Socceroos (Graham Arnold and) The Socceroos Thread

[hey shorty]

Because our national team is the worst it's been in 30 years, we can't afford our starting CB to chase cash at 24

Someone always steps up, I mean as good as Degenek has been lately he wouldnt be in the first half dozen picked.

He will likely be back in Europe in a years time, 2 max I'd say.

 

[Topkent]

Someone always steps up, I mean as good as Degenek has been lately he wouldnt be in the first half dozen picked.

He will likely be back in Europe in a years time, 2 max I'd say.

We don't have anyone to step up. We have lower league English players and A League players who in your opinion are worse than the saudi counterparts

 

[hey shorty]

We don't have anyone to step up. We have lower league English players and A League players who in your opinion are worse than the saudi counterparts

Well that last bit is true

 

[Topkent]

Well that last bit is true

So if Daniel Arzani left city and went to Saudi you would be ok with that?

 

[hey shorty]

So if Daniel Arzani left city and went to Saudi you would be ok with that?

Melbourne City ?? Sure why not, one soulless entity for another.

Look at these Middle Eastern players, they are faaaaaar better technically than A League players. The club Degenek has signed for plays in the ACL every year and has made 7 finals..... that's a lot better than A League.

 

[Topkent]

Melbourne City ?? Sure why not, one soulless entity for another.

Look at these Middle Eastern players, they are faaaaaar better technically than A League players. The club Degenek has signed for plays in the ACL every year and has made 7 finals..... that's a lot better than A League.

Daniel Arzani contracted to Manchester City on loan at Celtic. I guess you don't really know what you are talking about?

 

[hey shorty]

Daniel Arzani contracted to Manchester City on loan at Celtic. I guess you don't really know what you are talking about?

Pot, meet kettle.

This has never been about where I'd prefer Degenek to play. Of course I'd rather he play in Europe still, but if someone offers you an enormous pay increase to do the same job you and I both know you'd take it.

I mean unless you don't wanna look after your family and friends.

 

[Zidane98]

Pot, meet kettle.

This has never been about where I'd prefer Degenek to play. Of course I'd rather he play in Europe still, but if someone offers you an enormous pay increase to do the same job you and I both know you'd take it.

I mean unless you don't wanna look after your family and friends.

I would not accept double my pay packed to uproot my family and move to Saudi Arabia.


Degenek can earn the big bucks at the end of the career - they will always be there. Right now at age 24 career progression is the number one priority. And another season like the one he is having at Red Star would probably see him on the radar of Dutch / English Championship and possibly even lower level teams where he would be earning a wage that will cover himself and his entire family easily.


Moving to Saudi kills that career progression, there's no two ways about it, it is a terrible decision for a 24 year old Aussie established playing regular football at a European team.

 

[Zidane98]

As for middle eastern players I don't rate them that highly. There's a reason why ME clubs continually pursue Australian players - they are better than the locals.

 

[hey shorty]

I would not accept double my pay packed to uproot my family and move to Saudi Arabia.


Degenek can earn the big bucks at the end of the career - they will always be there. Right now at age 24 career progression is the number one priority. And another season like the one he is having at Red Star would probably see him on the radar of Dutch / English Championship and possibly even lower level teams where he would be earning a wage that will cover himself and his entire family easily.


Moving to Saudi kills that career progression, there's no two ways about it, it is a terrible decision for a 24 year old Aussie established playing regular football at a European team.

I reckon itll be a fair bit more than double actually, otherwise you wouldnt do it.

Again, this has never been able where he SHOULD be playing, its about understanding why he's done what he's done.

 

[hey shorty]

As for middle eastern players I don't rate them that highly. There's a reason why ME clubs continually pursue Australian players - they are better than the locals.

They're technically far better than us, particularly the current Socceroo era. The Saudis qualified in front of us for Russia, and did so easy enough.

They're horrible outside their own country internationally though, that's very true.

 

[Topkent]

Pot, meet kettle.

