Game Day JLT opener vs GWS in Blacktown

[SlingshotFooty]

Mate, I can see you joined in 15, but I strongly urge you to have a look at our JLTs from the last three years... all of them are sh!t. Even if round 1 is not great, as long as it builds through the season, we'll be fine.

I'm very happy to back our youngsters to improve all year, and am happily backing us to make the finals... again!

I've watched every game since 2012. It's just an eye test thing for me I guess. I'm not going to say one game will define a whole season. I kind of have to throw away the interclub match against GWS too because GWS didn't seem to be working on defense at all. That being said, there was a Port game in 2013, North in 14 and 16 that were no indicative of how the season was going or went. We're also missing some walk up starters that WILL make a difference. The only thing I don't like is it seems our game plan hasn't evolved. I still think we should do no worse than 8 though.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Who else in the squad last weekend would you have played in the ruck?

All teams are going to have to rethink and tweak their ruck strategy going in to this season. It remains to be seen what effect the rule changes will have - both 6/6/6 and the increased importance of winning the centre clearances and the rules allowing rucks to take the ball out of the air, potentially spelling the end to the truly undersized players contesting the ruck that we have seen over the last few years. It might mean the return to teams playing two ruckmen, it might not.

The preseason is here to test things out. Aliir in the ruck is far from the most unreasonable decision that could be made. Certainly it makes far more sense than any of your other examples. Reality is that there are probably times he will be called on to ruck at some point through the season. Better for him to have some time doing it in a preseason match first than not.

Longmire gets slated for his alleged tactical rigidity, now you are having a sook about him using preseason matches to test out options. He just can't win with some on here.

Lol ........ Why risk our best tall defender? It is not a question of Horse being able to win here. The question is about the team winning and playing to their potential.

You may have missed the point of the examples I provided.

 

[RobbieK]

Lol ........ Why risk our best tall defender? It is not a question of Horse being able to win here. The question is about the team winning and playing to their potential.

You may have missed the point of the examples I provided.

As I said, to give him experience doing something that he will almost definitely be called upon to do this season. That's the point of practice matches. To practice.

You didn't answer my question - if it wasn't Aliir in the ruck when Sinclair was resting who should it have been? When it comes to round one, and Sinclair is possibly still the only fit ruck, who is going to take on the role when Sinclair is resting?

What was the point of the examples you gave? You had sarcastic suggestions for players to take on roles that they are completely unsuited for. Aliir is not completely unsuited to ruck - he has the size and athleticism to compete better than any other non-specialist ruckman we have.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

As I said, to give him experience doing something that he will almost definitely be called upon to do this season. That's the point of practice matches. To practice.

You didn't answer my question - if it wasn't Aliir in the ruck when Sinclair was resting who should it have been? When it comes to round one, and Sinclair is possibly still the only fit ruck, who is going to take on the role when Sinclair is resting?

What was the point of the examples you gave? You had sarcastic suggestions for players to take on roles that they are completely unsuited for. Aliir is not completely unsuited to ruck - he has the size and athleticism to compete better than any other non-specialist ruckman we have.

He looked all at sea, just as he did when playing as a forward. Could have run Pink through the ruck instead or no-one. As you say it was a practice match. Could have played A Smartie if an athletic tall was needed.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Flexibility seems to be demanded of borderline players. It is where Horse shows he innovates. At various times Dawson played as a mid, at FB and as FF against 3 defenders.

Aside from trying for less chippety chip in D50, I saw little change in the Horse system. He just shifts the fringe players around. Yes there were new midfield combos. None worked that I could see.

 

[The King!]

Flexibility seems to be demanded of borderline players. It is where Horse shows he innovates. At various times Dawson played as a mid, at FB and as FF against 3 defenders.

Aside from trying for less chippety chip in D50, I saw little change in the Horse system. He just shifts the fringe players around. Yes there were new midfield combos. None worked that I could see.

Hes played Dawson as a mid? must of blinked for that minute.

