo

Norm Smith Medallist
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With the new season rapidly approaching, and the players now back from their Christmas break, it's time to tackle the BIG issue for 2019.

Who is our least worst dedicated ruckman, and why?

Without a strong liking for either, I'm going with Lewie to start round 1, and be the "most likely" to get a contract extension beyond this year. Whilst Lewie doesn't have the runs on the board at AFL level he did show significant improvement last year, winning the Dolphins B&F, and having a couple of handy games in the seniors late in the season. Lewie has been able to fill in a KP roll at various times both in forward and defense, takes some good grabs, follows up well, wins his share of hitouts and effects plenty of contests around the ground with his superior tank and ground coverage. In short, Lewie shows more ability as a footballer and athlete, has greater flexibility and potential for growth.

Billy on the other hand, is a one trick pony that's shown next to nothing outside of winning hit-outs. He's the archetypal outdated lumbering ruckman.
Billy is also recovering from foot surgery, setting him back in a preseason where Lewie is burning up the track. Billy will be lucky to get a game this year IMO, and is top of the list to be out of the AFL at seasons end.
 
Last edited:

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Lewis sure has more chance to make it than Billy IMO , as you said he can get around the ground a lot better and is a good mark , i think him getting a chance late in the season will be the boost he needed to start the year off strong , also his pre season reports have been good , Go my boy
 
We undoubtedly enter 2019 with the worst ruck division in the AFL.

Pierce played one good game last season and was comprehensively destroyed in the next two. He has decent skills and overhead marking but athletically he looks a long way off the good ruckmen of the AFL. He was also monstered for strength but perhaps his taste of senior footy has motivated him to really put in this pre season and improve his tank and strength.

Longer at his best is a strong tap ruckman who offers nothing around the ground. At his worst he is an unfit, immobile liability who struggles to break even in the ruck. I was hoping that he would have a good pre season and get his fitness to the required level but a hampered pre season suggests to me that Longer is not going to be at his best.

If Marshall can work on his ruck game to the point where he isn't completely dominated in the hitouts then I'd like to see him get a decent crack in the middle. He is the most mobile and skillful of the three, and he has shown strong competitive instincts. He has improved at quite a rapid rate over the last few years and if he keeps improving will be a very handy AFL player. I do think that he's more suited to being a 2nd/3rd forward who provides a strong chop out in the ruck rather than being a number one ruckman though.

I hope we have a shortlist of ruckmen we are going to target at the end of the season.
 
borderbarry said:
As ruckmen go I feel both Longer and Pierce are well in front of Marshall. I am more concerned with the big bloke, Alabacus. I hope he comes on and leaves the others behind.
Click to expand...
he certainly is big enough ... and from reports athletic enough but the test will be to see if he can learn the "craft" behind the role to do it with us having Lade in the team certainly helps
 

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I can see an upside to Longer but I don't think he is AFL standard, I think Pierce will struggle. I think Marshall might end up being our best ruckman unless Alabakis shows a rapid rise in the VFL
 
After 6 years in the system 23 YO Pierce amazed us all with his 27 hitouts and 18 disposals in a single game. 5 Marks was good.
After 2 years in the system 22 YO Marshall didn't do better than 23 and 16, but took 8 marks and kicked 2 goals in the same game.
At the Age of 22 , Longer had a game where he had had 23 hitouts and 18 disposals and took 8 marks.
At the age of 23 Longer averaged 29 hitouts. ( top of 51 ).
Longer has been in the system a year more than Pierce, so i think for us to be all hailing Pierce as the next big thing , is like thinking that Tommy Walsh would be a great replacement for Nick Riewoldt.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
After 6 years in the system 23 YO Pierce amazed us all with his 27 hitouts and 18 disposals in a single game. 5 Marks was good.
After 2 years in the system 22 YO Marshall didn't do better than 23 and 16, but took 8 marks and kicked 2 goals in the same game.
At the Age of 22 , Longer had a game where he had had 23 hitouts and 18 disposals and took 8 marks.
At the age of 23 Longer averaged 29 hitouts. ( top of 51 ).
Longer has been in the system a year more than Pierce, so i think for us to be all hailing Pierce as the next big thing , is like thinking that Tommy Walsh would be a great replacement for Nick Riewoldt.
Click to expand...

