Politics Pros and Cons of modern western civilisation

Do the pros of western civilisation outweigh the cons?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 90.3%
  • No

    Votes: 3 9.7%

  • Total voters
    31
Oct 2, 2007
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Perth
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Carlton
Can you show evidence of this? Repeating this every second post with nothing else is growing tiresome.

You want evidence that ethnic nationalism was the cause of the Armenian and Jewish genocides of the 20th century?

Ethnic nationalism has been the cause of literally 99 percent of genocides. I can only really think of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia being an exception from memory, and that genocide was grounded in hardline Communism. You could also point to Stalin, but there was an element of ethnic nationalism in the gulags as well.
 

its free real estate

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Look what ethnic nationalism gets you.

Yet you support it.
A home state of your own, where you get to make laws according to your culture and have defined borders that other powers will (mostly) respect. Sounds pretty sweet!

What do multi ethnic states get you? China is a multi ethnic state, how is that going for the non-Han ethnicities?
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Perth
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Carlton
That he is a white supremacist who spends all his time on stormfront and wants all coloured people to die etc.

Dude, that wasnt the post you quoted. But he's literally been posting in support of ethnic nationalism in this very thread. In other threads he's also posted his belief that there are 'discrete biological races' each with 'racial traits', that Europe is 'superior' to the the rest of the world, and the root cause of that superiority is the 'white race' that inhabit it.

He also is incredibly sympathetic to the point of being an apologist for the Nazis and Germans.

I'll let you connect the dots.

For what its worth, this isnt his first appearance on these forums. Prior incarnations have gone further (but he's learnt to be oblique now and not directly advocate for white nationalism).

He knows what he's doing and what he thinks. I'm just letting him know I'm onto him.
 
A home state of your own, where you get to make laws according to your culture and have defined borders that other powers will (mostly) respect. Sounds pretty sweet!

What do multi ethnic states get you? China is a multi ethnic state, how is that going for the non-Han ethnicities?
Isn't China like 95% Han and the rest of the population is Chinese through acquisitions reclaimations of traditional chinese homelands like Tibet & Sinkiang?
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Perth
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Carlton
A home state of your own, where you get to make laws according to your culture and have defined borders that other powers will (mostly) respect. Sounds pretty sweet!

What should be done about the 'non whites' already here?

I bet it's something like disenfranchisement, special laws, forced repatriation, and then... a more 'final solution'?

What do multi ethnic states get you? China is a multi ethnic state, how is that going for the non-Han ethnicities?

And whats the cause of that conflict? Ethnic ******* nationalism.

Which you support.
 

its free real estate

it's free real estate
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What should be done about the 'non whites' already here?

I bet it's something like disenfranchisement, special laws, forced repatriation, and then... a more 'final solution'?

If we had troublesome Prussians here that Germany wanted to Anschluss, yeah sure.

And whats the cause of that conflict? Ethnic ******* nationalism.

Which you support.
So you would be opposed to an East Turkestan homeland?

“Free Tibet”? No Tibetans should just stop being so nationalist.
 

its free real estate

it's free real estate
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I mean Malifice, let’s imagine 15% of Australia was hellbent on some kind of separatism, with an allegiance to or support from a foreign country. What would you do?

PS “I’d just quote the Wikipedia page for Liberalism at them until they realised they were wrong” is not an answer.
 

smokingjacket

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Japan is not mono-ethnic. It's actually a conglomeration of multiple ethnic groups. There are a million Koreans living there, and half a million Chinese people, a quarter million Filipinos, 250,000 Brazillians, plus the Ainu, Ryukuans, Burakumin and other ethnic groups in addition to the Yamato. In addition anyone (regardless of race) is considered 'Japanese' in the census if they're Japanese citizens:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Mainland_Chinese_people

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan

While they certainly have very (very) low immigration, the numbers are a little misleading.
Did you read those wiki articles? They seem to suggest that even if you include the indigenous people of Japan as non-Japanese ethnic groups that're outside of Japanese society (pretty easy to poke holes in that), and using the most charitable numbers that include students as living in Japan, it still come out at 96% "Japanese" society. What's a non-homogeneous society look like to you?

And this is what low immigration gets you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Japan

Dont know about you, but that doesnt sound very sustainable.
Not sure I would do it in Australia but actually I find it admirable that the Japanese government is committed to a whole society approach to fixing their demographic problem. The issue is a declining birth rate, immigration is bandaid to fix the problem of why your people are failing to reproduce.
And it's a bit of a joke to call Japan 'peaceful'. They only reason they're 'peaceful' is due to the Constitution foisted on them by the USA after the Japanese invaded all of Asia in WW2 that forbids them from having a Military at all. Seventy years ago they were bombing Darwin FFS.
And now they're not. Seventy years is a long enough data set to test if ethno-nationalist states are inherently violent to their neighbours or their own citizens.
 

smokingjacket

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Borders on racism to suggest they only reason the Japanese are peaceful is because theyre forced to be.
As the twitter-girls like to say, Mal is erasing the millions of Japanese people who fought and continue to fight for a pacifist Japan and a world without another Hiroshima in line with their cultural and political beliefs.
 
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Any chance this thread can be cleaned up of the off topic stuff and accusations of which poster has frequented Stormfront the most? Can't we have a discussion about the pros and cons of Western civilisation without 200 posts on nationalism?

