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Those two trades are completely different and you won't know at the end of the season.
the kelly melbourne trade is almost identical and a very good comparison
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Those two trades are completely different and you won't know at the end of the season.
You see this is where bias comes into it and it effects the way you thinkOh dear...this thread is laughable.
You see this is where bias comes into it and it effects the way you think
If i was to tell you to compare Judd to Martin in your mind you will say Judd , But end of their career's Martin will be known as a better player
LOL if you truly believe that then you sir are the person with Bias , Martin has dominated since being recruitedYou are correct with one thing..and one thing only. Your bias has well and truly effected the way you think.
Martin is a very good player who has had ONE exceptional year. Judd is a legend of the game.
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I think the simple solution here is to agree both are phenominally good players and both will be remembered as greats of their timeLOL if you truly believe that then you sir are the person with Bias , Martin has dominated since being recruited
He was averaging more than 20 touches and
1st year - statts
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...&pid2=109&fid1=P&fopt1=2010&fid2=P&fopt2=2002
2nd year
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...&pid2=109&fid1=P&fopt1=2011&fid2=P&fopt2=2003
Career
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...erStatus2=I&tid2=4&type=A&pid1=3316&pid2=109&
Their best years both won brownlows
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...&pid2=109&fid1=P&fopt1=2017&fid2=P&fopt2=2004
Dustin Martin is still in his prime and has another 5-7 years to play and will easily pass Judds games played
sometimes you need to look past your Bias Dusty along with Judd will become Legends of the game
Thats exactly correct and the point i was trying to make initially was that it depended on your bias as to which you believe is better until Drake mentioned that Dusty only had 1 good year which is false Dusty has been an amazing player since he was recruited and every year he has had has been at a extremely high level not just 1 year.I think the simple solution here is to agree both are phenominally good players and both will be remembered as greats of their time
On your first point whilst you are correct and there are hundreds that know their stuff and are good we dont have many on here and thats what i meant
We should not be bagging people like KM or Bishop for putting in the work to get us the info we generally wouldnt have or seek without their imput.
Regarding your point about Hughes & Sos
I dot think i need to clarify about hughes his record speaks for itself and im sure most carlton supporters would not have him back so i feel vindicated that he was a failure
SOS is currently Carltons love child and can do no wrong as was the case with others in the past but his record so far over the last 10 years is really not that great and looking at his time at the GWS with what he had he could have done alot more and had some major misses. If the GWS dont win a flag in the next 3-5 years he deserves to wear some of that.
His time at Carlton is yet to be a success and will be judged accordingly in 5 years time and will depend on if Carlton's current list rebuild is actually a build that achieves success or another false dawn.
Currently its too early due to the way he has gone about the rebuild by totally gutting the list and starting afresh unlike other teams like Bulldogs,Tigers who have done it differently. Melbourne also gutted their list many years ago and had as many top draft picks and looked like they were going to go on with it but the young talent didnt translate to success just as yet with alot of kids falling by the wayside.
This is the Liam Stocker thread. Why have you made it the Judd v Martin thread. I have my views which are different to yours but I'm not going to get involved in a BS tit-for-tat when we are here to talk about Liam.LOL if you truly believe that then you sir are the person with Bias , Martin has dominated since being recruited
He was averaging more than 20 touches and
1st year - statts
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...&pid2=109&fid1=P&fopt1=2010&fid2=P&fopt2=2002
2nd year
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...&pid2=109&fid1=P&fopt1=2011&fid2=P&fopt2=2003
Career
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...erStatus2=I&tid2=4&type=A&pid1=3316&pid2=109&
Their best years both won brownlows
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...&pid2=109&fid1=P&fopt1=2017&fid2=P&fopt2=2004
Dustin Martin is still in his prime and has another 5-7 years to play and will easily pass Judds games played
sometimes you need to look past your Bias Dusty along with Judd will become Legends of the game
Sounds like you got offended, you did bring it up.I wouldn't even enter into that dumb discussion.Thats exactly correct and the point i was trying to make initially was that it depended on your bias as to which you believe is better until Drake mentioned that Dusty only had 1 good year which is false Dusty has been an amazing player since he was recruited and every year he has had has been at a extremely high level not just 1 year.
Judd was a champion and one of the best as is Dusty
may i ask you to elaborate on that point?
Hopefully you spelling it out to him (which has been done ad nauseam previously) will finally see him see things for what they truly are....rather than this anti-Carlton bias. Fingers crossed.Sure, but if you take a step back and have a look at things objectively I reckon it's pretty obvious.
The club outlined a plan at the start of the Bolton/Silvagni era and to their credit have not deviated from it despite external pressure to do so. This is why despite the poor ladder positions in 2016, 2017 and 2018 you will find most Carlton fans are satisfied and 100% behind what the club is doing.
During each year of the current rebuild (except for the period most recently passed) we have made list management decisions which we acknowledge will make us weaker in the short term.
2015 we lost a significant amount of experience and loaded up mainly on early draft picks with a few fringe role players.
2016 we lost more experience and brought in a raft of young talent both from other clubs and via the draft.
2017 we lost one of our better players and offset that loss by mainly bringing in a heap of young kids.
2018 was the first year we haven't jettisoned experienced best 22 talent for draft assets, and whilst we did lose one experienced best 22 player, we again brought in a heap of kids - and via live trading more than we had initially anticipated.