 

[RobbieK]

He looked all at sea, just as he did when playing as a forward. Could have run Pink through the ruck instead or no-one. As you say it was a practice match. Could have played A Smartie if an athletic tall was needed.

Pink did run through the ruck a few times. But is Pink going to be in the 22 come round 1? No, he isn't. Neither is Amartey. So we played a guy in the ruck in the practice match who will probably be called on to do some rucking when it comes to round 1.

We get it, you don't want Aliir to play in the ruck. But the reality is that unless Cameron is fit and warrants a place we are going to need someone to support Sinclair until Naismith gets back. If he is going to have to do it, he needs to practice it.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Hes played Dawson as a mid? must of blinked for that minute.

Mr the King, it was at a few stoppages.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Is Pink going to be in the 22 come round 1? No, he isn't. Neither is Amartey. So we played a guy in the ruck in the practice match who will probably be called on to do some rucking when it comes to round 1.

We get it, you don't want Aliir to play in the ruck. But the reality is that unless Cameron is fit and warrants a place we are going to need someone to support Sinclair until Naismith gets back. If he is going to have to do it, he needs to practice it.

Geeze, from what I saw we may as well get Ronke piggy backing Paps at ruck contests. So you think it wise to ruck our best tall defender?

 

[RobbieK]

Geeze, from what I saw we may as well get Ronke piggy backing Paps at ruck contests. So you think it wise to ruck our best tall defender?

Obviously it is not a first-choice option to have Aliir in the ruck. But we need a second choice because Sinclair can't do the whole match by himself. Aliir represented the best second choice. If he is going to be called on to do that job when the season starts it makes total sense for him to do it in practice matches. So yes, it was a wise decision.

So far your alternatives have been Pink and Amartey, neither are close to AFL game time, or Ronke on Papley's shoulders, all of which says to me that, for all you are bitching and moaning about it, you acknowledge that there isn't actually any other player to do the job. You are criticising Longmire's decision when there really is no other choice to be made. It's asinine.

 

[Tedeski]

Who else in the squad last weekend would you have played in the ruck?

All teams are going to have to rethink and tweak their ruck strategy going in to this season. It remains to be seen what effect the rule changes will have - both 6/6/6 and the increased importance of winning the centre clearances and the rules allowing rucks to take the ball out of the air, potentially spelling the end to the truly undersized players contesting the ruck that we have seen over the last few years. It might mean the return to teams playing two ruckmen, it might not.

The preseason is here to test things out. Aliir in the ruck is far from the most unreasonable decision that could be made. Certainly it makes far more sense than any of your other examples. Reality is that there are probably times he will be called on to ruck at some point through the season. Better for him to have some time doing it in a preseason match first than not.

Longmire gets slated for his alleged tactical rigidity, now you are having a sook about him using preseason matches to test out options. He just can't win with some on here.

Spot on Robbie.
The 6,6,6 formation may very well make ball clearance all the more important from the centre bounce & perhaps the thinking is that a more mobile ruckman can help with the ball moving forward as opposed to a big lumbering ruckman. So in other words Aliir with his run & dare may be more of an asset in the middle of the ground compared to down back.

But as you say, the Horse bashing has become the default mechanism on here for people that don't actually want to open their eyes.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Good grief. Don't recall 2A contesting a centre bounce. Would rather the more expendable Reid as back up.

 

[RobbieK]

Good grief. Don't recall 2A contesting a centre bounce. Would rather the more expendable Reid as back up.

Aliir did do some centre bounce rucking. How closely were you actually watching the game?

So, instead of Aliir, you would have sent in Reid, our only key forward!

At least with Aliir we have Melican and Rampe able to provide defensive cover when he shifted into the ruck, if you sent Reid in there who would have been a marking target in the forward line? Maybe you would have had Papley sit on Ronke's shoulders and move to the goal square?

This is a ridiculous conversation.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Aliir did do some centre bounce rucking. How closely were you actually watching the game?

So, instead of Aliir, you would have sent in Reid, our only key forward!

