Zidane and Moomba's FFP chat.

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The FA won't be able to use most of it.

It was obtained illegally.

Much of it is legally privileged.

There's no context, and no way of proving that the material hasn't been altered, or made up.

I'd say that despite the sensationalism in Der Spiegel a lot of the material contains information already known to the authorities.

Unless Football Leaks were prepared to burn their sources the 70m documents are no more than gossip legally speaking.

If I was the FA I'd want a nosy anyway, just for interests sake. See what clubs are doing. But there's not much they can do with it.
 

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UEFA are not beholden to a court of law so it should not matter how the documents were obtained. Just whether they are legitimate or not. And they can do something - ban cheats like PSG / City for next season's CL.
Of course they are. If they charge a club using inadmissable material and that club appeals to CAS or higher they'll win.

And the FA will have wasted a small fortune on the exercise.

Unless Football Leaks hand over all of their material, and provide detail of how it was obtained they'll have an impossible time proving the docs are legitimate let alone admissable.
 
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The FA won't be able to use most of it.

It was obtained illegally.

Much of it is legally privileged.

There's no context, and no way of proving that the material hasn't been altered, or made up.

I'd say that despite the sensationalism in Der Spiegel a lot of the material contains information already known to the authorities.

Unless Football Leaks were prepared to burn their sources the 70m documents are no more than gossip legally speaking.

If I was the FA I'd want a nosy anyway, just for interests sake. See what clubs are doing. But there's not much they can do with it.
I was more reading it from the view that the governing bodies don't really give a s**t about ffp breaches by financially wealthy clubs.

I think the evidence to date shows that they would rather punish middling to lower teams instead.
 

WealstoneRaider

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Lol these ffp discussions on here always follow the same narrative. Moomba do you practice law by any chance?
 
I was more reading it from the view that the governing bodies don't really give a s**t about ffp breaches by financially wealthy clubs.

I think the evidence to date shows that they would rather punish middling to lower teams instead.
I suspect it's all a bit hard for the FA. 70m docs uses a lot of resources and I think they'd rather it all go away.

I'm not sure there's much info there that would prove an FA offence anyway.

UEFA might be more inclined to have a look but my gut feeling is they'd rather it all go away too.
 
Lol these ffp discussions on here always follow the same narrative. Moomba do you practice law by any chance?
The same narrative of you not contributing anything to the discussion apart from having a go at me.

Don't worry, I'm not planning to sue.
 
Dec 22, 2009
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Of course they are. If they charge a club using inadmissable material and that club appeals to CAS or higher they'll win.

And the FA will have wasted a small fortune doing so.

Inadmissible. You make it sound like it would be heard in a criminal court. It is UEFA, they have their own disciplinary/ ethics committee or whatever it is called to decide on punishment for s**t like City / PSG are guilty of.

You can appeal to CAS but again that is more of a tribunal / arbitration type setup.

City could attempt to sue UEFA for damages in criminal court. Finding a judge to accept there is a case may be just a tad difficult though.
 
Inadmissible. You make it sound like it would be heard in a criminal court. It is UEFA, they have their own disciplinary/ ethics committee or whatever it is called to decide on punishment for s**t like City / PSG are guilty of.

You can appeal to CAS but again that is more of a tribunal / arbitration type setup.

City could attempt to sue UEFA for damages in criminal court. Finding a judge to accept there is a case may be just a tad difficult though.
You can't sue for damages in a criminal court. But you can in a civil court and UEFA, like everyone else is subject to the laws of the land and due process.
 
UEFA's disciplinary decisions are not subject to any court. They are free to use any evidence they wish.
Which they won't do because they know that when it goes to appeal where due process and judicial laws exist they'll get laughed out of court.

I'd love for them to try it. But it would cost them a packet.

And I suspect they'll be asked a whole lot more questions about FFP they don't want to answer.

TBH I think it would be the best thing for the integrity of the game. Get it all out in the open. Both sides, and then what will be will be.
 
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Dec 22, 2009
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Which they won't do because they know that when it goes to appeal where due process and judicial laws exist they'll get laughed out of court.

I'd love for them to try it. But it would cost them a packet.

And I suspect they'll be asked a whole lot more questions about FFP they don't want to answer.