How exactly is this not being patient? There have been no messiahs like there have been so many times before. We're committed to the plan and playing the long game. We've been very patient.
And please don't bring up the Stocker trade in an attempt to try use it as some sort of proof that we're being impatient, because that's not what it demonstrates at all.
We saw an opportunity to bring another highly rated kid into the club a year early and we jumped at that opportunity. Risky? Sure. Impatient? Absolutely not.
Carltons tanking for the 2020 draftAnother side benefit of this trade is we can absolutely not be accused of tanking.
Carltons tanking for the 2020 draft
No not offended and nor should i be as its just opinion's and thats exactly what i meant when i put up the Dusty v Judd questionSounds like you got offended, you did bring it up.I wouldn't even enter into that dumb discussion.
You are correct with one thing..and one thing only. Your bias has well and truly effected the way you think.
Martin is a very good player who has had ONE exceptional year. Judd is a legend of the game.
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This is the Liam Stocker thread. Why have you made it the Judd v Martin thread. I have my views which are different to yours but I'm not going to get involved in a BS tit-for-tat when we are here to talk about Liam.
Stay on topic because this is boring.
Not to mention the fact that he answers everyones questions they put to him on the forum. The guy is a champ, and there are plenty of recuiters who mess up their draft selections, and they have access to footage of every game the kids play, and interviews with their coaches and family, as well as GPS numbers etc.Thank you for summarising my point fat better than I could. It's easy for some of these trolls to throw barbs from the cheap seats without actually contributing anything themselves, but it's just sad to see a guy who puts so much effort into something getting potted by a couple of clowns who have contributed absolutely nothing themselves.
I agree, yet have been roundly lambasted for it. I've always said that I admire the trade and think it was a good move, however I think Silvagni has probably overestimated his list (and coach) as I still see Carlton finishing bottom two and handing over pick #1 or #2 which is probably overpaying. In principle, it's a good deal for the Blues but it will require Carlton's youth to show a lot more than they have until now to pay off.I really dont get the hate for what Carlton did, and I have had my fair share of Carlton run ins on here.
Stocker came on this year after his injury with a bang. Beat out Smith and Walsh for the best TAC kid to boot.
He is a good talent for sure. They bring in two of the best TAC cup mids in 2018, and then still have a first rounder next year from the Crows.
I have Carlton with six wins next year, finishing from 14th to 16th and the Crows coming around 5th. I have their first dropping back from around pick 3 to pick 14. In Carltons mind, Stocker was worth pick 6. So pick 6 and 14 for pick 3 isnt a bad deal. I dont see next years draft as good as last years, so thats another positive for SOS.
Why this deserves condemnation I dont know.
For me Carlton have enough talent to move up the ladder this year, but I dont know if Bolton is the man for the job.
I really dont get the hate for what Carlton did, and I have had my fair share of Carlton run ins on here.
Stocker came on this year after his injury with a bang. Beat out Smith and Walsh for the best TAC kid to boot.
He is a good talent for sure. They bring in two of the best TAC cup mids in 2018, and then still have a first rounder next year from the Crows.
I have Carlton with six wins next year, finishing from 14th to 16th and the Crows coming around 5th. I have their first dropping back from around pick 3 to pick 14. In Carltons mind, Stocker was worth pick 6. So pick 6 and 14 for pick 3 isnt a bad deal. I dont see next years draft as good as last years, so thats another positive for SOS.
Why this deserves condemnation I dont know.
For me Carlton have enough talent to move up the ladder this year, but I dont know if Bolton is the man for the job.
I really dont get the hate for what Carlton did, and I have had my fair share of Carlton run ins on here.
Stocker came on this year after his injury with a bang. Beat out Smith and Walsh for the best TAC kid to boot.
He is a good talent for sure. They bring in two of the best TAC cup mids in 2018, and then still have a first rounder next year from the Crows.
I have Carlton with six wins next year, finishing from 14th to 16th and the Crows coming around 5th. I have their first dropping back from around pick 3 to pick 14. In Carltons mind, Stocker was worth pick 6. So pick 6 and 14 for pick 3 isnt a bad deal. I dont see next years draft as good as last years, so thats another positive for SOS.
Why this deserves condemnation I dont know.
For me Carlton have enough talent to move up the ladder this year, but I dont know if Bolton is the man for the job.
I dont see next years draft as good as last years, so thats another positive for SOS.
I don’t think so. Carlton’s future first is the Crows’ now. It’s done. The most positive outcome for Carlton from here would be a strong draft that maximises the currency of whatever picks they end up with.
I agree in terms of raw strategy, it’s hard to understand the condemnation. If Carlton see themselves with say pick 4-6 in a weaker draft next year, and the chance to swap it for a top 6 player from a stronger draft here and now, it’s a total no-brainer to make this deal.
The only issue is whether or not Carlton read the situation accurately, which can’t as yet be ascertained.
You dont cough up a 1st rounder for a project player so cant see how you can say that, Sos rated him #6 hardly project typeLet’s get this back on track. Really don’t give a stuff about Richmond players whilst in the Liam Stocker thread.
Track watchers saying his foot skills are of a very high standard. Is putting the extra yards in to build up his endurance; which is seen as a weakness.
I see him as a project player who will work hard, develop in the VFL and force his way in to the AFL.
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