I assume if my report went to Malifice it fell on deaf ears because I heard nothing back. ShanDog Chief
 

Brunswick Trap King

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And, how can liberalism have won the war and settled the peace when the terms involve strict coercion?
Liberalism has been embraced all around the world by nations whose leaders deposed by imperialism. I bet the Iraqis will be forever grateful of their introduction to it.
As the twitter-girls like to say, Mal is erasing the millions of Japanese people who fought and continue to fight for a pacifist Japan and a world without another Hiroshima in line with their cultural and political beliefs.
Yep. Unlike neutral countries like the Swiss, the naturally violent Japanese would still be at war if given the chance.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Perth
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Carlton
Did you read those wiki articles? They seem to suggest that even if you include the indigenous people of Japan as non-Japanese ethnic groups that're outside of Japanese society (pretty easy to poke holes in that), and using the most charitable numbers that include students as living in Japan, it still come out at 96% "Japanese" society. What's a non-homogeneous society look like to you?

And the same articles state that 'Japanese' counts people who are naturalized Japanese citizens, regardless of race. Exact numbers are hard to tell (there are a million or more Koreans for example, many with Japanese names who are naturalized Japanese citizens, and thus 'Japanese'.)

Its certainly homogeneous though.

Not sure I would do it in Australia but actually I find it admirable that the Japanese government is committed to a whole society approach to fixing their demographic problem.

And what is that fix to the demographic problem? Their population is dropping (and aging) rapidly.

And now they're not. Seventy years is a long enough data set to test if ethno-nationalist states are inherently violent to their neighbours or their own citizens.

Mate, they're constitutionally forbidden from having an Army. Article 9 of their constitution forbids them from having "land, sea, or air forces or other war potential." The USA basically provided their defense for the first few decades after the war, and continued (and still continues) to occupy Japan.

That said, Japan is Japan and they've had a strong warrior culture for centuries. Gradually over the past 70 years since WW2 finished, they're getting more militaristic again:

In 2007, Prime Minister Shinzō Abe said that Japan's constitution did not necessarily ban possession of nuclear weapons, so long as they were kept at a minimum and were tactical weapons, and Chief Cabinet Secretary Yasuo Fukuda expressed a similar view.[34]

On 18, September 2015, the National Diet enacted the 2015 Japanese military legislation, a series of laws that allow Japan's Self-Defense Forces to collective self-defense of allies in combat for the first time under its constitution. The Self-Defense Forces may provide material support to allies engaged in combat internationally. It also allows JSDF troops to defend weapons platforms of foreign countries that contribute to Japan’s defense. The justification is that by not defending/supporting an ally, it would weaken alliances and endanger Japan. These were Japan's broadest changes to its defense laws since World War II.[35]

The JSDF Act was amended in 2015 in order to make it illegal for JSDF personnel/staff to participate in collective insubordination or to command forces without authority or in violation of orders, which was stated to be the reason why Japan was involved in China in World War II.[36]

A Credit Suisse survey published in 2015 ranked Japan as the world’s fourth most-powerful military behind the United States, Russia and China.

In May 2017, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe set a 2020 deadline for revising the Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution, a clause in the national Constitution of Japan outlawing war as a means to settle international disputes involving the state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces#Early_developments_(1945–2000)

They're literally about to revoke article 9 of their Constitution, allowing War and force projection. There is also some really worrying noises coming out of Japan about nuclear weapons (and they could make one tomorrow if they wanted to).
 
Borders on racism to suggest they only reason the Japanese are peaceful is because theyre forced to be.
It's not exactly totally disconnected from reality, seeing as the catalyst for them abandoning their expansionist and imperialistic dreams was the fact they tried to make them a reality and lost. Who knows what modern Japan would have been if they didn't surrender to the US in 1945, even if they had have surrendered to the Soviet Union instead things may still have been very different.

It's arguable whether Japan was ever really ethnically nationalist, though.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Carlton
Borders on racism to suggest they only reason the Japanese are peaceful is because theyre forced to be.

It's racism to suggest Japanese people (as an ethnic group) are 'inherently warlike'.

Saying 'the Nation of Japan has experienced a long period of relative period of peace and non-aggression since WW 2 because it's constitutionally prohibited from going to War or having a Military' is a totally different thing entirely.

Japan (as a Nation) has also had a strong warrior culture. Bushido and Samurai and all that.
 

Brunswick Trap King

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It's not exactly totally disconnected from reality, seeing as the catalyst for them abandoning their expansionist and imperialistic dreams was the fact they tried to make them a reality and lost. Who knows what modern Japan would have been if they didn't surrender to the US in 1945, even if they had have surrendered to the Soviet Union instead things may still have been very different.

It's arguable whether Japan was ever really ethnically nationalist, though.
The British essentially led a Bengali genocide 70 years ago. If Japan is to be the same as they were 70 years ago, it means that Britain would so the same today.
 

Brunswick Trap King

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It's racism to suggest Japanese people (as an ethnic group) are 'inherently warlike'.

Saying 'the Nation of Japan has experienced a long period of relative period of peace and non-aggression since WW 2 because it's constitutionally prohibited from going to War or having a Military' is a totally different thing entirely.

Japan (as a Nation) has also had a strong warrior culture. Bushido and Samurai and all that.
It is definitely racist to suggest that without prohibition there is no way the Japanese could be peaceful today.
 
Oct 2, 2007
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Perth
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Carlton
The British essentially led a Bengali genocide 70 years ago. If Japan is to be the same as they were 70 years ago, it means that Britain would so the same today.

Britain voluntarily renounced it's Empire, allowed self determination of its various colonies and imperial acquisitions and stopped being imperialistic war mongers on its own accord.

The only reason Japan did, is because they lost a war, and got forced to ditch their Empire by the USA.

Slightly different context.
 

Brunswick Trap King

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Britain voluntarily renounced it's Empire, allowed self determination of its various colonies and imperial acquisitions and stopped being imperialistic war mongers on its own accord.

The only reason Japan did, is because they lost a war, and got forced to ditch their Empire by the USA.

Slightly different context.
Once again you're suggesting that the Japanese culture isn't humane enough to have become more peaceful over a period of 70 years while multiple other nations have.
 
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