Settle petal , non of us are saying Lewis is the next big thing , TBO i dont think either are ever going to be the answer but the question was Lewis or Longer ,
 
CaptainRisky said:
Settle petal , non of us are saying Lewis is the next big thing , TBO i dont think either are ever going to be the answer but the question was Lewis or Longer ,
Click to expand...

I'd still go with Longer, though...what was wrong with him last season?
When he did play he only averaged 25 Hitouts.
The previous season he averaged a pretty respectable 38.5.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
After 6 years in the system 23 YO Pierce amazed us all with his 27 hitouts and 18 disposals in a single game. 5 Marks was good.
After 2 years in the system 22 YO Marshall didn't do better than 23 and 16, but took 8 marks and kicked 2 goals in the same game.
At the Age of 22 , Longer had a game where he had had 23 hitouts and 18 disposals and took 8 marks.
At the age of 23 Longer averaged 29 hitouts. ( top of 51 ).
Longer has been in the system a year more than Pierce, so i think for us to be all hailing Pierce as the next big thing , is like thinking that Tommy Walsh would be a great replacement for Nick Riewoldt.
Click to expand...
Longer has had only a half dozen decent games in his career tally of 64. Thats 1 every 10, or 2 per year on average, and has plateaued below AFL standard.

Lewie has played 4 games.
In his debut game he was used up forward and was quiet but managed a goal and showed a bit.
Last year in his 3 outings he had the one good game, one break even(ish), and one poor game, getting monstered by Goldstein. Not too bad for 4 games.
Not to mention we ballsed up his progress with adding J. Holmes to needlessly gum up the works.
Lewie remains an open question whilst Billy is a proven liability. So where should we prioritize 22 games this year?
If anyone thinks they should go to Billy, a good friend of mine is looking for investors in a Nigerian Ostrich farm start-up. I'd be happy to pass your details on, for a small fee..
 
ScrappyDo said:
Longer has had only a half dozen decent games in his career tally of 64. Thats 1 every 10, or 2 per year on average, and has plateaued below AFL standard.

Lewie has played 4 games.
In his debut game he was used up forward and was quiet but managed a goal and showed a bit.
Last year in his 3 outings he had the one good game, one break even(ish), and one poor game, getting monstered by Goldstein. Not too bad for 4 games.
Not to mention we ballsed up his progress with adding J. Holmes to needlessly gum up the works.
Lewie remains an open question whilst Billy is a proven liability. So where should we prioritize 22 games this year?
If anyone thinks they should go to Billy, a good friend of mine is looking for investors in a Nigerian Ostrich farm start-up. I'd be happy to pass your details on, for a small fee..
Click to expand...

Ok , so a player who can't get a game for 4 years , then plays a handful ,perhaps half of which he has any impact, has clearly more potential.
Take your pick...Desiree or Pontiac.

Apart from Pierce's one good game , he's been no better around the ground than Longer.
Longer also has some good ones, typically around 4 a year, is there potential for him to do it more often?

6 years in, Max Gawn was only just adequate ( no i don't think Longer will be the next Gawn ) as a ruck and round the ground, but had the ability to clunk a mark and goal. I can still see Longer at the age he's at , putting in more consistent good performances.
But if what we've been seeing is Longer playing through an injury ( Groin? Ankle ? ) then i don't want to see him playing through injury. He strikes me as a type were everything needs to be just right physically.
 
Selecting the ruckman for the St Kilda Football Club in 2019 is going to be like a game of pin the tail on a turd. You don't need a blindfold, because you don't want to look as you do it anyway.
 
Jade Buddha said:
How many years has Longer been on the list?
Pretty sure he’s never had a year without injury so for mine he’s a couldabeen champion.
Think I’ve only once seen a game where he impressed
Click to expand...

He's been on our list four years. ( Pierce 5 years ).
He's never managed to play more than 18 games in a season.
In 2017 he averaged the third most hit outs per game in the AFL over 17 games ( behind Sandilands and Jacobs ).
Of the players who averaged high hitouts, he took less marks per game than all but Mumford, Sean Darcy, and Zac Smith.
Only Tom Campbell and Dawson Simpson got less disposals per game.
He did ok with tackles 4 per game.
Jacobs , Kreuzer, McEvoy , Ryder and Goldstein were about the only rucks who kicked many goals.
 
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