This has never been about where I'd prefer Degenek to play. Of course I'd rather he play in Europe still, but if someone offers you an enormous pay increase to do the same job you and I both know you'd take it.

I mean unless you don't wanna look after your family and friends.

Rubbish, some people wanna succeed and have great careers in important competitions not just a nice bank balance when they are done

He will never know how good of a player he could become and instead now may even have peaked

 

[hey shorty]

Rubbish, some people wanna succeed and have great careers in important competitions not just a nice bank balance when they are done

He will never know how good of a player he could become and instead now may even have peaked

I'll wager that he will.

Again, this will be a 2-3 year thing and he will be 26-27 when he leaves. As a CB that's well within the peak of your career. Al-Hilal are a HUGE club, if you're going to go to the ME that's the place to go to, theres a number of international players there.

Sainsbury is actually a good case study, is he the player he could be after his move to China ?? I'd say probably yes, but its definitely arguable.

 

[Topkent]

I'll wager that he will.

Again, this will be a 2-3 year thing and he will be 26-27 when he leaves. As a CB that's well within the peak of your career. Al-Hilal are a HUGE club, if you're going to go to the ME that's the place to go to, theres a number of international players there.

Sainsbury is actually a good case study, is he the player he could be after his move to China ?? I'd say probably yes, but its definitely arguable.

Sainsburys career has come to a screaming halt since he moved to China in nearly 3 full seasons he has played 47 games and 3 for PSV. His career went down the toilet moving in his prime for cash.

 

[hey shorty]

Sainsburys career has come to a screaming halt since he moved to China in nearly 3 full seasons he has played 47 games and 3 for PSV. His career went down the toilet moving in his prime for cash.

And yet hes still our best defender.

 

[Topkent]

And yet hes still our best defender.

That's a sad sad indictment on the state of our team. Sainsbury wouldn't have been good enough to make our 06 WC squad.

 

[hey shorty]

That's a sad sad indictment on the state of our team. Sainsbury wouldn't have been good enough to make our 06 WC squad.

He would have made it in front of Beauchamp, but thats about it.

But that 06 squad was something special

 

[Topkent]

He would have made it in front of Beauchamp, but thats about it.

But that 06 squad was something special

As a ball playing defender yeah maybe. But again that's not saying much

 

[Pykie]

He would have made it in front of Beauchamp, but thats about it.

But that 06 squad was something special

No.

Beauchamp was playing for Nuremburg in 2006, he played 35 times for them in 2 seasons (a hell of a lot more than Sainsbury has for Inter or PSV) they finished 6th and 8th in the Bundesliga in his time there.

Beauchamp of 2006 would be our #1 defender at the moment.

Remembering in 2007, Nurenburg had a top 10 finish with an all Aussie CB pairing.

Beauchmp paired with a 19 year old Matt Spiranovic.

I like Sainsbury, he really could of ended up at a top club had he chosen his next clubs more wisely, he was one of the better center halves in Holland at Zwolle, but he’s turned to s**t the last 2 seasons and it’s shown with his performances with the Aussies. He’s a shadow of the player he was 3-4 years ago.

He moved for cash at completely the wrong time.

 

[Pykie]

Love to discover promising young prospects like Milligan and Kruse

I think most comments in this thread are way too melodramatic.


Borello is as good a prospect as both of them at the same age.

Leckie got a few games at Gladbach early, however he then went on to graft in the 2.Bundi for nearly 4 years before getting back with Ingolstadt and then his move to a solid enough club in Hertha.

Kruse was still in the A-League at Borello’s age, who also went to 2.Bundeliga, got promoted with Fortuna, battled relegation in his first year in the Bundesliga then got picked up by Leverkusen. He played 20 games in 4 years (injuries didn’t help) and he was essentially back in 2.Bundesliga.

Borello played half a season in 2.Bundesliga then a top club for developing young players in Freiburg picked him up, with everything coming out of the club indicating he was very much in first team plans before his knee injury. He’s just turned fully fit and is already being mooted as coming straight onto the bench in the next week or so.

