Politics Climate Change Paradox (cont in part 2)

[Seeds]

When will the left accept that when the wind doesn't blow or blows too hard and the sun doesn't shine solar and wind don't work ?

We need the government to build some coal fire power stations or we will have more blackouts, higher electricity costs, business going broke or not wanting to invest in Australia and jobs will be lost.

Thats already factored into their cost and batteries are now inexpensive so they are now capable of base load.

 

[Frank Bunn]

Thats already factored into their cost and batteries are now inexpensive so they are now capable of base load.

Tesla Powerwall costs between $10k and $11.5k per household. That's a very inefficient and expensive way to achieve base load power. There's about 2 million occupied private dwellings in Victoria. That's over $20 billion in Victoria alone on top of the cost of gathering the energy such as solar panels.

Then of course you still require coal power as back up for when the sun doesn't get through the clouds for a couple of days.

 

[Seeds]

Tesla Powerwall costs between $10k and $11.5k per household. That's a very inefficient and expensive way to achieve base load power. There's about 2 million occupied private dwellings in Victoria. That's over $20 billion in Victoria alone on top of the cost of gathering the energy such as solar panels.

Then of course you still require coal power as back up for when the sun doesn't get through the clouds for a couple of days.

That doesnt mean anything unless you also add the cost of solar panels and then take a levilized cost of the two and compare it to your power prices you get from the grid. If you do that you will find grid prices still cheaper. However, given the rate of decline in batteries and solar panel costs the levilized cost of such a rig is likely to be cheaper then grid power by around 2025-30. And once that happens its game over for fossil fuel power.

 

[Power Raid]

Developing Africa wouldn't be "business as usual". Pretty clear that reining in China (especially) and India will lead to a global decrease, without e.g. Germany's $64b plan to go full renewables.

$64b?

Isn’t Germany committed to one trillion in subsidies by 2030 alone? With 500 billion in subsidies to date?

 

[M Malice]

No matter what happens our power bills will go up and up in perpetuity.

 

[Dazlington]

Incredibly simple solution to the issue. As one of the worlds largest miners of uranium why we don’t have a number of nuclear power plants to provide cheap clean energy is beyond me. Problem solved

Build it in south Australia as that place looks like a nuclear bomb hit it (well at least the “fans” at Adelaide oval and the hicks on hindley street do)

 

[Ron The Bear]

$64b?

Isn’t Germany committed to one trillion in subsidies by 2030 alone? With 500 billion in subsidies to date?

Maybe. Was going by this.

German plan to phase out coal would cost a cool $64 billion

 

[Kwality]

That doesnt mean anything unless you also add the cost of solar panels and then take a levilized cost of the two and compare it to your power prices you get from the grid. If you do that you will find grid prices still cheaper. However, given the rate of decline in batteries and solar panel costs the levilized cost of such a rig is likely to be cheaper then grid power by around 2025-30. And once that happens its game over for fossil fuel power.

Reality is that batteries are proven, BUT still too expensive for most of us - they've got a long way to go as you have acknowledged 2025 - 2030.
As houses become self sufficent they will cut the umbilical cord, not needing base load for when the wind doesnt blow, the sun doesnt shine.

2025 - 2030 might be a bit optimistic.

 

[Power Raid]

Maybe. Was going by this.

German plan to phase out coal would cost a cool $64 billion

the $64b relates to compensation to regions hardest hit by the closure.

$1.5 Trillion is expected to reduce CO2 to a level that is 10-15 WORSE than France

 

[Benny78]

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/po...great-barrier-reef-plans-20190227-p510mp.html

Typical of this country

 

[Donakebab]

Hottest Australian summer on record.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-28/summer-hottest-on-record-autumn-outlook/10833800

* all you ignorant assholes who think it's a hoax. And don't start up with the same old lines always trotted out. The evidence is in, climate change accelerated by man is indisputable. Change is needed now, we can be the generations that are remembered for being the ones who turned the tide, or we can be seen to have sat on our hands and doomed those to come.

 

[Fat Yak]

“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” E. Hoffer (1967)

Big Oil is a driver and beneficiary of the Climate Change campaign.

https://saltbushclub.com/2019/01/24/big-oil-fuels-climate-campaign/#more-257

 

[medusala]

**** all you ignorant assholes who think it's a hoax. And don't start up with the same old lines always trotted out. The evidence is in, climate change accelerated by man is indisputable. Change is needed now, we can be the generations that are remembered for being the ones who turned the tide, or we can be seen to have sat on our hands and doomed those to come.

