List Mgmt. 2019 List Management: Contracts, Trading, Drafting, Academy

[Giant Pete]

It's entirely possible the offer was made.

Josh is years from FA though, and Dave Mattews rejected out out of hand Any notion of us trading him this year.

We've shown we'll fight for him already, and I'm not sure what it means. It's a very good offer, although I'm not as confident your 2019 1st will be in the top 3 as some. I'm sure we're working or have worked on a good offer, but his value will probably be as high or possibly higher next year.

Bottom line is whatever happens Kelly wont be cheap.

We can’t overpay for anyone.

 

[Colonial]

Too quiet in finals.

He isnt terrible but with his output during the regular season would think it would be much better.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

We can’t overpay for anyone.

I'm not sure what that actually means.

 

[fridgeman]

I don't think Cameron has under performed it is more that for the team to be more successful he needs to take his game to another level and it is relevant to several players. If you see what Coniglio and Whitfield did this season, Kelly last and Greene the 2 before if the team has 4 players reaching AA team levels it will be a near certainty for top 4 and it is that the core of that is there it is keeping the players on the park and also the stars of the team reaching those levels

 

[Orange Agent]

Someone on our rumour board made the comment that SOS offered pick 1 (2018) + 2019 1st round selection for Josh Kelly during the trade period.

If GWS knocked that offer back, they must be extremely confident on retaining Kelly.

Players have to agree to a trade. I reckon SOS makes a lot of offers, and gets knocked back 95% of the time.

 

[Giant Pete]

I'm not sure what that actually means.

It’s not rocket science

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

It’s not rocket science

I do actually understand that building rockets is fundamentally different to managing an AFL list.

What in your view would overpayment be?

 

[Eiffel 65]

Players have to agree to a trade. I reckon SOS makes a lot of offers, and gets knocked back 95% of the time.

Is probably an accurate statement for the vast majority of list managers.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Is probably an accurate statement for the vast majority of list managers.

I suspect you're right. Generally the initial contact is more often with the players manager I suspect. It may well never reach the light if day if there's no interest.

Kelly was contracted though so it may be different.

With OOC players and FA it often seems to be the medical and visit to a club that gets the press clued in.

 

[kulak]

I don't think Cameron has under performed it is more that for the team to be more successful he needs to take his game to another level and it is relevant to several players. If you see what Coniglio and Whitfield did this season, Kelly last and Greene the 2 before if the team has 4 players reaching AA team levels it will be a near certainty for top 4 and it is that the core of that is there it is keeping the players on the park and also the stars of the team reaching those levels

Jeremy Cameron was All Australian in season two, as a 19 year old.

He is a very good player - but as an 19 year old he looked like he would be in the top couple of forwards in the comp.

Can it be considered underachieving when the early expectations were for superstar - and the reality has been very good?

 

[Determinant]

Jeremy Cameron was All Australian in season two, as a 19 year old.

He is a very good player - but as an 19 year old he looked like he would be in the top couple of forwards in the comp.

Can it be considered underachieving when the early expectations were for superstar - and the reality has been very good?

He is only now hitting the age where big guys typically shine, his last couple of seasons have been underwhelming by comparison to expectations but no reason he can't reach the expected heights for mine

 

[kulak]

He is only now hitting the age where big guys typically shine, his last couple of seasons have been underwhelming by comparison to expectations but no reason he can't reach the expected heights for mine

I’m not too sure about that. He will be 26 next season, not too many players make a big leap in their 26th year.

He may well benefit from having some more mobile forwards around him. Cameron and HH as the two marking forwards, he gets to focus on what he is best at, rather than trying to run around chasing people m.

 

[dlanod]

I’m not too sure about that. He will be 26 next season, not too many players make a big leap in their 26th year.

He may well benefit from having some more mobile forwards around him. Cameron and HH as the two marking forwards, he gets to focus on what he is best at, rather than trying to run around chasing people m.

Hawkins was considered to have broken out in 2012 at age 24.

He averaged less goals than Jezza did in either 2013 (19) or 2015 (21).

I think perceptions of Cameron are tainted by the fact that we literally didn't have any other options in those early years. Our second highest goal kicker in 2013 was Smith with 16, followed by Giles (!) and then O'hAilpin (!!!). McCarthy had a decent year in 2015 (35 goals) but again the depth after him was limited with no one else kicking over 20 goals (6 players kicked 10-19).

Last year three players kicked over 20, with HH almost matching McCarthy's total, and nine (!) players kicking 10-19 goals. Ignoring 2017 when Cameron was hampered by injury, in 2016 we had six players kick over 20 goals and another seven kick 10-19. In all of these seasons he's averaged 2.5 goals a game, which is a very good mark in this era.