My point being, everyone is doom and gloom at the moment. I actually think we’ve well and truly passed the hump of this lull in talent. Arzani, Mabil, Ikonomidis and Borello is as good a group of young wingers as we’ve had in 2 decades.

 

[Topkent]

I think most comments in this thread are way too melodramatic.


Borello is as good a prospect as both of them at the same age.

Leckie got a few games at Gladbach early, however he then went on to graft in the 2.Bundi for nearly 4 years before getting back with Ingolstadt and then his move to a solid enough club in Hertha.

Kruse was still in the A-League at Borello’s age, who also went to 2.Bundeliga, got promoted with Fortuna, battled relegation in his first year in the Bundesliga then got picked up by Leverkusen. He played 20 games in 4 years (injuries didn’t help) and he was essentially back in 2.Bundesliga.

Borello played half a season in 2.Bundesliga then a top club for developing young players in Freiburg picked him up, with everything coming out of the club indicating he was very much in first team plans before his knee injury. He’s just turned fully fit and is already being mooted as coming straight onto the bench in the next week or so.

My point being, everyone is doom and gloom at the moment. I actually think we’ve well and truly passed the hump of this lull in talent. Arzani, Mabil, Ikonomidis and Borello is as good a group of young wingers as we’ve had in 2 decades.

That group sounds sexy because it's young but it's no more developed than Rukavytsya Kruse Leckie Oar Burns etc.
That group you named still puts us outside the top 50 in world football. I wouldn't be that enthused by that at all. Plus 2 of them have had serious knee injuries already which potentially could finish them before they've started

 

[Pykie]

That group sounds sexy because it's young but it's no more developed than Rukavytsya Kruse Leckie Oar Burns etc.
That group you named still puts us outside the top 50 in world football. I wouldn't be that enthused by that at all. Plus 2 of them have had serious knee injuries already which potentially could finish them before they've started

No, it's a good group because they have all performed well for Australia at this age already, they look a class above their opponents each time they step on the pitch. The same cant be said for the other group, even against Asian opposition.

Ruka was only ever a 2.Bundeliga player, even when he was at Hertha, they were 2nd division.

Oar & Burns had flashes for both club and country, but ultimately never did anything more than an odd good game. They were never nailed down starters at any point in their Socceroo careers.

As for Leckie and Kruse, I explained it in the previous post, but Mabil has scored or assisted in more goals in the last few months than the other two have in the previous couple of years.


Leckie's 2014 world cup is the only thing comparable to how Mabil and Ikonomidis are carrying the side at a major tournament at the moment.

 

[Topkent]

No, it's a good group because they have all performed well for Australia at this age already, they look a class above their opponents each time they step on the pitch. The same cant be said for the other group, even against Asian opposition.

Ruka was only ever a 2.Bundeliga player, even when he was at Hertha, they were 2nd division.

Oar & Burns had flashes for both club and country, but ultimately never did anything more than an odd good game. They were never nailed down starters at any point in their Socceroo careers.

As for Leckie and Kruse, I explained it in the previous post, but Mabil has scored or assisted in more goals in the last few months than the other two have in the previous couple of years.


Leckie's 2014 world cup is the only thing comparable to how Mabil and Ikonomidis are carrying the side at a major tournament at the moment.

Again finished careers vs fresh beginning ones. There was a dickload of hype around those kids when they first started out as well and they were gonna be the next stars of Australia.

Scoring against Palestine and Syria doesn't prove a pinch of s**t. Those countries would get relegated out of the championship of England.

Wait till Mabil and ikonomidis actually have to play in a game with defenders.

'Leckie has never done it... except for that one time he did it at the most important tournament on earth'

Mmmk

 

[hey shorty]

Those 2 are in the infancy of their careers and they look very good.

 

[tryitout]

No one would have thought Aaron Mooy would be where he is now a few years ago. If players like Rogic, Arzani, Ikonomidis, Mabil etc etc can find the right fit for a club the progress they make as players can be huge.