OK then. What can Australia do that will actually have an affect on global temperatures?

Simple question.

 

[medusala]

“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.” E. Hoffer (1967)

Big Oil is a driver and beneficiary of the Climate Change campaign.

https://saltbushclub.com/2019/01/24/big-oil-fuels-climate-campaign/#more-257

Gazprom is funding anti fracking protests in Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...ing-with-environmentalists-to-oppose-fracking

 

[Donakebab]

OK then. What can Australia do that will actually have an affect on global temperatures?

Simple question.

Set an example.
Not open up a ridiculous new coal mine.
Prohibit offshore drilling in the Great Australian Bight.
Properly tax high emitters.
Move towards renewables which are actually more beneficial for the economy.
Shut down coal mines which not only reduce carbon foot print but also reduces local pollution levels.


Do things as individuals such as reducing use of plastics.
Recycle more efficiently.
Green commute with ride share/public transport.
Use energy efficient devices/light globes.
Wash with cold water.
Air dry clothes.
Invest away from fossil fuels/move super to green friendly funds.

We can do an absolute shitload more than we already are and it won't hamstring individuals or the economy, in fact it will be good for it, the wider environment and our own little pocket of the world.

Or do nothing and watch the world burn.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Recycle more efficiently.

I go to considerable effort to comply with recycling guidelines, only for my far left wing council to dump it all in landfill.

 

[Donakebab]

I go to considerable effort to comply with recycling guidelines, only for my far left wing council to dump it all in landfill.

Have to agree the current recycling issues with councils is super s**t, but there's far more to recycling than simply putting it in your wheelie bin.

 

[medusala]

Set an example.

Setting an example wont have any material effect on global temperatures though.

 

[Donakebab]

Setting an example wont have any material effect on global temperatures though.

Aside from ignoring the rest, it's this exact attitude that will sink us all. The impact I can make as an individual/family/city/country won't have a noticeable difference globally so why bother.

Meanwhile one of the worlds largest polluters in India is making greater strides than Australia towards the Paris agreement and China is leading the world in renewable developments and projects. But yeah * it lets do nothing.

 

[medusala]

Aside from ignoring the rest, it's this exact attitude that will sink us all. The impact I can make as an individual/family/city/country won't have a noticeable difference globally so why bother.

Recycling will (councils permitting). However, things like different light bulbs are dubious. Due to wonderful EU rules, i cant buy a decent light bulb, so now instead of having one 100w light on in my living room i have 3 x 60w lights on.

 

[Donakebab]

Also setting an example by preventing the Carmichael coal mine alone would have a material effect on global temperatures.

 

[Donakebab]

Recycling will (councils permitting). However, things like different light bulbs are dubious. Due to wonderful EU rules, i cant buy a decent light bulb, so now instead of having one 100w light on in my living room i have 3 x 60w lights on.

How are lightbulbs dubious when you can transition to LED's which use roughly 75% less energy and last anywhere from 10 to 25 times longer?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Hottest Australian summer on record.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-28/summer-hottest-on-record-autumn-outlook/10833800

**** all you ignorant assholes who think it's a hoax. And don't start up with the same old lines always trotted out. The evidence is in, climate change accelerated by man is indisputable. Change is needed now, we can be the generations that are remembered for being the ones who turned the tide, or we can be seen to have sat on our hands and doomed those to come.

It's your open analytical mind willing to engage in debate that's most impressive.

 

[its free real estate]

Climate change mitigation should be the full gamut, not just what is trendy to liberal-lefties. Australia could cut emissions to zero and climate change would continue apace. Therefore we should be preparing to deal with the effects of climate change, and part of that means harsher, more austere measures. Can the welfare state survive in a climate changed world? Should we be a high immigration country when water here is scarce and likely scarcer as the planet warms?

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Climate change mitigation should be the full gamut, not just what is trendy to liberal-lefties. Australia could cut emissions to zero and climate change would continue apace. Therefore we should be preparing to deal with the effects of climate change, and part of that means harsher, more austere measures. Can the welfare state survive in a climate changed world? Should we be a high immigration country when water here is scarce and likely scarcer as the planet warms?

Do you have any data that suggests a drier climate as it warms?