Basically I think Cameron is already an elite forward, but we don't see it that way because of his unusually early development (his second season is basically unprecedented) and the change and improvement of our team (why kick it to Cameron 30 times a game if it means we get an isolated HH, Greene or other small elsewhere?).

FWIW in the last two years Cameron has also increased his disposals by 50% a game, which a) strongly suggests that he's playing further out from goal, but b) he's doing so without impacting his goal scoring. That's impressive in its own right.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I’m not too sure about that. He will be 26 next season, not too many players make a big leap in their 26th year.

He may well benefit from having some more mobile forwards around him. Cameron and HH as the two marking forwards, he gets to focus on what he is best at, rather than trying to run around chasing people m.

I wouldn't discount the value in him providing defensive pressure. His speed means value in that area. That capability allows us to play three talls, possibly Flynn forward next year.

If Jezza kicks 30 goals and plays up the ground a lot, forming the defensive zone when needed I'm good. It seems the trend in the game where teams try to isolate a strong contested player deep forward, one on one, as a target anyway. For us that's mostly been Toby or Cogs. Jezza seems best using his speed and mobility to find space to me.

 

[Determinant]

I’m not too sure about that. He will be 26 next season, not too many players make a big leap in their 26th year.

He may well benefit from having some more mobile forwards around him. Cameron and HH as the two marking forwards, he gets to focus on what he is best at, rather than trying to run around chasing people m.

I was more referring to entering the peak age bracket rather than expecting any big leaps.
Below are the top 10 goal kickers for last year by average goals per game played.
He is in the bottom age group for it so looks very good for years to come, and I'd expect him to get better for the next 3 or 4 years at least.

 

[Determinant]

I’m not too sure about that. He will be 26 next season, not too many players make a big leap in their 26th year.

He may well benefit from having some more mobile forwards around him. Cameron and HH as the two marking forwards, he gets to focus on what he is best at, rather than trying to run around chasing people m.

I was more referring to entering the peak age bracket rather than expecting any big leaps.
Below are the top 10 goal kickers for last year by average goals per game played.
He is in the bottom age group for it so looks very good for years to come, and I'd expect him to get better for the next 3 or 4 years at least.

 

[Danny88]

I think the Jezza discussion comes down to.... is he a must keep player? Or would other teams be better with him? I think the answer is absolutely

He is our premier forward option. His development up the ground has been brilliant and he has added a number of new facets like forward pressure to his game.

I couldn’t be happier with him. I think this year the difference might be we actually get to play our premier first choice forward line... this I think will be the difference

Over the last two years injury/suspension has hurt that forward line

 

[dlanod]

I think this year the difference might be we actually get to play our premier first choice forward line

Minus Patton.

 

[Danny88]

Minus Patton.

My first choice wouldn’t have three talls and Greene in it

 

[dlanod]

My first choice wouldn’t have three talls and Greene in it

I suspect lacking Patton might make it your premier first choice forward line, but going off team selections it might not be shared more generally.

It'll be interesting to see if the attack looks more dynamic missing him and Lobb this year.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Cameron confident of retaining out-of-contract stars - http://m.afl.com.au/news/2019-01-31/cameron-confident-of-retaining-outofcontract-stars

Fingers crossed

 

[Danny88]

It will be a long season of speculation if we don’t get a few off the list shortly

Hopefully this isn’t posturing and it’s genuine

 

[combaning]

We'll lose a couple more stars and at least one high draft pick at the end of the season.

The good news is we keep on getting high draft picks to compensate and some of them will fill the shoes and spread the age of the playing list. Plus there is nothing wrong with a few diamonds in the rough making their way through either.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

We'll lose a couple more stars and at least one high draft pick at the end of the season.

The good news is we keep on getting high draft picks to compensate and some of them will fill the shoes and spread the age of the playing list. Plus there is nothing wrong with a few diamonds in the rough making their way through either.

Maybe not but who knows.

The good news is as you said trading back into the draft spreads the age profile and extends the time before we need to use the "R" word. I'd be very confident Adrian Caruso and Emma Quayle can make the most of the opportunity.

The bad news is losing a star increases the risk we wont have a flag or two before we get there.

That's how I see it anyway.

 

[combaning]

Maybe not but who knows.

The good news is as you said trading back into the draft spreads the age profile and extends the time before we need to use the "R" word. I'd be very confident Adrian Caruso and Emma Quayle can make the most of the opportunity.

The bad news is losing a star increases the risk we wont have a flag or two before we get there.

That's how I see it anyway.

Perhaps. Who knows. We haven't won one yet with a list of A-graders. Maybe a few more role players might be what we need?