At least with Aliir we have Melican and Rampe able to provide defensive cover when he shifted into the ruck, if you sent Reid in there who would have been a marking target in the forward line? Maybe you would have had Papley sit on Ronke's shoulders and move to the goal square?

This is a ridiculous conversation.

You have been intent on making it so.

Watched the game but obviously missed 2A at centre bounces.

Prolly had my eyes wired shut.

Sinkers could have rested forward when Reid rucked. May have brought Mr Expendable into the game.

 

[TheMase]

Good grief. Don't recall 2A contesting a centre bounce. Would rather the more expendable Reid as back up.

He won one of only eight of our centre clearances when he contested one of the centre bounces...

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

So in summary, Robbie you are keen to run 2A as a relief ruck, despite him being our best tall defender.

For me 2A looked completely clueless. It risked injury to a vital player for a negligible result.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Maybe Horse sees 2A channelling LRT. I just do not see it.

LRT was able to do the pinch hitting role but for me he was a different sort of player to 2A.

 

[The King!]

Maybe Horse sees 2A channelling LRT. I just do not see it.

LRT was able to do the pinch hitting role but for me he was a different sort of player to 2A.

Horse probably wants to continue to drop expectation so finishing 8th will look like a great achievement and get him more $

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Horse probably wants to continue to drop expectation so finishing 8th will look like a great achievement and get him more $

I know you are joking about the money. Whatever his faults, Horse is no money grubber.

At present I think 8 would be an achievement. Even then we need a lot to go right.

 

[MarkP]

I know you are joking about the money. Whatever his faults, Horse is no money grubber.

At present I think 8 would be an achievement. Even then we need a lot to go right.

Steady on. Horse owes me $20.

But I agree. Sneaking into the 8 is my guess at our ceiling this year.

 

[Kirkswan]

So in summary, Robbie you are keen to run 2A as a relief ruck, despite him being our best tall defender.

For me 2A looked completely clueless. It risked injury to a vital player for a negligible result.

Why would you say "you are keen to run 2A as a relief ruck" when he said "Obviously it is not a first-choice option to have Aliir in the ruck"? You've completely misrepresented what he said to suit your own purposes, and its a very regular occurrence. Does nothing for your credibility...

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Oh dear. Thank you Ms Pangloss. Yes you are right and I bowdlerised Robbie's argument. I still think it is inappropriate to play our best tall in the ruck

No offence but credibility in your eyes is not a lofty height I could ever aspire to. The

 

[caesar88]

Who else in the squad last weekend would you have played in the ruck?

All teams are going to have to rethink and tweak their ruck strategy going in to this season. It remains to be seen what effect the rule changes will have - both 6/6/6 and the increased importance of winning the centre clearances and the rules allowing rucks to take the ball out of the air, potentially spelling the end to the truly undersized players contesting the ruck that we have seen over the last few years. It might mean the return to teams playing two ruckmen, it might not.

The preseason is here to test things out. Aliir in the ruck is far from the most unreasonable decision that could be made. Certainly it makes far more sense than any of your other examples. Reality is that there are probably times he will be called on to ruck at some point through the season. Better for him to have some time doing it in a preseason match first than not.

Longmire gets slated for his alleged tactical rigidity, now you are having a sook about him using preseason matches to test out options. He just can't win with some on here.

Reid.

 

[RobbieK]

Reid.

As I said to B52:

1. Aliir is more physically robust than Reid.
2. Aliir had more cover from felow tall defenders in Melican and Rampe. You can add in Grundy too. We have limited key forward options - Reid and Franklin is it.

You guys are the same who bag out Longmire for being too defensive yeah? For having a terrible forward structure? But you want him to use the only key forward we had available in the ruck rather than one of a few key defenders?

Aliir is not a ruckman. But given the makeup of the team last week, and the likely makeup of the team in the early rounds as we wait for some key players to come back in to the team, unless Cameron is getting selected I don't see a better option for providing support to Sinclair.

 

[Punts]

Sundays team looks almost full strength