TBH I think it would be the best thing for the integrity of the game. Get it all out in the open. Both sides, and then what will be will be.

The best thing for the integrity of the game would be if the likes of City / PSG didnt blatantly cheat.

The judicial system in general doesn't get involved in sporting decisions. Yet to find an example of it happening for good reason.
 

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Dec 22, 2009
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Don't know why you're so horrified of the all the facts coming out in a court case then.

Surely if we're cheating so much we'll be shown up in court and penalised accordingly.

If you weren't cheating you wouldn't have been penalised in the first place. Sporting decisions have no place in a court, unlikely any judge would even consider hearing it as it totally undermines any decision a sporting body makes. IMO City would be laughed at if they tried to appeal a penalty in a court of law.
 
If you weren't cheating you wouldn't have been penalised in the first place. Sporting decisions have no place in a court, unlikely any judge would even consider hearing it as it totally undermines any decision a sporting body makes. IMO City would be laughed at if they tried to appeal a penalty in a court of law.
As you say, we've been punished. And we didn't take it further so we just have to accept that.

But you want us punished further, so surely you've got to prove we've done something against the rules.

Gut feeling, suspicion and just plain wanting it to happen isn't proof. So let's see UEFA investigate, if they do hopefully they'll make a case and then we'll see if I'm right or you are.

BTW, if Suarez didn't racially abuse Evra he wouldn't have been penalised for it. Am I right?
 
Dec 22, 2009
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As you say, we've been punished. And we didn't take it further so we just have to accept that.

But you want us punished further, so surely you've got to prove we've done something against the rules.

Gut feeling, suspicion and just plain wanting it to happen isn't proof. So let's see UEFA investigate, if they do hopefully they'll make a case and then we'll see if I'm right or you are.

BTW, if Suarez didn't racially abuse Evra he wouldn't have been penalised for it. Am I right?

Standard deflection, most reasonable fans want City penalised because of the attitude that your club doesn't seem to think FFP rules apply to it and deliberately present inflated commercial income figures that in reality are just largely funded by your owner. A systematic form of cheating that you continually condone and defend.

Btw surprising to hear you claim that John Terry isnt guilty of racially abusing Anton Ferdinand going by your deluded logic that because he was cleared in a court of law it couldn't of happened. Really surprised to hear that coming from you.
 
Btw surprising to hear you claim that John Terry isnt guilty of racially abusing Anton Ferdinand going by your deluded logic that because he was cleared in a court of law it couldn't of happened. Really surprised to hear that coming from you.

Very surprising to hear me claim that because I never did. What I did do is point out the absurdity of your "you were punished so you must have done it", and how you don't apply that rule when it suits.

The fact that what you've read has convinced you that we deliberately presented artificially inflated commercial deals funded by our owner is exactly why Der Spiegel isn't a reliable source of evidence.

And probably why UEFA aren't rushing to investigate with the same desperation as you. They may well be looking, but they'll need a little more evidence than Der Spiegel.
 
Dec 22, 2009
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Very surprising to hear me claim that because I never did. What I did do is point out the absurdity of your "you were punished so you must have done it", and how you don't apply that rule when it suits.

The fact that what you've read has convinced you that we deliberately presented artificially inflated commercial deals funded by our owner is exactly why Der Spiegel isn't a reliable source of evidence.

And probably why UEFA aren't rushing to investigate with the same desperation as you. They may well be looking, but they'll need a little more evidence than Der Spiegel.

Literally in your previous post you claimed that if there was evidence of guilt it would come up in any supposed court case. So yes you have claimed that Terry is innocent because of the fact he was cleared in a criminal court. You can't have it both ways.
 

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The “we’re not denying the content of the e-mails but so what, they were illegally acquired” defence sounds an awful lot like “the video of me murdering my wife was illegally hacked off my laptop, doesn’t matter that I’m 100% guilty, I can’t be charged”.

Assuming these e-mails aren’t forgeries (and you’d think if they were the City PR machine would’ve blown them out of the water by now), it’s extremely frustrating for fans of other clubs that there’s a distinct possibility the systematic cheating of rules everyone signed up to and agreed to abide by will go unpunished based on a technicality.
 
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